EasyEJL Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) So I won a set of these for free, an eagle Rhodesian recon vestSo i'm looking at plates. It doesn't come with the rear or side carriers.Problem is i'm broke as heck. What I found that i'm seriously considering is getting this or the 8x10 versionhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/221416644776?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITuncoated, raw steel level III certified plates. I can do a base/prime coat on them myself cheap enough and just use it with the front plate only till I get the additional carriers. Also, since one plate is flat, I can use it in the backpack without needing the addon rear plate carrier for the vest.What do you think? Its $105 to get a single front plate coated with the anti-spall/anti-frag anywhere I can find it in steel and up from there for any other materials. Edited February 23, 2015 by EasyEJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microgunner Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Sounds like a good economic solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't get one without a good anti-spal coating. place some fruit around a AR500 target and pump a few rounds into it. see if you want your chin and arms looking like that. armor has only one purpose. only one reason to buy it. because you accept the possibility that some poop might go down, and you might take fire. if you are planning for that contingency, than it only makes sense to save up a few more bucks for a coated plate. good score on the rig btw. Eagle stuff is pretty nice. Edited February 23, 2015 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Nice score on the Eagle rig!Avoid AR500 plates. Save your money for composite plates. There are good composite plates you can get around $150 and good deals on used plates (not shot) are always on places like LF and M4C. A couple years ago I got a pair of ESAPIs for $350 shipped. They weren't stolen (no US Gov't markings or stickers), and had recently been inspected (x-ray'd) for cracks/integrity.AR500 doesn't perform well against high velocity threats (such as M193), and instead of capturing the projectile will spall it into you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I got a pair of these after seeing the ballistic tests. I think it took something like 30 round at close range, including 5.56 green tip and .308 before they finally had some penetration. They are crazy light and well priced. The company is run by a LEO / former SWAT / Tactical Instructor. http://www.gladiatorprotective.com/ Edited February 23, 2015 by D.R.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I wouldn't get one without a good anti-spal coating. place some fruit around a AR500 target and pump a few rounds into it. see if you want your chin and arms looking like that.armor has only one purpose. only one reason to buy it. because you accept the possibility that some poop might go down, and you might take fire. if you are planning for that contingency, than it only makes sense to save up a few more bucks for a coated plate.good score on the rig btw. Eagle stuff is pretty nice.I guess part of my idea was to do a home done anti spall/fragmentation coating. seems like there are a number of ways to approach a DIY coating. Still working out the details, not like I have the $160 right now even. At least with the back plate likely going into the backpack in a SHTF situation, I don't have to worry about it as much there. Maybe I buy that set for the sides + back, sell the front and buy another front that is predone?life was simpler before I won a free carrier :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I got this in today , sold by MechArmor Defense systems , same co. that sells the Tac -1 Charging handles . Call & talk to Van & tell him your from here & he will hook you up ,if you want to go the extra $$. This , at least to me was not cheap . Threat level IV. I think a layered approach to a coating would work , like they layer for bullet resistant glass . Interesting , let us know what you come up with. Edited February 24, 2015 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Another thing about hard body armor:A higher level rating doesn't mean it must protect against threats rated at lower levels. The level IV spec means that it must stop one round of M2-AP "black tip" .30-06. The level III spec is that it must stop six rounds of M80 ball. Thus, you can have level III and IV plates that don't stop .223 threats. It's important to see what each plate has been tested to. UHMPE plates tend to stop M193, and not M855 for instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonfalcon07 Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 AR500 Armor is only 65 bucks a plate if you don't mind flat. 85 for curved. More for the level 4 stuff, and more if you want some of their soft armor, which stops pistol threats at around a pound per plate. The level 3 stops .223 of all varieties, and has lots of YouTube videos. If you're military, they offer further discounts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) EasyE, I'll send you a link in a PM. <thumbsup> I run a combination of hard and soft in the same plate carrier. Hard inside, close to the body, with the soft insert over the top of them, towards the outside. EDIT - PM sent, brother. Edited February 24, 2015 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 EasyE, I'll send you a link in a PM. <thumbsup> I run a combination of hard and soft in the same plate carrier. Hard inside, close to the body, with the soft insert over the top of them, towards the outside. EDIT - PM sent, brother.You put plate backers in front of your hard armor? If so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 I got this in today , sold by MechArmor Defense systems , same co. that sells the Tac -1 Charging handles . Call & talk to Van & tell him your from here & he will hook you up ,if you want to go the extra $$. This , at least to me was not cheap . Threat level IV.IMG_0491.jpgIMG_0492.jpg I think a layered approach to a coating would work , like they layer for bullet resistant glass . Interesting , let us know what you come up with.that is some sweet looking stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 AR500 Armor is only 65 bucks a plate if you don't mind flat. 85 for curved. More for the level 4 stuff, and more if you want some of their soft armor, which stops pistol threats at around a pound per plate. The level 3 stops .223 of all varieties, and has lots of YouTube videos. If you're military, they offer further discounts as well.do they just need a DD214? I'm not ex-mil, but my wife is :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 After reading some of the advertised stuff out there , there is some real BS going on as far as what ones product stops & competitors . I've watched enough videos of testing on different Plate types & real time videos don't BS you . I know from my own testing through the years , that as far as small arms ammo ,the 30'06 AP round is a beast . Its a wonder you can wear something that can stop it , even once . This Carrier is really well made , I'm impressed with this set up .The edges of the Plates (Ceramic ) have padding, in case of them being dropped . Adding soft armor in front of an AR 500 plate might help with fragmentation , but I would like to see something bonded to the plate myself , too easy for some frag's to escape between the two ,it only takes one to ruin your day . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 You put plate backers in front of your hard armor? If so, why? Not plate backers at all - Level IIIA soft armor. It'll stop pistol rounds by itself. If a rifle round gets through it, the hard plate stops the rifle round, and the soft armor eats the fragmentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Not plate backers at all - Level IIIA soft armor. It'll stop pistol rounds by itself. If a rifle round gets through it, the hard plate stops the rifle round, and the soft armor eats the fragmentation.Most plate backers are level IIIA, I know mine are. So you're using a large cut IIIA soft armor over the plate?Do your plates not have a spall liner? AR500 plates are the only ones I've seen that don't come with them. Composite plates usually have a thin spall liner, but then again they're designed to trap the spall inside the plate itself.Soft armor over hard armor still doesn't make sense to me since the hard plate will stop the soft armor threat and the soft armor behind it will lessen the blow to your body from back face deformation and is also used to catch slowed down fragments that may make it through the plate (hence ICW plates). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 24, 2015 Report Share Posted February 24, 2015 Most plate backers are level IIIA, I know mine are. So you're using a large cut IIIA soft armor over the plate? Do your plates not have a spall liner? AR500 plates are the only ones I've seen that don't come with them. Composite plates usually have a thin spall liner, but then again they're designed to trap the spall inside the plate itself. Soft armor over hard armor still doesn't make sense to me since the hard plate will stop the soft armor threat and the soft armor behind it will lessen the blow to your body from back face deformation and is also used to catch slowed down fragments that may make it through the plate (hence ICW plates). Yep, soft armor over the plate. Plates are International Armor Level III Stand Alones, coated. Soft armor is Armor Express Level IIIA, on top. Used to work for the military - soft shell vest (not NIJ tested), and you'd put your SAPI or ESAPI plates inside - that's soft armor over plates - and underneath the plates in that case. Why should my rifle plate need to be subjected to a pistol impact, when a soft shell will pretty much stop it from making that impact? On the hard paltes, coated or not, why should I have to worry about a projectile coming into contact with the hard plate first, and fragmenting all over the place? - again, coated or not, but fragmenting anyway. I don't intend to be shot alot - not now, anyway. If I am, I need this schit to work. Front side and back side shots: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Yep, soft armor over the plate. Plates are International Armor Level III Stand Alones, coated. Soft armor is Armor Express Level IIIA, on top. Used to work for the military - soft shell vest (not NIJ tested), and you'd put your SAPI or ESAPI plates inside - that's soft armor over plates - and underneath the plates in that case. Why should my rifle plate need to be subjected to a pistol impact, when a soft shell will pretty much stop it from making that impact? On the hard paltes, coated or not, why should I have to worry about a projectile coming into contact with the hard plate first, and fragmenting all over the place? - again, coated or not, but fragmenting anyway. I don't intend to be shot alot - not now, anyway. If I am, I need this schit to work. Front side and back side shots:Since the IBA OTV the military runs plates on top of soft armor. SAPI/ESAPI/XSAPI plates are ICW and require soft armor to be behind them in order to deliver their rated performance.The soft armor is used to catch any debris/spall that the plate didn't fully stop, as well as secondary fragments (plate material). Additionally it ever so slightly pads the user from the impact and plate BFD.I don't really see how your plate doesn't take the impact from a pistol round with the soft armor on top of it. Because the soft armor is on a rigid surface (plate) it can't give more than it's compression (not much) so the plate ends up taking the point impact of the round anyways even if there isn't penetration. I'm sure you'd still get cracks in a composite plate from that. When a round hits soft armor on a person both the armor and supporting material behind the armor (person/skin bag of water) compress and have some give, which spreads the energy out over a wider area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I really don't know much about Body Armor , just what I read or watch on video's & my own testing on what a particular cartridge will & will not do , but watching the Video's on the AR 500 plates , I can see & hear the projectile or pieces of it , going some where & that coating on the plate is not stopping it . Those deadly pieces of bullets are going some where & I for one would not like to be next to someone that is wearing that system when they take hits . Also in their own Video showing a 15 ' drop test , OK they win that one , a hardened metal plate being dropped & not hurting it , that's a no brainer , to me , what was expected , it shattering into pieces ? I know what they are comparing it to , but if I drop my plate from fifteen feet , I sure hope I'm not with it & if I am , I most likely not be worried about the plate at that time , I would be looking for medical attention . My body would break the fall & save the Armor plates any way . I think that as described by 98 ,is in the right direction & if the soft Armor wraps around the curved AR500 plate , it would subdue the fragmentation . I watched hours of video's & read volumes of data from many sources ( including testimony of actual survivors ) before I made a choice on personal Body Armor . My life & maybe those next to me may depend on it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Soft and Hard armor is labeled as IC (in conjunction armor) . https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247281.pdf This is a great open source resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Here's another good resource on that the different level ratings are, and what each level is tested (tested to stop, at that level): http://internationalbodyarmor.com/ballistic-charts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 AR500 doesn't perform well against high velocity threats (such as M193), and instead of capturing the projectile will spall it into you. I've got AR500 steel targets that I'm going to test this against. I've got SCADS is M193 to use on it. SCHIT TONS of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Thus, you can have level III and IV plates that don't stop .223 threats. Level III stops, up to this: Level IV stops, up to this: Farkle, what .223 round can make it through those plates that THOSE rounds can't make it through? What ammo do you have access to - in .223 - that can defeat those armor level ratings, when those stated rounds can't make it through them? Your schit made of Kryptonite or something? Unobtanium? Unicorn Schit? What? Calling bullschit on your comment. Edited February 26, 2015 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 destruction lab on youtube has some fun AR500 tests. took him between 60 and 90 rounds of green tip to penetrate a standard plate. if I get hit 60+ times...than I have a feeling its going to take more than a 10" square of armor to save me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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