shepp Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Good read http://bearingarms.com/atfs-armor-piercing-ammo-ban-may-spectacularly-backfire-renew-interest-military-style-rifles/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 (edited) ^need to help me stir up the facebook arguments a little better bud...:D Edited March 2, 2015 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm wishful in my thoughts , but then reality sets in & if this A$$hole backs down from this , it will be the first time the has done so . We think in logic & common sense , they have a mission & a plan & are doubling down on it. I really don't see our Elected officials doing anything, but mouth off , I think they are all in it together to undermine & destroy our Constitution & our way of life & no one is doing anything to stop them . <dontknow> This asshat has nothing to lose , he doesn't care , at all . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 made this one just for the occasion lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 (edited) Its been a long time since I believed any elected officials at the national level was really looking out for us. Let's hope Congress doesn't back off with this. The ATF needs to be brought to heel. Beruacrats are not law makers and these chuckleheads can't even follow their own rhetoric. They wax on about "intent" when it comes to the Sig brace and other "guidelines" that they want to flip flop on... What about "intent" of xm855? Was it ever "intended" to be a handgun round? Ever try to conceal carry an AR "handgun"? This ban fails at passing even the lowest common denominator of the common sense test and it has absolutely nothing to do with xm855 or LEOPA. It has everything to do with an elite group of gun grabbing fascist megalomaniacs trying to shove their collective cocks down the throats of the serfdom. If we dont everyone of us fight this here and now to the point where it is stopped then don't bitch about it when m193 is next followed by 6.5, 6.8, 7.62x39, .300blk, .308 (last i checked it was possible - even if impracticle to do a .308 pistol build) 6.5 Creed, etc... Anything you can adapt to fit in an AR 15/10 or AK frame... kiss it goodbye and thats just the beginning.. I know it, you know it, they know it. Keep writing your congressmen, get your comments in To ATF even if you think it wont matter. (I have a very long one that will go out today) They WANT you to feel defeated, they WANT you to be a good little lap dog, they WANT you to sit on the sidelines because you believe it doesnt matter. Well F@CK that! Get involved and take action, not just this time, every time.. BULLSHITS LIKE THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO SAND..EVER! ( Posting rants and diatribes such as this one on Internet forums is NOT taking action BTW) Edited March 3, 2015 by AdamO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 ArmaLite and Sig both sell .308 pistols now, maybe others do as well. I doubt it will be long before the gun grabbers address this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 ArmaLite and Sig both sell .308 pistols now, maybe others do as well. I doubt it will be long before the gun grabbers address this. Then time to get involved wouldn't you say? Even if you think it's throwing pearls to swine. It's better than doing nothing.... Here, you can even use my letter if you don't want to write your own. (I stole some bits and pieces of other peoples letters myself ;) ). <copy here> To Whom It May Concern: I am submitting the following comments in response to the BATFE text titled “ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” I would like to address several issues concerning the repeal of the armor piercing exemption granted to M855/SS109 5.56mm ball ammunition. To begin, ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” and the impending repeal of the M855/SS109 exemption is a gross misinterpretation of 18 USC 921(a)(17) and represents an unconstitutional overreach of BATFE authority to ban such ammunition. As cited in the ATF FRAMEWORK, 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) provides: (B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means— (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. M855/SS109 categorically fails to meet either of these requirements: (a) M855/SS109 ammunition fails to meet criteria set forth under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(i) M855/SS109 ammunition construction consists of a copper alloy jacket over a combinational steel and lead core. It is not however constructed entirely of any one alloy or even entirely of a combination of alloys set forth in the plain language of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B). (b) M855/SS109 ammunition fails to meet criteria set forth under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B)(ii) As evidenced by MIL-C-63989C (AR), the M855/SS109 ammunition was originally designed for use in the M16A2 rifle and M239 machine gun. This fails the requirement of a .22 caliber “designed and intended for use in a handgun”. Furthermore, it cannot be argued that 5.56mm projectiles are larger than .22 caliber if the generally accepted rounding mathematical principals are observed. The metric 5.56mm classification when converted to inches, this is equal to .2189 inches or .22 caliber. Even the .22 Long Rifle which measures .222 inches carries a metric definition of 5.6 x 15mm whereas 5.56 is less than 5.6. Given the width of a human hair is .003-.005” thick, the difference between .219, .22, .222, and even .223 is truly “splitting hairs” thus it must be held that both 5.56mm and its civilian counterpart, .223 Remington ammunition does not exceed the definition of a .22 caliber projectile. Criteria set forth under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) is not met. The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution states: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. As it applies to X855/SS109 ammunition: The New Oxford American Dictionary defines “Arms” as: plural noun 1. Weapons and ammunition; armaments. Secondly, it is found in United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939): The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time. http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=307&invol=174 The AR-15 clearly fall under the protections of the United States Constitution Second Amendment and us upheld by caselaw in that it is the civilian semi-automatic counterpart of the military M16 and M4 and shares identical receiver, bolt, barrel, chamber, and other components with these military weapons systems. Furthermore, with more