98Z5V

That's the other thing I was wondering about - speed. Good cutter, too much speed. I've watched my machinist go off about a part he's experimenting with, because the speed was too fast, and he jacked it all up. It's quite awesome when he does it - it's like a Tourette's Guy explosion...

They have a dull cutter on that thing when they cut the cam pin cutout, and displace metal down into the BCG channel? I can only guess, I don't know. That BCG slides easy in that upper now - it removed what it had to, via the force of .308 Winchester. It also slides easy in the AP M5 upper I put it in...

Strange. Found something else. Steve shipped me this upper just as he received it - even in the same box, which is a badass box! Anyway, has shielded round handguards, delta ring, handguard cap, etc. So, I went down to the Gun Pusher and snatched a .750 lo-pro YHM gas block for this. Since it came with a handguard cap on it, I put that back on the barrel, then put on the lo-pro gas block. Wow. The gas port in the barrel is right at that point where it's about to be covered up... (They drill the 0.125" gashole in gas block by going straight up through the rear mounting screw-hole. You test gas port location-to-the-shoulder by installing these gas blocks, and roll them over 180 degrees - it'll show you where your gas port is in the barrel, in relation to the shoulder on the barrel) WITH handguard end cap in place: Handguard endcap removed, gas block back on... Here's an Armalite AR-10 Carbine gas tube installed - I will certainly be taking advantage of all available gas pressure, instead of giving up some gas pressure. Also, this is more of a gas TIMING thing, than it is about "pressure..." Here's how the rifle will get shot and tested first thing in the morning... If I had the rail in there, it would look like this... I won't have the rail on there - I want to be able to get to whatever I need to, primarily the gas block. It's at 0.081" right now, and I want it to be easy to get to if I need to go up from there...

Something else, as I'm disassembling and assembling. I noticed that the rear lug on the PSA upper was longer than other things I'm comparing it to. So is the front lug, barely. I noticed this immediately, when I set the pivot pin with an AP M5 lower, and tried to pivot the receivers open... They'll open just enough to get a BCG and charging handle out, but that's about it, and they bind. When I pinned it to the DPMS LR308 lower, they would pivot even less - you couldn't freely open it to the point to get a BCG and charging handle out, you had to fight it a little to get it to open to that point - binding of that front lug, as it pivots, against the front of the lower receivers. The rear lug is quite longer than the AP M5. The front, just barely - but that's enough to cause it to bind. Aero on top, PSA on bottom - you can see the additional material below the takedown/pivot pin holes on the PSA. Again, we always knew this was a proprietary design. We've never seen how proprietary, until now. Aero rear - I measured from the lowest point of the lug, up to the receiver mating area. Aero front: PSA rear: PSA front:

It's easy to see the difference between the AR15 midlength gas tube (bottom) and the AR-10 Carbine gas tube (top). Remember that increased height over bore I mentioned earlier? The Armalite gas tube accounts for that. The AR15 gas tube has shallower bends, because it's made for a lower height over bore.

Bolt components all look great. Good stuff. Gas rings are tight in the bore of the BCG body, ejector is strong, doesn't stick anywhere in it's travel. That extractor spring is a dual nested spring setup, and it's stiff. I'll take spares with me when I shoot this, if that turns into an issue. Easy swap if it's something that looks like it might be an issue. A trip to the Gun Pusher will happen in a few, picking up a low profile gas block for range use. That will be easier to work with out in the dirt, over messing with the FSB and taper pins. I'll get this barrel swapped into a Aero M5 upper in order to shoot. It'll be on an M5 lower with AR-10 Carbine recoil system, so we'll be comparing apples to apples; same thing Gopher is using. I'm going to replace the gas tube with an AR-10 gas tube first, and just shoot it like that,before I even drill the gas port in the barrel. I want to see what happens, before I drill it, and after I drill it. Either way, it's getting drilled to 0.081". I tested the BCG and charging handle in the AP M5 upper already, and it moves freely, no hangups. Didn't think there would be. It'll function fine in there. More updates in awhile.

That is gonna be wicked... Get it together already, man!...

I think you should go back to page 1 here and really look at how this all unfolded. I'm simply stating what I'm finding in this upper, and you're right there trying to counter what I'm reporting on it. I even put up the direct pics of what I'm talking about, and you're right there again, telling me that what I'm seeing isn't an issue. really look at it - You can post anything you want here, where ever you want. All you're doing in this thread is arguing the information that I've found... What I bolded up there - that's not happening at all. You don't have to agree 100% with me on what I'm finding, not at all, and I don't care if you agree at all. However, you telling me that the issues I am seeing are not a problem, and then pushing that... that is not how this works, either...

