A quick primer in to Canadian gun laws

[Cunuckgaucho]

I was asked in another thread(which I failed to read properly/completely) for a basic explanation how gun laws work here in Canada.

I'm not a lawyer but I'll do my best.

As this is a basic overview,feel free to asked for more clarification or about things I haven't answered.

The most obvious thing is in Canada there is nothing resembling the 2nd Amendment.

In Canada,firearm law is a federal jurisdiction so in theory it's the same law regardless of which province your in. The reality is some provinces are less friendly imposing extra hurdles or being slow at processing things.

There are three classification of firearms licence in Canada.

  (1) Prohibited-no longer issued but folks that possessed firearms in this class were grandfathered.

 (2) Restricted- Allows possession of restricted class firearms(see below). To get this requires a 2 day course with a written/practical test. This along with your application is submitted along with two references. It then sits for a minimum of 28 days before being proceeded.   Actual time can vary with  no rhyme or reason .

Restricted firearms are:

• Any handgun that is not prohibited (note: handguns are prohibited if the barrel length is inferior to 105 millimetres (4.1 in); handguns cannot be non-restricted)
• Any firearm that is:

• not prohibited
• that has a barrel length inferior to 470 millimetres (18.5 in), and
• is capable of operating in a semi-automatic manner

• Any firearm that can be fired when the overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping, or other means to less than 660 millimetres (26 in)
• Firearms prescribed as restricted by the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (SOR/98-462)
• Note: legally, restricted firearms can only be discharged at shooting ranges; so while one can use them in competitions, one cannot use them for hunting

(3) Non-Restricted-Allows possession of firearms that are not considered prohibited or restricted ( rifles and shotguns unless restricted by name such as the AR

Magazine capacity-

 Note- there are exceptions to these laws

.22 cal pistols-10 rds maximium

             rifles-no magazine restriction unless by name.

 Centrefire(manual operation) no magazine limit unless by name.

Centrefire(semi) 5 rds, but if a magazine designed for a different firearm and higher capacity functions in a semi auto rifle without altering it's legal to use. ie my AR uses 10 rd LAR -15 magazine legally.

Storage-

  Non-restricted firearms must be unloaded and either:

• Made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock); or
• Have bolts or bolt-carriers removed; or
• Securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into
• Except if: (1) in areas where it is legal to fire a gun, non-restricted firearms needed for predator control can temporarily be left unlocked and operable, but they must be kept unloaded and all ammunition must be stored separately, and (2) in wilderness areas, non-restricted firearms can be left unlocked and/or operable, but must be left unloaded (ammunition may be kept nearby).

Restricted firearms must be unloaded and either:

• Made inoperable with a secure locking device (such as a trigger lock) and securely locked in a sturdy container, cabinet or room that cannot be easily broken into; or
• Locked in a vault, safe or room that was built or adapted for storing these types of firearms
• For automatic firearms, the bolt(s) or bolt-carrier(s) must be removed, if removable, and stored in a separate locked room that cannot be easily broken into

Purchasing-

 Restricted requires a restricted licence(RPAL),upon purchases the seller must initiate a transfer of ownership before the firearm can be handed over. The time it take varies from province to province. If I purchase the seller can mail directly to me so FFL to deal with.

Non-restricted requires a PAL(Possession  Acquisition Licence) and all that's required is the seller see the PAL and can hand over the firearm ,no registration needed.

 

TLDR- Canadian firearms law sucks. If your wondering about a specific firearm or how it compares to specific American law please ask

 

[sketch]

thanks.1: question about grandfatherd.. could it be passed down to family members if the original owner has passed? 2:  do you have a trust system such as the us. where said items are not owened by a person but a trust/ llc? id guess this is similar to your RPAL/ PAl? 

[unforgiven]

What is crime like over there ?

[Robocop1051]

I was lead to believe there was no barrel restriction on shotguns. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

20 hours ago, sketch said:

thanks.1: question about grandfatherd.. could it be passed down to family members if the original owner has passed? 2:  do you have a trust system such as the us. where said items are not owened by a person but a trust/ llc? id guess this is similar to your RPAL/ PAl? 

