PA-10 GEN 3

[bearleft]

It looks like they are listening  https://youtu.be/llR0G_N5rlc

Edited August 8, 2019 by bearleft
bad URL

[phil_gretz]

Hello everyone.  First time poster here.  I have enjoyed reading the discussion forums here for about 6 months now.  Since I haven't seen much discussion about the PA-10 Gen 3, I though that I'd respond to this thread.

I bought a Gen 3 PA-10 as a separate lower and upper this Summer (2020).  So this production run incorporates whatever fixes PSA has accepted from the prior generation feedback.  The upper is the 20" stainless, with a floating M-Lok handguard, and NiB bolt carrier group.  The lower is pretty standard, with the EPT.   I normally don't shoot .308 at our local indoor ranges, so have only fired it the one session to zero the flip-up iron sights.  I guess that I fired only five 3-shot groups, because I had only visually boresighted the barrel to the iron sights at 25 yards at home.   I had cleaned and heavily lubricated the rifle before taking it to the range, and had manually worked the action about 100 times or so.  I was using new PMAG 10-round magazines.

In summary, it ran without incident for all rounds fired, which were plain 150 grain Federal.  I shot one group at 10 yards (single cartridge, then two cartridges in the magazine), adjusted the rear sight one click, and then repeated the three-shot group.  Then moving the target to 25 yards, I repeated the process twice, but with three rounds loaded into the magazine.   I adjusted the rear one more time, and then moved the target out to 50 yards, the limit at my range.  I fired one three-round group and called it good enough. 

Using the iron sights, I managed ~1.25" (supported) at 50 yards, so I'm encouraged.   The brass ejection was ~3 o'clock, neither forward or backward.  Next I'll mount a small scope and find somewhere to shoot at 100 yards.  But, so far, so good.  I thought that folks on this discussion board would want to know.

Edited October 19, 2020 by phil_gretz
grammar

[shooterrex]

Good to hear. Did you buy the lower w/a fixed stock or the carbine stock. Where does the gas tube end in the cam cutout? The fixed stocks have had much less cycling problems than the carbine stock. My PA 10 w/the fixed stock cycled fine from the factory.

[phil_gretz]

14 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Good to hear. Did you buy the lower w/a fixed stock or the carbine stock. Where does the gas tube end in the cam cutout? The fixed stocks have had much less cycling problems than the carbine stock. My PA 10 w/the fixed stock cycled fine from the factory.

I bought the adjustable stock lower.  Looking at the gas tube today, it falls short of reaching the mid-point of the semi-circular milled cut-out on the upper receiver.  Maybe at the 40% point?  

[98Z5V]

15 hours ago, phil_gretz said:

I bought the adjustable stock lower.  Looking at the gas tube today, it falls short of reaching the mid-point of the semi-circular milled cut-out on the upper receiver.  Maybe at the 40% point?  

"Adjustable stock lower" could mean a few things - rifle recoil system with a MagPul PRS stock.  Carbine recoil system with a standard 6-position setup, and a carbine buttstock that slides.  Weird combo for a 20" barrel, but if the recoil system is right, then it doesn't matter what your barrel length or gas system is - as long as gas system and recoil system are balanced.  If it's truly the carbine recoil system...  then... 

You'll also find that the buffer is too light, the receiver extension won't be the right internal depth, and the gas port will be too small.  It probably has an AR15 recoil spring in it.

Just being honest, based on history here with these things.

Edited October 21, 2020 by 98Z5V

[phil_gretz]

On 10/20/2020 at 11:36 PM, 98Z5V said:

"Adjustable stock lower" could mean a few things - rifle recoil system with a MagPul PRS stock.  Carbine recoil system with a standard 6-position setup, and a carbine buttstock that slides.  Weird combo for a 20" barrel, but if the recoil system is right, then it doesn't matter what your barrel length or gas system is - as long as gas system and recoil system are balanced.  If it's truly the carbine recoil system...  then... 

You'll also find that the buffer is too light, the receiver extension won't be the right internal depth, and the gas port will be too small.  It probably has an AR15 recoil spring in it.

Just being honest, based on history here with these things.

I weighed the buffer and measured the internal depth this morning.  The buffer weighs 3.8 oz, and the internal depth measures 6.996 in.  The spring has 27-28 coils.

