Powerman Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 (edited) So I don't mean to post multiple things, but did not want this buried in other stuff. Perhaps some folks might be interested. I had a host of failure to eject problems. I run DPMS stuff but have a JP enhanced bolt. I put in a BCM spring kit many run, but I still had failures. BCM uses a "stronger" spring, and the o-ring/post set up. I called up JP Rifles about my problems, and they said they are just releasing a new extractor. They sourced all the extractors from DPMS stock... but they said it was a notorious problem. Not enough grip for 308s. They announced some stuff at SHOT, and they said they would send one out for me. They did... free of charge. Yes, I have zero problems giving companies like that good press for hooking customers up. So here is is. That is the new JP extractor compared to the one that came original, with the BCM spring kit. As you can see... the JP spring is BEEFY. The grove in the extractor for the case is much tighter and deeper. If gives a much more secure grip on the case. I did not have a single ejection problem and I was running a kind of dirty gun. FINALLY!!! The enhanced extractor is not sourced. JP says they make them themselves, and they only cost as much as regular extractors... $40. When they told me about them, they said they were already running them on all their bolts going out. So if you buy a JP bolt, you are getting the enhanced extractor. Very simple/inexpensive part upgrade. The best kind. You might not have any ejection problems, but I can tell you you won't have any with this...at least I no longer do. Right now, they still have DPMS manufactured extractors on their site...but give them a call if you want one. Edited March 21, 2014 by Powerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 That's good intel powerman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Happy to see your running correctly. Can you take a photo of the out side view of the extractor , no need to remove it from the bolt , maybe with the original extractor next to it for comparison . It looks like the reduced or changed the locking lug on the outside face of the extractor. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 You can see in the first photo that the lug is angled on front and back. That is the lug it's resting on. I'll get a top pic up tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Thanks . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 Here they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 23, 2014 Report Share Posted March 23, 2014 They reconfigured the lug there , kinda reminds me of that new bolt that just came on the market for the AR 15 . Probably left some thing there for added strength & alignment of the extractor with the barrel extension. Interesting . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Ya, I said the slot for the case was tighter, but I'm not sure if it matters. When all assembled, the ejector will have tension on it and the case will be seated on the forward inside edge of the extractor. Ill take a look if the "slop" is inside the bolt face on the old extractor, or if the the new one is indeed a tighter tolerance when all together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) So on the DPMS extractor, the slot extends past the bolt face just a hair inside. Off the bolt, the claw rides more on the neck of the case. It is a bit longer/wider. On the JP extractor, the slot is flush with the bolt face, and the claw is a bit narrower and seems to fit more on the shoulder of the case rim. Assembled, neither feel different with a bullet. Both seem secure and movement is the same. When I opened up my bolt this time though, there are a lot of brass shavings. Either way, it seems to have fixed my problem. Obviously, I can't really say if it is the fit of the extractor, or just the sheer power of the beefy spring. Edited March 24, 2014 by Powerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shibiwan Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I keep wondering where the tiny brass bits come from in my .308... I never recall seeing it happen that much on the FN-MAG considering that thing rips through a 250-round 7.62 belt in 20-30 seconds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Been following this problem and thread of powermans a long time I do not have his gun here to evaluate but from the thread on his failures the extractor is not the only problem and this newer beefier one is like trying to get your lug nuts off and not having enough power so you add a cheater bar and this new extractor is the cheater bar..... it looks like it has the oomph to pul any case but why do you need it that is my question... I also run DPMS stuff and I do not even use a O ring on my extractor... so I am curious as to what has been causeing all these failures and I like many have said think your chamber is not quite right..... so all I mean by all my drivel is still be carefull look for ripped brass or chunks out of your brass really look pover your fired cases for signs of to tight a chamberand a finish reamer is the way to go not a hone as you really do not have much control over how much you remove not do you know where it might need to be removed , anyway I hope it works out for you nothing worse than a piece of iron that does not work right ....good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 Magwa, I was seeing the problem like having an improperly sized lug wrench combined with over torqued lug nuts…you may get a bit of a bite on the lug nut but ultimately end up stripping it (the case rim). I see this extractor as a properly sized wrench to remove the case. No cheater bar needed…just a correct fitting tool to extract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 To listen to JP, this is a common enough problem to the point they made a new extractor. I can't really speak to that. Even BCM offing a better spring and some that use o-rings says the springs can