Fall Shoot is 18~21 October, man. Clear your calendar, and get to the Phoenix area. When you see what shows up, you might pee a little...

Oh, I dug it out alright. Anyone that's been to my house knows the chaos. Many here can testify, and have been witness - I can forget about shiit that I have, until someone reminds me, and that's not from stupidity or Alzheimers... I think Doc was gonna shiit himself when I started digging out some of them... For bfoosh, that might think I'm a noob at this. I posted a pic up there, way up, of the DPMS lower that I was using to test this upper - did you catch the date imbedded in that pic? It was 2010-something, man. I've been doing this for a minute, on large-frame ARs, and I'm not new like you are on it, with the 8 PSAs you have. Here's what I had to dig out of the way just to GET to that real DPMS rifle... If you can positively identify all those in that pic, I'll PayPal you $100... My point is easy, here - don't think you're an end-all, be-all, know-it-all because you say you have 8 PSA large frames. You're not. You have zero variety, and zero other experience in other platforms. Therefore, since you got lucky and all your PSAs work, you think you have all the information. That's not always the case. You didn't even know all your gas tubes were too short until this thread came up. There are always other fish in the sea that will eat your as$. There's something out there that will eat my As$.... It won't be you, though... I've been doing this for alot longer than you have, over a WAY broader spectrum, with alot more experience. You won't be that guy that tells me, "With all my PSA experience..."

Called that one, from three states away. 0.073" cleared, 0.076" did not. Too small for this barrel confguration. About 0.080" will be the minimum, and that number might go north of that, for reliable function. I'm 2 out of 3 so far - not counting that weak recoil system that was already replaced. Didn't even take the bolt apart yet, but that's first thing in the morning. I've got $10 on that extractor spring... I have spares, for 308s, no worries. Before I remove the barrel from the upper and mount it in an upper that works with my lowers, I'll get a video of something I found odd, and disturbing. There are extremely long lugs on this upper. Front lug is long, has an affect. Rear lug I already measured out at 0.040" longer than other 308AR systems I have. Makes no sense, unless you make it longer so it won't pin to other manufacturers lowers... Not to worry Steve, at all, it still works - just something I saw, man, and I don't understand why...

It's gonna run, brother, before I send it back. It's gonna run this weekend. I hope it runs like a runaway M-60, kinda... Not really, or we'll both be in jail...

That certainly doesn't look like a receiver extension that is 7 5/8"-ish internal depth. You are aware of this chart from Slash, I'd hope: Click it to make it bigger. That buffer you are linking is 2.500" long. If you run that with your (now fixed) recoil system, you will crash the hell out of your BCG into your lower receiver. The cycling issues you had before were from a wrong-combination of components. The buffer was right. The Spring was right. The receiver extension had a 7.000" internal depth. THAT was the problem. You need to get one of the receiver extensions I told you about, above, further up in the thread, to correct this issue. I can tell you this - a 7.000" internal depth extension, a 2.500" buffer, and the EA1095 spring - doesn't work too well. I don't know where you found en extension that looks to be 7.25"... Just get the correct extension, and you'll have a great recoil system. Armalite or VLTOR, pick it. Nobody else makes it. Nobody.

