guruofhotrod Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The mechanical properties of 9310 are quite comparable if not slightly better than C158 and generally speaking, make a stronger, tougher bolt when heat treated properly. It's slightly easier to source as well. If I was Continental Machine and Tool (CMT) and made tens of thousands (purely just a guess) bolts a month, I might have economies of scale more in my favor. I make 2-3,000 bolts a month, so I stick to 9310. Simple as that. As for testing, there are a couple schools of thought. The origins of MPI/HPT testing bolts as I understand it, mostly comes from how most manufacturers make their bolts. To make the stops that prevent the cam pin from dragging on the inside of the carrier (and also preventing the cam pin from being inserted the wrong way) most manufacturers stamp the bolt in a large press to create the stops. This creates lots of concentrated stresses in the cam pin area of the bolt, which would make them an excellent candidate for MPI/HPT testing to detect and surface imperfections. I take a slightly different approach in machining bolts. I machine the stops into the bolt and don't press them in so I'm not inducing unnecessary stresses into the bolt by stamping it. The bolt then gets shot peened to mitigate any surface stresses, heat treated, then coated/plated. Some may argue that this creates a bolt that they see as inferior. I tend to disagree. In the past year and a half, since I've been keeping better warranty records, I've had approximately 3 bolts break, so out of roughly ~30k bolts, I'd say that's pretty good odds. Thanks for your thoughts on the subject of bolt materials, I started a thread on the subject some time ago but it didn't result in any definite answers from a metallurgical perspective - on another note I noticed some references to a 9mm AR BCG on your site and am shopping for one, are you offering them? also I would be interested in some repair/service parts for bolts/BCG's Thanks again Edited February 24, 2015 by guruofhotrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonster Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I think the interest is there, Marketing them I think will be the challenge. If you can get the spares/parts in front of the right folks they will sell. If you could get your retailers to even offer the basic parts I think that would be a winner. Spare bolts would sell along with extractors, firing pins, gas rings, ejectors, springs and pins. Just offering a spare bolt and a bolt repair kit would be huge as nobody else seems to be. The other thing is as stand alone bits the spares might not be big dollars but as a percentage of profit the spares will put more of the price in your pocket. I dont know what they cost but my guess is $15-$20 for a firing pin or extractor or $10 for a set of pins and springs would be a pretty good profit margin compared to what you get on a complete BCG Edited February 24, 2015 by ironmonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guruofhotrod Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Something like this kit that Palmetto offers for AR-15's would be great! http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/repair-kits/complete-bolt-repair-kit.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonster Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I may be off on the prices, LWRC offers spares for there .308 bolt. A spare bolt though is $195, A extractor is $40 Firing pin is $8 Obviously if you can buy a complete BCG for $200 your not going to drop $195 on a bolt. I know there carrier is pretty fancy but I have not pulled a bolt to see how they compare ( I dont know if Rainer would appreciate that kind of fondling, I am in love with the LWRC REPR they have on display but its like $3400 so its kind of a love/hate relationship. I still pick it up every time I stop in :)) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemoak Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think the interest is there, Marketing them I think will be the challenge. If you can get the spares/parts in front of the right folks they will sell. If you could get your retailers to even offer the basic parts I think that would be a winner. Spare bolts would sell along with extractors, firing pins, gas rings, ejectors, springs and pins. Just offering a spare bolt and a bolt repair kit would be huge as nobody else seems to be. The other thing is as stand alone bits the spares might not be big dollars but as a percentage of profit the spares will put more of the price in your pocket. I dont know what they cost but my guess is $15-$20 for a firing pin or extractor or $10 for a set of pins and springs would be a pretty good profit margin compared to what you get on a complete BCG Something like this kit that Palmetto offers for AR-15's would be great! http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/upper-parts/repair-kits/complete-bolt-repair-kit.html Thanks to both of you. I'll try to work up some pricing over the next few days and get some pictures taken to get parts kits/repair parts listed on my site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Sadly, I can't say that I was on the forum before the comment. I have pretty strong analytic coding built into my website, so I can see where it is link from, demographics of who visits, etc, so I decided to hang out and answer any questions. Well, you're stuck here now... This place is like quicksand. <lmao> The issue of spares is a big deal, and it's awesome to hear that you'd look into it, especially this quickly after a request - it's damn good to have you here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Spare parts kits are always good to have around ,but sometimes had to come by . Good to see you here . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemoak Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I'll finally have some time this week to get the rebuild kits up on my site. Can someone give me a list of parts they'd like to see in one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonster Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I would think a couple of options. One would be 2 sets of gas rings, extractor and ejector springs. Maybe another would be extractor, pin and a couple extractor springs and yet another everything that comes off the bolt. I personally would buy several sets of gas rings, a spare firing pin and a couple complete sets of everything that comes off the bolt. You could even do a BCG kit with a cotter key, cam pin and firing pin. I know its probably a pain to have a bunch of options. I really dont have any idea what is going to fail on a .308 BCG. On 5.56 it seems like I have replaced several extractor pins, at least one extractor, extractor springs and enhancers and several sets of gas rings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) Can someone give me a list of parts they'd like to see in one? 1. Extractor setup, by itself. 2. Ejector setup, by itself. 3. Rings, by themselves. 4. Extractor setup, ejector setup, and rings - that's everything that comes off the bolt. Seems like alot of options, but it's not. As a vendor, it might be more work for you to package those kits, but as a buyer - nobody packages that for the .308 ARs. If I break an extractor, that's all I need to fix. If I break an ejector, that's all I need to replace. It's never bad to buy just gas rings as a backup. If I want a complete bolt rebuild kit, I need #4 as a spare parts kit to keep in my box. That would cover all bases, with all buyers. Though it might suck to setup in the beginning, but as a vendor you would be the only place around that someone could go to fix their singular problem, or just buy spare parts. My $0.02. Edited March 10, 2015 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guruofhotrod Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) In addition to the suggestions already listed, I'd be up for the same that palmetto has listed for the AR15 with the possible exception of the gas key screws: 2 Firing Pins 2 Firing Pin Retaining Pins 2 Gas Key Screws 6 Gas Rings 1 Extractor 1 Extractor Spring 1 O Ring 1 Extractor Spring Insert 1 Extractor Pin 1 Ejector 1 Ejector Roll Pin 1 Ejector Spring Edited March 10, 2015 by guruofhotrod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 10, 2015 Report Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have a DPMS Bolt spare parts kit & it came with : Firing Pin , Extractor & spring , Ejector & spring , & Gas rings I'll take a photo later . Good kit to have in you Pistol Grip or Stock or just having around . I also like to have a complete spare Bolt around for the 308 , but I want NIB & you can get them , but only as a complete BCG . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemoak Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 (edited) I think I got all the bases covered with small parts kits. There are a couple different kits available at hopefully what's considered a reasonable cost. I did put some complete bolts us as well. Please excuse the cell phone pictures that'll do until I get some better ones taken. http://www.dwilsonmfg.com/store/p24/308_Bolt_Carrier_small_parts_kits.html Extractor Rebuild Kit QTY 1 Extractor QTY 1 Extractor Retaining Pin QTY 2 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 2 Reliability Doughnuts Ejector Rebuild Kit QTY 1 Ejector QTY 2 Ejector Springs QTY 2 Ejector Retaining Pins Gas Ring Kit QTY 6 Gas Rings Bolt Rebuild Kit QTY 1 Extractor QTY 2 Extractor Retaining Pins QTY 2 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 2 Reliability Doughnut QTY 1 Ejector QTY 2 Ejector Springs QTY 2 Ejector Retaining Pins QTY 6 Gas Rings Basic BCG Spare Parts Kit QTY 2 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 2 Reliability Doughnuts QTY 1 Ejector QTY 2 Ejector Springs QTY 2 Ejector Retaining Pins QTY 3 Gas Rings QTY 1 Firing Pin QTY 1 Firing Pin Retainer Master BCG Spare Parts Kit QTY 1 Extractor QTY 2 Extractor Retaining Pins QTY 3 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 3 Reliability Doughnuts QTY 2 Ejectors QTY 3 Ejector Springs QTY 3 Ejector Retaining Pins QTY 9 Gas Rings QTY 2 Firing Pins QTY 2 Firing Pin Retainers QTY 1 Cam pins QTY 3 Gas key screws Edited March 11, 2015 by unclemoak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 unclemoak, I can't even explain how awesome it is that you did this. Very, very cool. Can we add these to the cart and buy