than 5 million AR-15 semi-automatic rifles in the hands of private citizens it cannot be argued that the AR-15 weapons system is not“in common use”. M855/SS109 ammunition, being among some of the most common and redily available ammunition for the M16, M4, and civilian AR-15 platforms, and failing to meet the legal criteria of “armor piercing”, set forth by 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B), is afforded the same constitutional protections under the definition of “Arms”. Any attempt or future attempt to categorically ban ammunition for any class of weapon deemed legal to own by the American public goes against the fundamental protections of the United States Constitution and is a direct violation of the Bill of Rights. Please withdraw Denise Brown’s “ATF FRAMEWORK FOR DETERMINING WHETHER CERTAIN PROJECTILES ARE “PRIMARILY INTENDED FOR SPORTING PURPOSES” WITHIN THE MEANING OF 18 U.S.C. 921 (a) (17) ©” and terminate any further efforts to prohibit civilian possession or distribution of M855 projectiles and/or cartridges. Please extend all of these comments to cover any and all cartridges conforming to NATO STANAG 4172, which are functionally and constructively identical to U.S. Army M855 cartridges. V/r, //signed Adam O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 id suggest removing the smileys first ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 HAHA!! yeah right? Forum formatted those Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 ^need to help me stir up the facebook arguments a little better bud...:D Gotta gimme alil heads up I don't see any wives posting in there? Are you the one who pm'd me today??? id suggest removing the smileys first ;) That's funny poop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 I was talking smack to the guy who wanted to ban all lead ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Ohh that idiot........ I tried he wasn't biting Ps it's hard putting screen names with FB names I got you on my radar now lol Edited March 5, 2015 by shepp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 Since we've got a large Free State of Arizona population here.... Remember these names: Raul Grijalva Ruben Gallego Kyrsten Sinema These are you representatives who did NOT sign Rep. Goodlatte's letter to the ATF. I'm looking at you Phoenix dewllers - you guys have got some work to do next time these seats are up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 seems I see those names pretty often, and always on the opposite side of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 5, 2015 Report Share Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) There is one Company making a hand gun in .223 , a single shot I believe , I saw an add I think it was in American Rifleman . I really do not see why they are even doing this , if its already illegal to use AP in a handgun .They are saying that because 0. 01% of gun owners might use this ammo , they need to ban it ! Communism doesn't need to use or make common sense , its the will of those in power who make their own sense . What A$$Holes ! Edited March 5, 2015 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 There is one Company making a hand gun in .223 , a single shot I believe , I saw an add I think it was in American Rifleman . I really do not see why they are even doing this , if its already illegal to use AP in a handgun .They are saying that because 0. 01% of gun owners might use this ammo , they need to ban it ! Communism doesn't need to use or make common sense , its the will of those in power who make their own sense . What A$$Holes ! Not that I want it but Id they're so worried about it they need to ban guns like the "contender" or the s&w 500 then too cuz level II body armor won't stop those "hand gun" projectiles either, but it's really not about the armor piercing capabilities of m855 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 My super conspiracy theory buddy just suggested this ban is about the effectiveness of m855 against DARPA robots. true story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 My super conspiracy theory buddy just suggested this ban is about the effectiveness of m855 against DARPA robots. true story. I still think it's the economy. Next quarter they will post "Consumer spending rose 18% last quarter, mostly in retail and internet sales." Then slow economy again, come November they'll start talking AWB again, then finish off the year with banner numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 You need to read this , make sure you read the part where it says you could be a Felon by possession of Green Tip ammo . WTF http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 guess ill be needing some paint stripper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 FUKEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 guess ill be needing some paint stripper. Right!!! And pull it off the stripper clips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 My super conspiracy theory buddy just suggested this ban is about the effectiveness of m855 against DARPA robots. true story. You need to tell the full story on this one... <lmao> You need to read this , make sure you read the part where it says you could be a Felon by possession of Green Tip ammo . WTF http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/03/06/exclusive-atf-has-already-banned-common-at15-green-tip-ammunition-n1966761 Bring it. Come and get 'em. Right!!! And pull it off the stripper clips Those skinny little bastards are still legal - right now. No need to yank them off the strippers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 You need to tell the full story on this one... <lmao> Bring it. Come and get 'em. Those skinny little bastards are still legal - right now. No need to yank them off the strippers. Yes the whole story! Yes come get them and isn't about all you can get on strippers m855? Either way I'll thro it in a lake before I give it to the government so they can cashè it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 7, 2015 Report Share Posted March 7, 2015 (edited) You need to tell the full story on this one I've been considering starting a thread in clubhouse about our daily discussions. everything from chem trails to the pope is a Jesuit satan worshipper who is prophesied to bring about the end of days. he was a disciple of Alex Jones until the story broke that Alex is actually a CIA messenger of doubt who was a comedian in the 70 s who fakes his own death. yup. it's like that. Edited March 7, 2015 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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