First venture... will appreciate input

[jtallen83]

47 minutes ago, SgtDog0311 said:

jtallen83, that thread was really only about 14 lines.  The rest was just fluff I wanted to capture... sort of prove I was doing my homework to you guys. 

Did I get the main questions then? Couldn't really tell what was what on my phone.

[SgtDog0311]

Obe'd jt.   Ordered the ArmaLite today.  

For anyone else peeking in here, have a look at this unless you are already familiar.   Tell me what you think.

https://www.luth-ar.com/product/mba-5-buttstock/

Considering this or the Magpul CTR but hope to get out and visit some shops tomorrow to get hands-on.

[jtallen83]

7 hours ago, SgtDog0311 said:

Tell me what you think.

Good basic stock, CTR uses a lever to lock up the stock to your adjustment, stays pretty firm. The SL line uses a couple chunks of spring steel to keep tension and stop wobble.

[392heminut]

On 11/15/2019 at 4:11 AM, jtallen83 said:

Good basic stock, CTR uses a lever to lock up the stock to your adjustment, stays pretty firm. The SL line uses a couple chunks of spring steel to keep tension and stop wobble.

I have a CTR and have used the SL with the steel leaf springs. Both are pretty good, solid stocks.

[SgtDog0311]

This could wind up being the longest new build thread on 308ar.   Hope I don't wear out the experts.   Been through this in other venues but dang its frustrating to start over.   This one is like a big circle where barrel choices drives gas choices, drives buffer choices, drives stock choices and the question is where do you grab hold of the merrygoround.   For instance, really like the Atlas handguard and find the proprietary barrel nut with the free float anti-rotation tabs are not a player with the M5E1 upper I already ordered.    Entered the circle without looking both ways.

Additionally I'm backing up the truck on the barrel length... and weight.   Especially after reading some of the build threads here.    Right now I’m trying to determine if I want a Carbine vs Rifle configuration, weight and accuracy being the tradeoffs.    The .308 vs the 6.5 was already a decision point I gave way on in favor the .308 simply because of my M1A and ammo compatibility.    But still, shooting these cast bullet guns out to long ranges leaves a guy prejudice -  if he is going to build a flat-trajectory rifle it stands to reason it should at least do what his low-velocity 140 year old rifles do.   Everyone asks what are you going to use this rifle for and now I know why you better frigging answer that question.   If you want a battle rifle that will serve you well in a zombie-invasion (read “political unrest”) then do you really need something heavy as an anchor to shoot 1000 yds or do you want something that can put down rabid dogs coming down your cul-de-sac or kill an elk standing on a distant finger or outcropping.    I carried my Ballard the entire elk season without a sling and I think I can live with a 10lb rifle especially if it had a  sling.   But I’m beginning to ask myself, do I really want a 20” or 22” barrel for picking off bad guys a 1000 yds away.   I’m  not ready to go to a 16” barrel but I might.  Could be an 18” would be a good compromise but that seems (just from my reading) to be about where my indecision is falling.     Then there is the balance of your build.    Lets say I started off wanted a long range set up, which I did...   Well then, it would follow that I want a precision fixed rifle stock.   Those add weight and arguably add some balance to the stick.   I found myself compromising right off the bat, preferring the carbine stocks I saw.    That got right into the gas system and buffer set-up real fast.   That made me think, dude, you better listen to that question you keep reading and decide what you want this for before going further.   That sort of has me taking another run at the barrel length and weight.   That’s where I’m at right now.          

[SgtDog0311]

I see if I drop down from the BA CMV 20" to their 18" I only drop 3oz of so.   16" drops a bunch.   Think I'll look at some other manufacturers that might have a lighter profile albeit I'm not ready to go 16" or to a pencil profile yet.   I'll post questions a lot shorter than my tome above once I have them.  

[Matt.Cross]

I've shot out to 1k quite a few times with an 18.5" barrel, with no problems apart from environmental factors. Point being, an 18" 1:10 twist will stabilize a 175gr SMK out to 1k with no difficulty.

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks Matt.

What is the estimation here of BA barrels compared to the others I see in the many "post your build" threads on all the forums?