them, right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemoak Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 unclemoak, I can't even explain how awesome it is that you did this. Very, very cool. Can we add these to the cart and buy them, right now? Yessir. You'll get an email to confirm your order and another one when it ships out. Everything gets sent via USPS Priority. I can usually have stuff in the mail within a day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonster Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 So.... Any issues with compatibility I should know about before sending you money? I currently have 4 .308 BCG, Two from Aero Precision and two from Aims surplus (they look like they where built by the same shop) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just fired up the BCG Master Rebuild Kit - thank you again for setting that up. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malig8r Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Just purchased the BCG Master Rebuild kit as well. I like having spare parts for when Murphy pays a visit! Appreciate your willingness to facilitate our forum's request so quickly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemoak Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 So.... Any issues with compatibility I should know about before sending you money? I currently have 4 .308 BCG, Two from Aero Precision and two from Aims surplus (they look like they where built by the same shop) These should work with all DPMS style bolts and carriers. I know there are a few brands of bolts out there with proprietary extractor/ejector designs that these kits won't work with. I can work on putting together a list to post as well. Any help with figuring out all the brands to look at would be appreciated. Just purchased the BCG Master Rebuild kit as well. I like having spare parts for when Murphy pays a visit! Appreciate your willingness to facilitate our forum's request so quickly! No problem. It's you guys that keep the lights on, so I like to keep you happy and give you what you want <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 Good Job ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher67 Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 I think I got all the bases covered with small parts kits. There are a couple different kits available at hopefully what's considered a reasonable cost. I did put some complete bolts us as well. Please excuse the cell phone pictures that'll do until I get some better ones taken. http://www.dwilsonmfg.com/store/p24/308_Bolt_Carrier_small_parts_kits.html Extractor Rebuild Kit QTY 1 Extractor QTY 1 Extractor Retaining Pin QTY 2 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 2 Reliability Doughnuts Ejector Rebuild Kit QTY 1 Ejector QTY 2 Ejector Springs QTY 2 Ejector Retaining Pins Gas Ring Kit QTY 6 Gas Rings Bolt Rebuild Kit QTY 1 Extractor QTY 2 Extractor Retaining Pins QTY 2 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 2 Reliability Doughnut QTY 1 Ejector QTY 2 Ejector Springs QTY 2 Ejector Retaining Pins QTY 6 Gas Rings Basic BCG Spare Parts Kit QTY 2 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 2 Reliability Doughnuts QTY 1 Ejector QTY 2 Ejector Springs QTY 2 Ejector Retaining Pins QTY 3 Gas Rings QTY 1 Firing Pin QTY 1 Firing Pin Retainer Master BCG Spare Parts Kit QTY 1 Extractor QTY 2 Extractor Retaining Pins QTY 3 Nested Extractor Springs QTY 3 Reliability Doughnuts QTY 2 Ejectors QTY 3 Ejector Springs QTY 3 Ejector Retaining Pins QTY 9 Gas Rings QTY 2 Firing Pins QTY 2 Firing Pin Retainers QTY 1 Cam pins QTY 3 Gas key screws Awesome unclemoak, thank you sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonster Posted March 11, 2015 Report Share Posted March 11, 2015 All right man... I bought $180 bucks worth of bits. Once they show I'll let you know how they fit :)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dave, I've got my tracking number already - and I greatly appreciate that. Didn't eevn go 24 hours from the time of the order. For that, you rock... <thumbsup> It's odd to see this kind of response in this industry... You asked what we'd like to see, we told you, and you made the product available damn near immediately. That just doesn't happen in this industry very often. I'll be a customer for life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelDeVille Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 I gotcha bookmarked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malig8r Posted March 12, 2015 Report Share Posted March 12, 2015 Dave, I've got my tracking number already - and I greatly appreciate that. Didn't eevn go 24 hours from the time of the order. For that, you rock... <thumbsup> It's odd to see this kind of response in this industry... You asked what we'd like to see, we told you, and you made the product available damn near immediately. That just doesn't happen in this industry very often. I'll be a customer for life. I agree, very impressed with the turn around time. I also received my USPS tracking number the same day as I placed the order. I have your website listed in my favorites now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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