Cali_Ed Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) So I plan in getting a better scope in the first focal plane later in the future. After watching this videoSNIPER 101 Part 18 - Variable vs Fixed Magnificat…: It makes me wonder what would give me the best result for my coin. I've been watching this guy's series and it's really good. He doesn't really reccomend a variable zoom unless you're forking out some serious coin. What are your thoughts? As I progress with my abilities I will only be shooting long range.for now I'll be sticking with my vortex viper 6.5-20x44 Edited August 5, 2014 by Cali_Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted August 5, 2014 Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 snipers were making long shots before the serious coin Scopes were ever invented. it's all just icing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2014 He talks about how a good 10x scope is good out to 1000 meters, of course you will have to add all the calculations it may take to make that shot. Spike highly of the swfa ss 10x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Again, it all comes down to how you are going to use the rifle, your budget, and to a degree, your ability to get the most our of your scope. Let's say you plan to shoot, I don't know, say 800 meters....and all you were going to do was get prone or shoot off a bench, then you can do that with a less expensive scope....especially if you are going to be on a known distance range. If you are going to hunt, compete or employ your rifle in a rough duty scenario with varying unknown distances and target sizes, then you need to invest in the appropriately priced equipment. Along with that is get with someone to mentor you and/or take a class so you are getting the most out of your equipment. I feel for all the children who don't have bikes, school clothes, and decent beds, because their dad bought a S&B to shoot pasties at the local 100 yard range. Don't overbuy, don't under buy, buy what the mission dictates. Edited August 6, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I Agree with that brother. Just want to have a discussion on the subject Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 (edited) Unless your objectives have changed then I think the scope you have will serve you well for years to come. Edited August 6, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Just shooting paper and steel targets for now. Just wanted to discuss the subject. I searched nothing came up really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I Agree with that brother. Just want to have a discussion on the subject That's his part of the discussion. His opinion, and a good one. If we could tell you exactly what you want to know here, we'd be rich. To know the perfect scope(fixed or variable) at the perfect magnification, for the perfect price....why would there be more than one? Personal preference and needs will dictate the glass. Funds will be up to you. The best for your coin might be a Tasco...and the best for someone else's coin might be NightForce. I know less moving parts in a lens will yield sharper, clearer, and more consistent images. That being said, you give up the field of view change. Glassing over an area for movement and being able to have a good field is a plus, but if your paper targets aren't moving...and you always know where you are going to shoot....do you need a zoom? Sure, if the price was right for you. What magnification do you find yourself using most on current scope? Maxed out? Does it ever change? If not, a decent fixed scope may be the ticket for you. Stain had a lot of great points that I think you're skimming past. I don't know how much you read past the 800meter comment, but I suggest you look closer. He was very much involved in your discussion, even if he didn't say what you expected to hear. Sorry, but I take your comment as a disrespect to a very knowledgable person who took time to put his two cents in. Not once but twice you referred to his opinion as not part of the discussion He told you what the best bang for your buck was. Keep what you have, it's a great lens and will serve you well. If you outgrow that one, get out your wallet....it's gonna hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I'm sorry you feel like I disrespected stain, but I agreed because I felt he pretty much hit the nail on the head. The reason I said I just wanted to have a discussion because I'm not looking for a new scope at this time just knowledge which he definitely shared and has enlightened me. I apologize if it came out wrong. I highly appreciate everyone's time. Just wanted to discuss the matter with you guys is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DNP Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Might be the way I read it, it seemed like you were pushing off his comment as not fitting your discussion. I apologize for the misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Again, it all comes down to how you are going to use the rifle, your budget, and to a degree, your ability to get the most our of your scope. Let's say you plan to shoot, I don't