Having a prohibited endorsement is commonly call a 12(x) and the below copy/paste shows why.As to passing on a prohibited firearm there are restriction and only some are allowed.(see 12(6) conditions and Exception to Grandfathering below)

We don't have a trust system here for the possession of prohibited firearms. The closest thing would be a business licence (museum, manufacture,dealer) but the application would be examined and if the authorities felt otherwise could easily decline it. 

 

As a general rule, a PAL will indicate what prohibited firearms the licence holder is licensed to acquire by showing the section of the Firearms Act that grandfathers them, as follows:

• s.12(2): full automatics
• s.12(3): converted automatics
• s.12(4): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 12
• s.12(5): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 13
• s.12(6): handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition. On licences issued on or after April 10, 2005, these firearms will be referred to as 12(6.1) firearms.

Eligibility to acquire a particular prohibited firearm will be confirmed during the transfer process. Grandfathered status allows the possession and acquisition of prohibited firearms that are already registered in Canada, but not the new importation of prohibited firearms into Canada.

Maintaining grandfathered privileges

To stay grandfathered for a particular category of prohibited firearm, an individual must have continuously held a registration certificate for a firearm in that category from December 1, 1998, onward. To be able to hold a registration certificate for a firearm, an individual needs a licence allowing them to possess that class of firearm. It is therefore essential that firearms licences be renewed before they expire.

All registration certificates issued under the former law (prior to December 1, 1998) expired on December 31, 2002, so it was important to have re-registered the firearm(s) under the Firearms Act before the old certificate expired. Contact the CFP for more information or assistance.

Exception to grandfathering

If a person is not grandfathered, the only prohibited firearms they may possess or acquire are handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition, and only if all of the following criteria are met:

• the handgun was made before 1946, and
• the handgun was registered in Canada on December 1, 1998, and
• the individual is the child, grandchild, brother, sister or spouse of the lawful owner, and
• the individual is acquiring it for an approved purpose such as target shooting or as part of a collection.

Under these circumstances, the individual can lawfully acquire and possess the handgun in question, but they are not grandfathered or authorized to acquire more prohibited handguns.

[Cunuckgaucho]

12 hours ago, unforgiven said:

What is crime like over there ?

Where I live it's relatively safe,the biggest crime issue is property theft mostly due to junkies.

Overall Canada averages 1,300 firearms death a year 80% are suicide,12% homicide the balance unintentional deaths.

Here's a search engine listing the various cities in Canada,how they rank and type of crimes.

 http://www.macleans.ca/canadas-most-dangerous-places/

 

[sketch]

so the next gen will not get much of anything.. or raped with paper work.. sounds like a fiasco. glad you are on the fighting chance side of things! you will be welcome on the us side if you can be! keep up the fight.

[Cunuckgaucho]

9 hours ago, Robocop1051 said:

I was lead to believe there was no barrel restriction on shotguns. 

 You where sorta lead right. The short barrel length only applies to pump,lever and break action shotguns not semi operated shotguns.

There are some rules, it's legal as long as it's overall length is greater than 660mm/30inches and a factory barrel.You can't take your 18 in 870 and cut the barrel down yourself.

 The shortest  available barrel that's legal(to my best knowledge) is 8.5in with a full stock. If you replace the stock with a pistol grip it's legal but must be registered as a restricted firearm.

 

 

[Cunuckgaucho]

8 minutes ago, sketch said:

so the next gen will not get much of anything.. or raped with paper work.. sounds like a fiasco. glad you are on the fighting chance side of things! you will be welcome on the us side if you can be! keep up the fight.

It's elimination by attrition,eventually all the 12(1-5) will pass away so all those firearms will be destroyed,dewatted or possible a musem will take them.

 

Weird Canadian firearm law- Using the AK-47 as an example, A working AK-47 is prohibited in Canada, a dewatted or inert actual AK-47 is not considered a firearm and legal ,no paperwork needed. 

Now for the kicker,a non-working replica AK-47 is also classed as a prohibited firearm.