Nope, they're known for weak recoil systems, that are nowhere up to spec for a large frame AR, and I've extensively proven that time and time again. Too many times. I'm specifically right here in this thread, with the gun owner, for that very reason. I sent him an AR-10 Carbine Recoil System complete, to correct what he stated about his firearm function. That fixed SOME of it, but there was more. Way more. I asked him to send me the upper, and here we are. I feel bad, because Steve spent his own money on a gun, that doesn't function. I can guarantee you that I'm faster as fixing the issues his gun has, than the factory is - and I'll guarantee my repairs and fixes. His gun will run. It will run before it leaves my house, and I will know that, for my own peace of mind, or I just can't live with myself. Because, that is my word. It's what I said I would do. I'll tell you what - you, bfoosh, got me all fired up about PSA, with the talks we had before you posted all your info. 100% American company, out there for gun owners. Damn, was I fired up for them, - and happy for them. They CRUSH the AR15 market. Crush it. There's a pattern for that, though. Everybody makes it, and it works. Other companies don't crush it like PSA does, though. They need to LISTEN to the issues with their PA-10. They scrapped the first one - why? Now there's a Gen 2, and it doesn't work 100% of the time, everytime, because it has issues... All of those issues are documented on this board, and I can point out every single one of them. You think Mark LaRue would let this kind of information go, if there were problems with his rifles?... He'd damn sure listen, and fix them. If he had that issue. You've been a huge asset to the PSA information, with what you've done, and what you've found, and what you've reported. You're blindly ignoring the fact that there could be issues with this platform, though, and you're making excuses for the hardcore information that I've found with this upper receiver, complete. You're blinded by your loyalty, and its affecting what you're posting here. You need to really go back, and look at what you've said here, and think about what I've found here... There is a profound difference between those two things. This upper receiver will run like a champ before it leaves me, and it will always run like a champ for it's owner. That doesn't have anything to do with a single thing, other than my word to the owner of it...

I agree after I fixed your comment. They ARE valuable in the AR15 Market. They're great at that. Not so much on the large-frame market, until they start listening, and fixing their problems. UNTIL THEY START LISTENING, AND FIXING THEIR PROBLEMS. I don't think I need to say that again, but I will if I have to... For the record, you were not right at the beginning. This gas system is fucked. The gas tube is too short, they don't have any idea of the dimensions on a large-frame gas system, and they're using a combination of "almost right" gas port distance-drilling and AR15 gas tubes, and thinking, "It'll be okay..." It's not okay. Their recoil system is weak as shiit, and they're compensating for that with a too-small gas port diameter in the barrel. Now, how right were you, again?... You know, in the beginning?... It IS the gas system, and a BUNCH of other shiit wrong with this gun... Tell you what - I'll just fux all the other shiit, and not touch his gas system. I'll send it back to him. When it doesn't work for him when I send it back, I'lljust tell him you said the gas system was okay, so I didn't touch it. Hell no, I'm not gonna do that. I;m fixing ALL the problems with Steve's gun, and I;m test firing it to death, and I'm send it back to him fully operational, with my personal guarantee that I fixed his gun. If you have a problem with that, you let me know. Otherwise, stay out of this thread, with all your "perfectly fine PSAs that all have shortass gas tubes, " whilst telling everyone that PSA is all roses and cherries and whipped cream on top.

Oh, it hit. Several times. It clearanced itself , though, and it's smooth now. There are no cyclic issues or binding. But it shouldn't have happened. Somebody fucked up a machining operation, I'm thinking - but I'm no machinist. Based on what I have done in the past, I'm thinking something was done out-of-order, and caused those raised edges around the cam pin cutout, that ended up getting "clearanced" by force. .308 Win force. The thing that I'm more concerned with beyond that is those chatter marks in the cam pin channel on the BCG body. That is fucked up, and should never happen. Maybe it happened because of the "clearancing" on that cam pin cutout, and it stopped or slowed down the BCG body in travel, and slammed the shiit out of the cam pin and it's channel until it cleared everything out. No matter what, that is fucked up. I need a machinist to give an opinion, based on my guesstimations.

@bfoosh006 look... I appreciate your input on the PSAs, I really do. You pioneering the technical info on them when nobody else would, and you love them. You need to understand something, though. I'm here documenting PROBLEMS with a PSA upper that I've got in my hands, and I'm gonna fix it for the PSA customer. It will run like a champ when I'm done with all the shiit I discover about it. I don't need you in this thread, second-guessing everything I find, and coming up with any lameass excuses for the shiit I find. I don't need it. The input you're providing, for the most part, is just a distraction from the problem at hand. That's all it is. Your confirmation that PSA uses their own bolt catches was good - got it. That's all I need. I suspected something was fucked up there, and you confirmed that yes, it is fucked up. Otherwise, you defending them for all the fucked up shiit I'm finding in this upper - is just a distraction.

I don't own a single Armalite rifle, at all. Not even one. I use some Armalite parts, because they're far superior in the recoil-system category, though, on these 308s... I own one Armalite BCG, because I have one Armalite Barrel. That's about as far as it goes, though. Good try.

That should never, ever happen, under any conditions or circumstances. Gopher sent me his upper, only. All the lowers, to include bolt catches installed in those lowers - are mine. Sent upper only.