know, say 800 meters....and all you were going to do was get prone or shoot off a bench, then you can do that with a less expensive scope....especially if you are going to be on a known distance range. If you are going to hunt, compete or employ your rifle in a rough duty scenario with varying unknown distances and target sizes, then you need to invest in the appropriately priced equipment. Along with that is get with someone to mentor you and/or take a class so you are getting the most out of your equipment. I feel for all the children who don't have bikes, school clothes, and decent beds, because their dad bought a S&B to shoot pasties at the local 100 yard range. Don't overbuy, don't under buy, buy what the mission dictates. What Stain said^^^ This is a very good article that helped me decide on my scope purchase a few years ago... http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/ (7 pages) I didn't watch the video you posted, don't need to. For me variable power is the only choice, I won't be limited with a narrow fov , my weapon needs to be able to preform at 10 yards on a running deer or 500+ on a static target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Personally, I like fixed power scopes for rifles used within 400 yards and not so powerful...a 4x is quite a bit of magnification, 3x is a bit better. Great for snap shooting! IMO, where you get the advantage with a variable power is switching from a low power when attempting to locate your quarry, then being able to zoom in if necessary. Forgot where I was going next...got that hillbilly Thunderstruck stuck in my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Great points being made. Hopefully this thread will be of some help for other builders. I also like the idea of being able to choose my magnification. Need more local buddies that have a fixed scoped I can look through and see how I like it. What objective lense size do you gentlemen prefer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 What objective lense size do you gentlemen prefer? 32mm for fixed power. Standard 50mm for the larger variable scopes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Great points being made. Hopefully this thread will be of some help for other builders. I also like the idea of being able to choose my magnification. Need more local buddies that have a fixed scoped I can look through and see how I like it. What objective lense size do you gentlemen prefer? Search for the scope features you want such as reticle, turrets, power, exit pupil, eye relief, elevation and windage adjustments (MOA vs MIL) internal adjustment, etc and the objective size will take care of itself. There have been many bad guys laid to rest with simple 3.5-10X40 scopes. The MK 8 1.1-8 X24 is an exceptional piece and it is a small objective size. USO and Nightforce also have modest objective sizes. Please remember that within the past decade optics technology has increased significantly and the old parameters for performance, while relevant, don't always correlate to what dictates a highly performing scope today. Since you are very interested in shooting, take a precision rifle/hunting course. Guys show up with some great gear from bargain basement to very high end and the one thing the guys have in common is that are eager to tell you about their gear. Ask to look through their scopes, ask to shoot a couple of rounds. See how is does with the sun beating down or shining into the lenses. See how critical the eye relief is. etc. I do this all the time and believe I make better purchases because of it. Edited August 7, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Most who prefer fixed power scopes , are using the KISS principle," Keep It Simple Stupid " less moving components in a fixed power scope , one less thing to go wrong or come out of adjustment & there is some merit to it . Although that may be out dated with todays scopes , for the most part. You do get what you pay for , but that doesn't mean you need to spend more for your scope than for your rifle , to get good results . I have spent many years trying to break scopes while hunting ( along with all the hunters I know ) & that includes many drops , even from tree stands & if you buy a quality scope , you can't go wrong . I see some show there product or the ones they believe in , using it like a hammer, trying to screw it up in some way , well its good show ,but I don't buy scopes to use as a hammer & don't need to pay the extra cash for a duel purpose scope , when I can use a rock , if I need a hammer , if you get what I mean. <dontknow> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) ^^^^^ Lots of truth in there. Survivalshop did a great job of explaining the rationale behind fixed power scopes and the fact that it may no longer hold the same weight that it did 10 years ago. There are no shortages of SWFA SS 10X and Bushness Elite 10X on ranges. They both are good scopes for the money and have a great reputation. Interjecting my personal opinion, I think the SS has the edge over the Bushnell. Which has me agreeing with Suvivalshop once again. Quality gear will pay for itself over time. I never try