Osprey Defense Piston Conversion

[Robocop1051]

Has anyone seen one of these yet?

From the looks of it, you use your existing gas block? Kind of a nifty little device... I'm just now thinking of getting into the piston game. Trying to find a direction to go. I was leaning in the directions of an AA piston kit, but how original is that? If Osprey made a Mid Length, I might be better sold on their product.

[imschur]

Interesting. Are you volunteering again?  <laughs>

[edgecrusher]

robo= test mule

[Robocop1051]

Sorry guys. They don't make a mid length, and their reviews aren't 100% like the Adams Arms.

[98Z5V]

Sorry guys. They don't make a mid length, and their reviews aren't 100% like the Adams Arms.

Way to dodge that bullet, brother - nicely done...  <thumbsup> ;D

I'd tell you to not let these guys talk you into anything, however:

1) I'm guilty of talking people into stuff, all the time...  ::)

2) I get talked into stuff all the time...  <dontknow>

Anyway, you did a damn fine job staying out of that one...  <lmao>

[survivalshop]

I don't think it would be too hard to convert the rifle length system to a Mid-length.

It looks like a nifty idea ,but I'm not about to drop the "I double dog dare ya" on you, for this one .

We need a nother Ginny pig (woops ,I mean experimenter ) for this one & since I'm not into piston AR's ,that leaves me out . <thumbsup>

[Robocop1051]

Have I mentioned how much I hate you guys!?

I was passing through ARF and saw a middy system being sold for a decent price. I hit the guy up for a deal.

Hanging out with you guys is breaking my wallet.

[MaDuce]

Will these work on the .308?

I myself ordered an Addax Tactical ZK mid-length carbine with a Vltor MUR upper receiver. I was told yesterday that it ships in a week.

Those things proved incredibly reliable, soft recoiling and highly stable during extensive field testing. I can't wait to see how well they work. That all said, I tend to think gas pistons are barely worth their weight. Yes, ARs pepper up the action a bit with their DI, but at the same time, a gun that stops up any time early on from that is not a gun I care to own. Gas pistons are a nice addition to reliability, but if the gun can't function correctly without them, then I'm not interested. Fortunately, some of the higher-end AR-15s seam to work exceptionally well with or without gas pistons. Gas pistons just give you a little extra peace of mind after your gun has already reached that "it's seriously time to service your gun" point.

Even with the one I ordered, I am far more interested in the record, knowledge and experience of the makers, and the care they put in to tailor making it then the gas piston it's self.

[Robocop1051]

I still dont trust pistons for accuracy applications. I wont put one on my 308 specifically for that reason. Too many parts moving ahead of the receiver, means interference with barrel harmonics... Do I have any scientific proof of this? No... I'm prejudice and superstitious. That's reason enough for me.

As for a combat/competition application... Pistons are supposed to relieve some of the felt recoil and soften the impact of the firearm. Proper gas distribution, BCG weight, barrel compensation and buffer technology should cause your AR15 to pop like a 22lr with each shot.

My main reason for the piston system is that i don't have one yet, and I have never built one... And the peer pressure was killing me to be the first.  ;D

[MaDuce]

Like you, I don't think I'll be using one on my .308. Sounds like the .308 really doesn't need one and the gun is heavy enough.

Accuracy wise, things may be a little different on the Addax gas pistons. I have yet to actually fire an Addax ZK, but reviews by others who have more experience with the AR-15 then I ever will describe the accuracy and stability as being exceptional. But you also have to remember that this is no parts kit you order and slap on your rifle. This is a tailor made system that's individually built, tuned and tested by a renowned AR-15 craftsman. They are renowned for both accuracy and reliability.

None the less, as I stated earlier, gas pistons are not a huge selling point for me. If the AR needs a gas piston to work dependably, I am not interested in the gun at all.

[Dusty44]

Soft recoil?  I put a Limbsaver butt pad on my 24 inch stainless DPMS.  Limbsaver makes one of their 4 standard pads that fits real well if not perfectly.  I am not a bit worried about the little bit of not quite perfect.  The pad needed a new hole drilled for the bottom screw,  a mod for that breather in the upper screw (Forstner bits in the drill motor for the soft pad;  a wood bit for the plastic backplate to shave it to clear metal parts),  and my DPMS 308 has NO felt recoil.  Replacing the original solid plastic pad covered over that compartment in the stock (does anybody actually use that space for anything?) and added a 1/2 inch to length of pull which made the rifle feel a lot more comfortable.  Is there any reason why it would not work also on the 5.56 caliber rifles?