The concerns of the peening issues in the upper, from previous pics. There's something there, and I said I wanted to get it on my hands and look at it before I commented. Well, there is something there, but it "clearanced itself..." The BCG hit the upper and removed material from both the upper receiver and the BCG body (aluminum was removed from the upper, steel was marked on the BCG from that...). It's on the cam pin cutout side of the receiver, which to me, tells me it was a machining operation that displaced metal, causing interference. I'm no machinist. I'm no AR machinist. I don't know what steps-in-the-operation that things occur, when machining an AR. I've certainly "machined" before, though. Every operation has an effect. Since this is the first time I've ever seen anything like this, I can only guess. On other guns, I've not seen this. On this gun, it's here. Do you maching the cam pin cutout before you bore the cylinder for the BCG to ride in? If that's the case, then you'd never see this kind of stuff. However, if you machine the clyinder for the BCG to ride in, then you machine the cam pint cutout (too fast, dull bit, whatever), then you'll create an issue for your self, and the edges around that cam pin cutout will be raised - and create interference. I can't blame this on the BCG machining, but something DID happen in the machining process in order for this kind of interference to occur, in the first place. You machinists - you tell me. If you're not a real machinist, well, then... don't need to hear it. I'd like to hear from @Matt.Cross and @308kiwi on this... There is mild contact before the cam pin cutout, and there's some pretty decent contact after the cam pin cutout - when you're looking at the forward travel of a BCG... BCG body on the cam pin cutout side has more wear on it than the other side, when you're looking at those bearing surfaces. Scary shiit right here!!! What the hell are those chatter marks on the body of the BCG, for the cam pin?!!? Why are those even there?!!?

I have options. Two options, when you look at the above. There is a third option: I will not hesitate to relieve the backside of the bolt stop paddle on my DPMS LR, so it will clear on that PSA upper. That's not gonna bother me a bit, and it'll never affect the structural integrity or strength of a bolt catch. That can be done. For the record, here's the lower that the PSA upper pins to, but it doesn't function because of that bolt stop cutout in the upper of the PSA... This is one bad bitch...

So, all those pics above were trying to get something functional from the PSA lower and any one of the many AP M5 sets that I have. Fail. That description above ^^^ is the mating to a true DPMS LR-308 lower. It doesn't work... I have two solutions for Gopher, and I need to hear back from him. I'm fine with either one, but I need to hear from him - there are marks on that upper, and the bolt catch paddle cutout in the upper. It's happened before. I can relieve that, and make it higher, and cerakote that upper. Never know it was worked on. I'll do that, if he's had that issue before. If he HAS has that issue before, it will affect his rifle function. Or, the upper is almost apart. I'lljust build that barrel into an AR M5 set, and solve the functional issue in it (gasport size, gas tube, tune it to a real recoil system, etc.)...

Fanboy it up all you want, brother. The dimensions on this setup have some serious issues. It's completely proprietary, just in frame dimensions. I'd rather fight a combination of trying to make an Armalite lower fit a DPMS upper with RRA guts. That's just receiver dimensions, I'm talking about. That doesn't even account for functional issues that I'm trying to solve. You have the connection with PSA - make sure they see this thread.

Now, moving to upper-to-lower fitment, on the AP M5 lower. I mentioned it above - the cutout in the upper on the PSA Gen 2 isn't high enough to pin it to an Aero M5 lower, without bolt catch interference. Here's where it hits - and there's some silver aluminum there - I don't think I did that. That might have been from before, when Steve was trying to close his own gun. I'll touch it up, no matter what. It's a fitment issue on the AP M5. Here's where that leaves you, when trying to close the upper and lower, if you don't move it out of the way... Never gonna happen, won't ever pin together, if you don't move that bolt catch from what it's interfering on... Once you kick it out of the way, you're close, on the AP M5... Look CLOSE in this pic at that lower receiver and upper receiver fitment, at the top! Aero M5 will never work on a PSA PA-10 upper, because of that... This is what your bolt catch looks like, though... you can see that it's already raised - it's not flat against the lower shelf, at rest... Here's the standard PSA PA-10 charging handle, and how it's clamped down on the top of the upper receiver - and it's nowhere in position to get pinned on the takedown pin. The BCM Gunfighter was a cutout on the underside of it's charging handle for things like this, but it's not gonna make it either, not with the M5 lower dimensions... It's nowhere near being in a position to pin, in this pic...