to spend another man's dollar by pretending I know what he can afford, I am not alone in this because most of the senior members on here will ask a person's price range before slinging out the name of very expensive European optics. I am very fortunate and blessed to work with some very expensive optics and weapons through my work, but I am also a hunter, sportsman and recreational shooter trying to raise a rather large family, therefore in my personal collection I have varying optics ranging from the Leupold to Nikon to Vortex to Primary Arms (I am still loving the hell out of the 1-6X), some SFP, some FFP, some with Parallax adjustment some without some purchased used, some new.....you get my drift. I don't own any fixed power scopes (for reasons such as planeflyer21 pointed out) nor am I looking to purchase one in the near future....again..personal preference. Edited August 8, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 ^^^^ listen to the man. He's not bull$hitting. I've never met stain (face to face). But his opinion is not to be taken lightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali_Ed Posted August 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 God bless you all for this great info. Can ways count on you gentlemen. Maybe get a pin on this for future refrence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I recently went with a fixed power scope for a few reasons. Outside of shooting fixed 4x power scopes on airguns as a kid, I've never owned one on one of my current rifles - so that left me hesitant in the decision-buying process. The only fixed power scope I've ever shot on a military rifle was an ACOG 4x. I didn't care for it much, but that's just me. I had to narrow alot of things down, and it was more "the rifle" that decided more than anything else. That's a factor that you shouldn't overlook when looking for a scope, and up to this point, it WAS something I was overlooking. Once I realized it, the decision to buy this scope was very, very easy. I picked up the Nikon 3x-fixed "BDC Carbine" scope. Now, when I explain the rifle's characteristics, and my intent for it, along with Nikon's intent for this scope, it all becomes clear. By now, everybody has heard of the Mossberg MVP rifles - bolt guns that run detachable mages (AR mags - even the 308 MVP now). The "little" MVP is chambered for 5.56 NATO instead of other bolt gun offerings that are chambered in .223 Remington. Shoot whatever ammo you can get, be it .223 Rem or 5.56. It's also a 1:9 twist barrel, so projectiles come into play - 1:9 should shoot 55-grain ammo just fine. It's not going to excel at launching 77-grain Sierra BTHPs at 800 yards... The rifle's limitations are in the factory twist rate, which will dictate the ammo run through it, which will dictate the range it can be counted on for... So, for all that, it's pretty much subjected to 600 yards and under, without a doubt. Now, the purpose of the rifle. It feeds from any AR15 mag, has an 18" shallow-fluted, semi-heavy barrel, and should be good for multiple shots at different distances. Should maintain it's inherent accuracy, based on it's design. It's extremely light for what it is, and I wanted to keep it that way. Originally, I slapped a 3-9x40 on it, but the scope seemed like too much for the rifle, both in scope length and scope weight. It also made carry the damn thing around with one hand kinda awkward. I looked at several scopes for it, after having the 3-9 on there, and I was looking for something light, something short (carrying), and something that would still get me to 600 yards. I looked at a bunch of 1-4 scopes just prior to this, and almost went with another one. I almost had one to the counter, and spotted the Nikon BDC Carbine... Gave it a look, and really thought about it. Already setup from the factory for a 55-grain projo. BDC reticle set for a 200-yard crosshair zero, with two ticks in the BDC for 400 and 600. Light as all hell, short, too. Hmmm... Kinda REALLY fits the bill for this rifle. Fixed at 3x power makes it even lighter, shorter, and - as others have mentioned - less to worry about. Max range on it, via the BDC, is 600, and that's about the max range of the round I can run through this rifle... What's not to like? I left with it. Bottom line is this - you need to factor alot of stuff into buying a scope. It needs to fit YOUR needs, the RIFLE'S needs, it needs to fit your intent, your capabilities, the rifle's capabilities, the capabilities of your ammunition, etc. Once you find the scope that you need, you'll know it immediately. The first time you shoot it on that rifle, you'll know. It just might take two or three scopes to get there, but it is what it is. <thumbsup> Gratuitous Gun Porn, full rifle pic... Edited August 9, 2014 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Outside of shooting fixed 4x power scopes on airguns as a kid, I've never owned one on one of my current rifles. Hoooooly $HIT! I retract that statement!!! :eek: I've got a Weaver K4 on the M1903A4 Springfield rifle! I completely forgot about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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