[Matt.Cross]

4 hours ago, SgtDog0311 said:

Thanks Matt.

What is the estimation here of BA barrels compared to the others I see in the many "post your build" threads on all the forums?

Ballistic Advantage makes a phenomenal barrel. I've got one on a Mk12 Mod 1 build, and it's a pretty incredible performer. Several folks here have shot it and may vouch for it, but I've been impressed by every BA barrel based build I've ever shot, and that's based on a half dozen builds and 3 separate calibers.

[98Z5V]

I'll definitely vouch for any barrel that Ballistic Advantage makes.  The ones that I have shoot the lights out, right out of the box.  The most impressive one was the Mk12 Mod H 6.5 Grendel barrel.  After 20 rounds through it (to re-zero/confirm a scope taken from another rifle, to break this in), I went directly to 500 yards with it.  It put 8 rounds into a 5" high by 7" wide box at 500 yards.  Brand new barrel. 

BA makes great barrels. 

[SgtDog0311]

Roger that, thanks!  

Been keeping track of the weights of components, have them captured except for the Armalite buffer/tube/spring and LaRue trigger but can weigh them myself.  Should arrive any day.    Receivers ought to be at the FFL.    After reading the 'build threads' here and elsewhere I got more interested in tracking the weight.     

[SgtDog0311]

Ok, so I see I can go direct to BA and find a little larger selection on barrels than AERO shows.  

So question:  Reading about headspace and ordering bolt & barrel together being a 'good thing' in that regard, I'm wondering who makes their bolt and if going that route vs an AERO bolt (on sale of course) would be advisable?

 

[SgtDog0311]

Try and break these up a little.  I read this last night from some NRA on-line rag.

"Mid-length direct impingment gas systems run far better than do carbine lengths in larger-caliber chamberings. Rifle-length systems are better still, even in 16-inch barrels. I am a firm believer in the use of adjustable gas systems, be they at the gas block, on the gas tube or in the bolt carrier".

1st Question:   Is it true?

2nd Question:   If true, how much weight should you give that consideration should that be in selecting barrel length and gas systems". 

3rd Question:  What are y'll recommendation on fixed vs adjustable gas blocks.  

Bonus Question:  What's the plural of y'll. 

Answer: All y'll.  Sorry couldn't resist.  My brother-in-law who calls me a gravy-suckin-sooner was real proud of that question.

[Matt.Cross]

38 minutes ago, SgtDog0311 said:

"Mid-length direct impingment gas systems run far better than do carbine lengths in larger-caliber chamberings.

This is a fable, pay it no heed. 

Rifle-length systems are better still, even in 16-inch barrels.

Rifle length systems are probably optimal in barrels from 16" and upward, but 'better' is a subjective standard, not a practical one.

I am a firm believer in the use of adjustable gas systems, be they at the gas block, on the gas tube or in the bolt carrier".

1st Question:   Is it true?

2nd Question:   If true, how much weight should you give that consideration should that be in selecting barrel length and gas systems". 

3rd Question:  What are y'll recommendation on fixed vs adjustable gas blocks.  

#1. Most of those points are not true, but some aren't so much false as they are opinion or preference. Definitely not gospel in any sense.

#2. The only consideration you really need to make, is in terms of what systems are reliable and proven, especially in regards to the recoil system. Gas systems aren't terribly tricky as long as your gas port is the correct size and you have the correct gas tube length.

#3. Unless you buy a barrel with an oversized gas port, or are running a suppressor, you're better served running a fixed gas block. I prefer the clamp-on type myself.

[jtallen83]

49 minutes ago, SgtDog0311 said:

1st Question:   Is it true?

2nd Question:   If true, how much weight should you give that consideration should that be in selecting barrel length and gas systems". 

3rd Question:  What are y'll recommendation on fixed vs adjustable gas blocks.

1. Yes, no, maybe, never, and always........

I use a few adjustable blocks for suppressor use and on a lightweight/low mass build. I built a 16 inch rifle gas 308, works, shoots soft, can be picky on ammo and cleaning with suppressor use. 