Thanks for the invite and it might come to that,for now I need to stay herein Canada and fight this much like you guys are doing down there.

 

[sketch]

non working .. ! its a scarry looking hunk o metal? shits! ? 

[unforgiven]

Thanks for the reply brother ? good luck

[98Z5V]

Gaucho, this is the most information we've ever heard on all this stuff - it gets referenced once in awhileby other CA members - but no details like this.  That's why I was asking in the first place...

It's better than Australia, WAY better than Great Britain... NZ, I don't know - we have a good guy from NZ here, and that's not bad, I don't think.

Makes me wonder what the hell is going on with my other brothers in real English-Speaking Countries on this planet.  WTF?...  Militarily, we had an exercise with our real partners once a year, and it was nicknamed "ABCA" - American, British, Canadian, Australian..."  We forgot about the NZ brothers... 

No offense, but the English tried to "rule" us and make us subjects, and we weren't having it. At all.  I don't wish that upon anyone, and the Brits got an asswhoopin' for years of abuse on us.  I don't understand WTF happened in the other countries...

[shepp]

16 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Gaucho, this is the most information we've ever heard on all this stuff - it gets referenced once in awhileby other CA members - but no details like this.  That's why I was asking in the first place...

It's better than Australia, WAY better than Great Britain... NZ, I don't know - we have a good guy from NZ here, and that's not bad, I don't think.

Makes me wonder what the hell is going on with my other brothers in real English-Speaking Countries on this planet.  WTF?...  Militarily, we had an exercise with our real partners once a year, and it was nicknamed "ABCA" - American, British, Canadian, Australian..."  We forgot about the NZ brothers... 

No offense, but the English tried to "rule" us and make us subjects, and we weren't having it. At all.  I don't wish that upon anyone, and the Brits got an asswhoopin' for years of abuse on us.  I don't understand WTF happened in the other countries...

No kiwi has stated they’re pretty lax iirc, suppressors bought over the counter, and or can be built? I don’t remember all his details maybe in his intro. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

On 3/13/2018 at 8:51 PM, unforgiven said:

Thanks for the reply brother ? good luck

 Thanks, much appreciated. Good luck to you guys and your battle.

[Cunuckgaucho]

On 3/13/2018 at 10:42 PM, 98Z5V said:

Gaucho, this is the most information we've ever heard on all this stuff - it gets referenced once in awhileby other CA members - but no details like this.  That's why I was asking in the first place...

It's better than Australia, WAY better than Great Britain... NZ, I don't know - we have a good guy from NZ here, and that's not bad, I don't think.

Makes me wonder what the hell is going on with my other brothers in real English-Speaking Countries on this planet.  WTF?...  Militarily, we had an exercise with our real partners once a year, and it was nicknamed "ABCA" - American, British, Canadian, Australian..."  We forgot about the NZ brothers... 

No offense, but the English tried to "rule" us and make us subjects, and we weren't having it. At all.  I don't wish that upon anyone, and the Brits got an asswhoopin' for years of abuse on us.  I don't understand WTF happened in the other countries...

No offence taken

I think Great Britain is a lost cause,Australia is just sad given their so called frontier mentality.

Here in Canada there have been some glimmer of hope such as when the RCMP(federal police) tried to ban(re class as prohibited) two rifles(Swiss Arms and the CZ 858) but gun owners rallied and the minister in charge over ruled the attempted re classification.

Recently a farmer was charged with murder after some drunk youth drove on to his property,attempted to steal some vehicles etc. he was acquitted.

The number of licences  continue to increase and both firearms courses and range memberships continue to grow.Some ranges no longer taking names for the wait list.

We still have a ways to go and the current government is not friendly to gun owners but to much at stake to give up. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

On 3/14/2018 at 2:47 PM, shepp said:

No kiwi has stated they’re pretty lax iirc, suppressors bought over the counter, and or can be built? I don’t remember all his details maybe in his intro. 

from-http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/08/dean-weingarten/new-zealand-silencers-cheap-and-unregulated/

In New Zealand, this economy .22 rimfire gun muffler is selling for about $15. Note the mention at the end of the unregulated status: “There are no age or licence restrictions on silencer sales.” In New Zealand, a 12-year-old boy or girl can make some money doing chores, drop by the local sporting goods store and pick up a gun muffler over the counter for a few dollars.