[phil_gretz]

[98Z5V]

Carbine Recoil System - the depth is right on the extension, so hang on to that part. Buffer is too light, needs to be close to 5.4oz, and the spring needs to go.  The spring of choice would be the Sprinco Orange spring - it's made specifically for these 7" .308AR carbine recoil systems.  KAK make a stainless-bodied buffer that weighs 5.3oz, and that's close enough.

Edited October 25, 2020 by 98Z5V

[phil_gretz]

Thank you.  I'll locate those items and install them this Fall.   I'll be glad to avoid future reliability problems.  I only have a very few rounds fired for this rifle, so don't know what I don't know...

[98Z5V]

Phil, here's the buffer that will work quite well:

https://www.primaryarms.com/KAK-LR-308

Here's one from HeavyBuffers.com that works even better - the machining is flawless - You'd be after the first one listed on this page:

http://heavybuffers.com/ar10carbine.html

Edited October 27, 2020 by 98Z5V

[phil_gretz]

Thank you, Sir.

[phil_gretz]

The spring and buffer arrived from Primary Arms today. Here's a quick photo before I button it up.  Maybe range time after Thanksgiving travels. Thanks, fellows.

[98Z5V]

  Looking forward to the range report, man. 

[phil_gretz]

Well, I finally mounted my optic and took the rifle to a 50 yard indoor range near my home.  

After three groups of 3 to achieve 100-yard zero, I shot two 3-round groups of two different ammo types.  Pink are the more expensive Hornaday Deer and the green is cheap Remington.

The two single shots were my standing and holding over the dot at 50 yards, trying for the bullseye.  I'm not trained for rifle shooting, no prior service, so still am learning.

 

[phil_gretz]

On 11/19/2020 at 10:39 PM, 98Z5V said:

  Looking forward to the range report, man. 

Sorry it's taken so long.  PG

[Armed Eye Doc]

Nice shooting. 

[shooterrex]

Glad it's running ok for you.

[98Z5V]

Success!   Well done, man!  

[unforgiven]

Good job brother 👍

[Steve_In_29]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:27 PM, 98Z5V said:

Carbine Recoil System - the depth is right on the extension, so hang on to that part. Buffer is too light, needs to be close to 5.4oz, and the spring needs to go.  The spring of choice would be the Sprinco Orange spring - it's made specifically for these 7" .308AR carbine recoil systems.  KAK make a stainless-bodied buffer that weighs 5.3oz, and that's close enough.

The PSA Gen3's have an adjustable gas block so is this still applicable?

[98Z5V]

40 minutes ago, Steve_In_29 said:

The PSA Gen3's have an adjustable gas block so is this still applicable?

They have an adjustable gas block as a band aid to make their design function.  They're just putting the band-aid on the wrong cut, and not really fixing the problems with the design and execution of what they're making.

[Steve_In_29]

11 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

They have an adjustable gas block as a band aid to make their design function.  They're just putting the band-aid on the wrong cut, and not really fixing the problems with the design and execution of what they're making.

So far mine has run everything from Tula, various mil-surp, Igman 168gr to ADI 168gr match ammo without an issue and ejects at the 3-4 o-clock position depending on ammo.

What would changing the buffer/spring do for me?

 

[Steve_In_29]

That was a serious question.

Would this work...

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kaw-Valley-Precision-AR-10-6pos-Mil-Spec-Carbine-S-p/kvp-ar10-milspeckit-5.6.htm

[shooterrex]

That should probably work. KAW makes good parts. The heavier buffer should smooth out your recoil impulse.

[jtallen83]

8 hours ago, Steve_In_29 said:

Would this work...

https://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Kaw-Valley-Precision-AR-10-6pos-Mil-Spec-Carbine-S-p/kvp-ar10-milspeckit-5.6.htm

All sounds good, they leave out a detail, internal depth on the buffer tube, I'm thinking this is the short buffer set up. Armalite uses a 7 5/8 internal depth buffer and a standard H3 heavy buffer, not hard to get that one even heavier while the short version is pretty much topped out where KAW got to. Either way it's good to see the industry recognizing one of the leading issues with these rifles and suppling more fixes. You can go back many years here and see the Armalite kit fix peoples rifle over and over again.

https://www.armalite.com/SACItem.aspx?Item=AR10REKIT01&ReturnURL=/Armalite/Product-Category/AR10-Parts-Accessories/Lower-Receiver-Parts&Category=ac614400-ff09-4cdf-9d35-419a654e7201