2. I won't build another 16 inch rifle gas gun. The port had to be opened way up to get the lower pressure loads to function. The actual difference in recoil is minimal, I notice it shoots with a softer but longer/slower recoil impulse. If you enjoy building things just a little different and don't mind the time spent on it then an adjustable block is a handy tool. If you want rock solid reliability then go with a more traditional system.

3. I have always liked SLR blocks but they are pricey. The $20 or so Cotton Arms adjustable block has been fine, it is in a set and forget situation,  I was not able to get the by-pass side of the Superlative adjustable block to vent enough on even my 16 inch rifle build, 308 just has more gas than that part of their system handles. 

If you are not wanting to build some more exotic parts or not using a suppressor then stick with the standardized stuff.

[SgtDog0311]

Thank you both.

[SgtDog0311]

Well on AERO I'm looking at this https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/18-308-fluted-stainless-steel-barrel-rifle-length  $319 stainless fluted.   Don't know the pros and cons between stainless or fluted and simple round CMV.  Any observations while I go poke around the web for pros and cons.   

This one is my other focus, cheaper but a few ounces heavier.   https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/308-18-cmv-rifle-barrel

I asked BA who makes their bolts but they declined to say.

[SgtDog0311]

Also, AERO said they will not check headspace even if ordered together but would guarantee and correct if I found it to be an issue.   

[jtallen83]

1 minute ago, SgtDog0311 said:

Also, AERO said they will not check headspace even if ordered together

Guys at Fulton Armory will, and it will be tight 

https://www.fulton-armory.com/far-308-barrels.aspx

Check out the FAQ here, answers to lots of questions here;

https://www.fulton-armory.com/far-15faqs.aspx

[SgtDog0311]

Thanks, good info on flutted barrels there applicable to me.  

 

[jtallen83]

5 minutes ago, SgtDog0311 said:

Thanks, good info on flutted barrels there applicable to me.  

 

Fulton has been in the game a long time, you know you will get top quality for your money and the customer service is outstanding.

[Matt.Cross]

19 minutes ago, jtallen83 said:

Fulton has been in the game a long time, you know you will get top quality for your money and the customer service is outstanding.

Amen to that. I've got a Fulton Armoy with over 7k flawless rounds through it.

[SgtDog0311]

Got my first two packages tonight.   The LaRue trigger and the Armalite 6 position Buffer tube.   Starting to get real.  Components (listed weight = 9lbs, but I've got a 20" barrel plugged in and still undecided there.  Fulton's has an 18" lightweight that would drop a pound.   Still having trouble with that decision.    Been through all the "what's it for".  Got to get serious answering that question.   I hunt, but I enjoy long range.    Decisions Decisions! 

[98Z5V]

11 hours ago, jtallen83 said:

2. I won't build another 16 inch rifle gas gun. The port had to be opened way up to get the lower pressure loads to function.

Minimum gas port diameter for a 16" Rifle-gas .308 Win barrel has to be 0.105".  The max you can make a gas port diameter is 0.125"  For a 16" rifle-gas barrel, there aren't many choices out there - but for the choices out there - that's the min diameter that will function the gun, for most quality guns.

That's not directed at JT - that's info for the masses.

Also, for .308 Win guns, there aren't any 16" barrels on the market with "carbine gas" - as far as you think of carbine gas systems - in AR-15s.  They don't exist.  The recoil would be so harsh that you'd wanna dive headfirst off a cliff.  Don't confuse the "Armalite AR-10 Carbine Gas System" with ANY AR15 carbine gas stuff - the Armalite Carbine Gas system is 3/16" longer than the AR15 MIDLENGTH gas system. 

That's the way of the .308AR...

[SgtDog0311]

I got lost and dropped this elsewhere last night.

I think I am down to two Barrel choices.   Have not researched this faxon yet, i.e., would like to know if they have a bolt to sell with it.

https://faxonfirearms.com/faxon-18-big-gunner-profile-ar10-barrel-308-win-nitrided/#product-reviews

The other is the AERO BA 20" CMV offering now back in stock (or was a minute ago).   

The Faxon would make a 9lb out of an otherwise 10lb rifle, no mag or scope.   Just iron sights in that weight. 

Any observations... midweight?  Anything.   Even bolts/gas blocks available from Faxon.