[MaDuce]

As for a combat/competition application... Pistons are supposed to relieve some of the felt recoil and soften the impact of the firearm. Proper gas distribution, BCG weight, barrel compensation and buffer technology should cause your AR15 to pop like a 22lr with each shot.

My main reason for the piston system is that i don't have one yet, and I have never built one... And the peer pressure was killing me to be the first.  ;D

Last time I looked at this thread there were people running around and yelling. I'm seeing things a little more clearly now.

I am the exact opposite on conclusions. I rest on nothing but facts and hard evidence.

When it comes to softening recoil, the only evidence I have seen with gas pistons having any reduction in recoil that you are going to notice is from the means by which the bolt is charged. I'm talking about softly pushing it back as opposed to quickly punching it back.

As far as I know, only PWS and Addax are fiddling with "soft push" gas pistons. These basically use less force then DI or normal short strokes but remain under pressure for a longer period of time. It's like throwing a soft ball as opposed to hitting it with a bat. This only effects how fast and aggressive the bolt charges on you. As far as I know, it has no noticeable effect on the initial kick, which tends to be the worst part.

I have a few friends who are hard-core AR-15 nuts and they all agree that if you want to reduce recoil and increase stability, get a PWS FSC (or bulldog compensator if you are lucky enough to find one) for the initial punch and a hydraulic recoil buffer for the charging of the action.

I have a bulldog but am still waiting on my AR-15 (supposedly ships out next week) but my friend has one on his AR and has told me over and over again that it at least cut the recoil of his AR in half.

These things are also much cheaper then gas piston kits. I myself have yet to try any of these gas piston kits, but all the AR-15 people I know say that if you want a gas piston AR-15, then get a complete upper from PWS or Addax Tactical. I've dealt with the people at PWS and am personal friends with the owners of Addax. They are all great people to deal with.

BTW.

Why don't you guys try and get Addax to sponsor this board. They sponsor others and make some pretty nice .308 ARs.

[Robocop1051]

My #1 reason for not considering Addax or PWS is that I have a Mega Arms billet lower that will only match (cosmetically) with a Mega Arms billet upper. I also don't care to buy something that someone else built. I look forward to building my rifles. I have looked at the PWS and Addax uppers, and they are really nice, but neither company offers EXACTLY what I am looking for in a rifle.

I was planning on putting the Osprey piston in a 7.62x39 upper. I had debated in a 300blk, but I was looking for something more in line with just being a "plinker".

[MaDuce]

oooOOOOoooooooohhhh........I see....

I was unaware that anyone made a piston kit for the .308 ARs. The ones in the above link look like 5.56 piston kits to me.

I somewhat understand the whole "build your own gun" thing. I just don't really register "building from available parts" and "building your own" as the same thing.

I use to genuinely build my own guns allot, and then the local laws changed. Right now, I am considering a .22 Magnum bolt-action of my own design though in the past, I usually built handguns. Nowadays if I want to build my own handgun, I have to go find an already existing one to "modify" in to whatever I've come up with. Too much $ and paper work to be worth it in most cases. Plus, I'm kinda burnt out on that. I have some inventions that would allow a 10mm to be made in the size of a typical 9mm and still kick like a 9mm and MAY do a "mod" to prove it at some point, but that's about it.

Still, that sort of thing is what's necessary if I want to give myself the impression that it's "my" work. To me anyway, assembling pre-existing parts in to an existing gun is more of a chore then a smithing hobby.

That said, I am with you on the matter of building what you want rather then buying something already assembled. At least to some degree.

The "standard" Addax ZK is not exactly what I personally prefer myself. On top of that, I have openly criticized Chris for dropping the bulldog comp for the phalanx in the past.

However, Chris put the receiver I wanted on my upper and a friend of mine sold me a bulldog compensator for a ridiculously low price which I will be installing on the upper as soon as I get it. The rest of the gun is either what I would have done on my own or just lacking the accessories (like a flashlight, optic etc.

If I could afford their guardian, I'd jump on it, but truth be told, if I got one, I'd replace the tac rail with a slimmer one and the muzzle attachment with a PWS FSC.

There's another side to this too though. I baught the Addax ZK as my "hope I never have to use it" long gun. Once the .308 tension has released, I'll probably do like you and start occasionally building various ARs just for novelty.