 

 Kiwi's can use ARs for hunting,while here in Canada my ARs are limited to sanction rifle ranges only. There are a number of AR like rifles that are classified as non-restricted so can shoot outside of the range.

For some stupidity in Canadian firearms law, the British straight pull AR(basically a bolt action) if owned in Canada would have to be registered as a restricted rifle as the lower is AR upper compatible.

Some local manufactures are now realizing there is a market for AR type rifles and are building rifle  to fill this demand.The way the regulation is written as long as the lower is not compatible with an AR upper it's not an AR. It doesn't matter that all the other parts are AR compatible(Bolt,trigger,furniture etc) 

[Cunuckgaucho]

For today's WTF moment in Canadian Firearms Law( so you can see what we are dealing with)

The .22 Mossberg Blaze rifle is a non-restricted rifle unless you try and buy the Blaze-47 which is a prohibited firearm in Canada.

Same rifle just a different set of furniture but that doesn't stop the pony boys (rcmp) trying to protect kittens and small children from imaginary danger.

[98Z5V]

You're in BC.  Maybe one day we can get you down here to AZ for a meetup shoot.  Give you some freedom, in a way.  It would be a hoot to have you down for one. 

[Cunuckgaucho]

53 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You're in BC.  Maybe one day we can get you down here to AZ for a meetup shoot.  Give you some freedom, in a way.  It would be a hoot to have you down for one. 

I'm just north of Vancouver,Google maps says 25 hrs to Phoenix  Something in the fall would work great. Do a bit of a loop check out a few states for options if I have to leave here. 

I can bring down some Canadian manufactured guns(the ones I'm waiting on) Not sure I can bring my Colt Canada SAS  IUR as it's only got a 15.7 in barrel  I think it's got to 16 in to get it across the border.

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, Cunuckgaucho said:

 Not sure I can bring my Colt Canada SAS  IUR as it's only got a 15.7 in barrel  I think it's got to 16 in to get it across the border.

Correct - it wouldn't be legal on this side, unless the muzzle device was pinned and welded, or 1100-degree silver soldered.

We have a Fall Shoot every year - that's the BIG one!  This weekend is the Spring Shoot. The hardcore guys show up for that one...   

Edited March 16, 2018 by 98Z5V

[Cunuckgaucho]

I'll have to check, I think the barrel here is measured without the muzzle device so fingers crossed,I'll know for tomorrow 

[Cunuckgaucho]

No joy,barrel to short(there's a joke in there somewhere)

Ironic, a Canadian gun I can''t bring into the USA

[Cunuckgaucho]

 So the federal government has tabled new  "common sense" gun control legislation.Been working some strange hours due to shutdowns so still wrapping my head around it.

Big one is they've taken two rifle and made them prohibited,current owners grandfathered but only able to sell,trade or transfer to those with a 12(9) on their license.Will be interesting if the number registered will match the number imported into Canada (previously rifle didn't require registration)

 Transport for restricted officially known as an ATT(authorization to transport)  was needed to move restricted/prohibited firearms. I currently have a blanket ATT that allows ranges,gunsmith,the boarder,if I go away for a couple days etc. The new legislation will only allow home to range and back again directly. Will have to phone in for a permit for anything else.

While claiming there will be no registration of non restricted firearms,to gift,transfer,sell or even lend a non restricted firearm you'll have to calling to get a sales authorization number thus allowing them to record buyer,seller and firearms information.

 

[98Z5V]

Did that just pass, and just happen to you?  

[Cunuckgaucho]

It was tabled yesterday.,has to go through the rubber stamp formalities(lieberal party holds a majority) and we don't have the checks and balances that USA has with the Senate and Congress. 

The government here used the Florida shooting as one of their reasons,like most antis they seem to do a secret happy dance when people die  so they can further their agenda.

Any time someone from the government uses the words 'common sense' or 'for the greater good' it's a lie