be/get weak like any spring can. They could have just stopped at providing a much stronger spring and continue to use DPMS extractors. I'm not sure the exact need for this, but their point is using AR-15 based parts for a .308 is not enough force. Having said that, I have no problem acknowledging I may have other issues... and for others that have ejection problems, this may indeed be a band-aid that masks the problem instead of solving the root cause. Just like any other system that uses springs... using a stronger one overcomes other problems. There are other signs my chamber might be a little tight. Not glaring, but possible. I would have to find a GS here to finish my chamber. I do not really just want to rent one and go to town. A hone would clean things up, and might be enough, even though I understand the compromise being made. So I do think there are a couple other things to do.... HOWEVER, when everything is working right, having a nice strong extractor spring that will not wear out as fast is a good thing. Even if the actual claw design is either/or, the spring is certainly strong enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 I keep wondering where the tiny brass bits come from in my .308... I never recall seeing it happen that much on the FN-MAG considering that thing rips through a 250-round 7.62 belt in 20-30 seconds.... My brass does have a circle mark where the ejector is. That is scraped. I don't see how, but it is. The rest of my brass is not chewed up or scraped up... but I certainly have lots of shavings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 24, 2014 Report Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Did you have the same shavings with the DPMS Extractor ? I just looked over a DPMS 6.8 spc Barrel /bolt , that Robocop has in the for sale section & the extractor looks similar to the new JP one you have now. His ad reads all parts were factory . My point is , if those parts are from Factory DPMS for a 6.8 SPC , why the similarities of the DPMS 6.8 SPC bolts Extractor & the new JP ? Edited March 24, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerman Posted March 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) Did you have the same shavings with the DPMS Extractor ? I just looked over a DPMS 6.8 spc Barrel /bolt , that Robocop has in the for sale section & the extractor looks similar to the new JP one you have now. His ad reads all parts were factory . My point is , if those parts are from Factory DPMS for a 6.8 SPC , why the similarities of the DPMS 6.8 SPC bolts Extractor & the new JP ? While the little angled lug is the same, other stuff is not. The body is smooth for one and the material is not scooped out next to the lugs like Robos is. Mine is also laser marked JP, but that does not mean anything. The extractor I have is the original JP one from the bolt I bought new back when. The new extractor is the new JP enhanced extractor. They said the old ones were just common sourced parts... could be DPMS or someone else. The new extractor may indeed be sourced from someone... not the first time a company claims it's theirs... but they did go as far to say they made them in house, not made by someone else. <dontknow> I had never taken my bolt apart before this. So after maybe 1000 rounds... there were shavings. But it seems like there are more now for only a couple hundred rounds. So more. Edited March 25, 2014 by Powerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I ordered the kit today based on this thread. $68.00 shipped. Includes extractor, enhanced spring, and o-ring. Should be here in a 7 to 10 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Are you having problems ejecting also ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 My extractor is toast. Lots of rounds down the pipe and she finally just gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 About how many rounds till it failed brother ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 (edited) A little over 900 that I can document (that I personally shot). This doesn't count friends, co workers and family. Edited March 26, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Magwa, I was seeing the problem like having an improperly sized lug wrench combined with over torqued lug nuts…you may get a bit of a bite on the lug nut but ultimately end up stripping it (the case rim). I see this extractor as a properly sized wrench to remove the case. No cheater bar needed…just a correct fitting tool to extract. I got ya but what caused the lug nuts to be to tight why does he need another sized wrench when all the rest of us are using the smaller version without problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I got ya but what caused the lug nuts to be to tight why does he need another sized wrench when all the rest of us are using the smaller version without problem? I see your point , but how many of us are using a JP enhanced 308 bolt, from the same batch as his was made ? 900+ rounds & the extractor is shot ? In what way ? Broken in some way ? Just not extracting or unreliable extraction ? Have you tried a new spring ? A hardened steel extractor working brass cartridge cases , it really shouldn't wear out , unless it broke from being made badly . I have had my share of springs weaken & need replacing to get the extractor to work again. I would think we should expect a better service life from a extractor in these rifles. Brass shavings could be from several things , weak brass being one of them ( foreign made surplus etc. ). There could also be a problem with timing , meaning premature extraction. Tight or rough chamber , causing it to be out of time .The extractor its self or some thing on the bolt face or bolt itself , in some way. All these parts, including barrels & complete rifles , are mass produced & I think we have to remember that & that in its self can cause out of spec parts . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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