Long range ar???

[Ryannewar]

Money is here ready to build ! Where is the best place to buy quality complete upper ? Am I able to buy a complete upper that will be accurate enough or do I need to buy barrel and and build upper ? 

[survivalshop]

  DPMS type Upper  ?  DPMS Has some good shooting barrels , but I would go with a custom built barrel for long range & I wouldn't skimp on it , You get what you pay for , lot of Barrel makers who are on they sight , Criterion ( my flavor ) Faxon firearms  ,Ballistic Advantage , just to name a few .
  I see a guy with a review on Fulton Armory's web sight that had a 3" group @ 1K yards with one of their Titian rifles with a 24"Barrel  http://www.fulton-armory.com

[Hoff]

I will give you my best advice. Do not focus on yards. Just build a great rifle you are comfortable with. 1000 yards is great and all, but if you are on a budget you should know that there are probably very few people out there that can actually shoot 1000 yards without shooting all the time. It takes a lot of hard work, practice, and money. Money in ammo. You will be going through a ton of expensive ammo. That is my best guess, although there are probably people that go all rain man and just shoot 1000 yards because they rock and dont put a guns price worth of ammo down range every month. The only other thing to consider is finding someplace you can put that much range time in, and measure out and shoot those graduated distances up to the 1000.

That being said, I am trying to help not discourage. There are lots of 1,000 yard shooters and guns out there, and it is an awesome passion. You can absolutely do it if you put the time and $ in. I would highly reccomend the .308/7.62. 1,000 + yards army and marine snipers use that cartridge, as well as competitive shooters. and it is a cheap military ammo for when you just want to dump 100 rounds of FMJ at the range. (trust me you will want to regularly hahaha good luck with our new addiction!) The 308/7.62 is cheap enough and versatile, with a ton of various ammunitions available, as well as great factory rounds which is important to me as i do not yet handload/reload.

Here is my personal choice, just for thought. I bought a very high quality RRA .308. Initially i had 1000 yards in mind as well, but when i bought it i changed my mind temporarily. I have a neat optic that is fast handling (combat and deer hunting), accurate, illuminated, and just plain neat. It will take me out to 600. As I shoot, progress, and become more comfortable with the rifle I will eventually buy a lighter Elite Operator upper, transfer my current optic to that, and buy a mega glass monster for my current upper so I can go farther. Then i will essentially have swappable uppers and "2 individually suited rifles in one" Maybe an option for you if you are on a budget? Hope this helps!

[Hoff]

This 26 inch, cryogenically treated, air guaged, stainless steel bull barrel will take you as far as you want to go, 1,000 real easy if you can shoot it. With FGMM factory ammo you can expect .5 of an inch or less at 100 yards. Handloads, even more accuracy. I will put my word on it that RRA makes a tack driving machine!!

[Ryannewar]

On March 15, 2016 at 0:59 PM, Hoff said:

This 26 inch, cryogenically treated, air guaged, stainless steel bull barrel will take you as far as you want to go, 1,000 real easy if you can shoot it. With FGMM factory ammo you can expect .5 of an inch or less at 100 yards. Handloads, even more accuracy. I will put my word on it that RRA makes a tack driving machine!!

Thanks for the info I really appreciate it . I live in the country where there is actually a range out to 1200 yards where my good friend shoots and teaches long range shooting. My uncle is recently retired as a counter sniper for the president so the learning curve should be much shorter I have shot bolt guns a ton and never really had a ton of interest in ar style rifles until Obama said they were bad ;). My budget isn't huge but I think I can still build a great gun. Not that I'm rich but the wife gave me the blessing to build a really good gun . I will check into the rra never heard of them 

[Hoff]

Cool cool it sounds like you have some people with the know how to help you reach that long range potential. I am a bit suprised you have not heard of Rock River Arms, but check it out. If you want to build some guys really enjoy that. If you want an out of the box rifle, RRA has very good rifles and the varmint A4 would be great for long range. Watch the daily specials, and you may find it for cheap. I got my predator HP for $1,300.00 and it is very accurate. Normal price was $1,755.00 I think. It can out shoot my ability, and would not be far from a 1,000 yard gun itself. I patterned 3/4" benchrest first time out and with factory ammo, Probably could have shot better, and the varmint has a better LR barrel than mine. Unlike a build, you also get that warranty and the reliability which is not always for sure when doing a build. RRA makes really great weapons. If you build or buy, please post pics of that baddy and have fun!

Edited March 17, 2016 by Hoff

[Hoff]

haha dont know why its upside down

[washguy]

1 hour ago, Hoff said:

haha dont know why its upside down

Cause you be shootin gangsta style

Wash

[Hoff]

Bwahahaha I'm so G yo. lol

[washguy]

18 minutes ago, Hoff said:

Bwahahaha I'm so G yo. lol

Haha Yo Gdawg...whattsuupp wit dat?

[Hoff]

Now i'm curious if i could even lift it one armed and tilt is sideways. It weighs a ton!

[washguy]

3 minutes ago, Hoff said:

Now i'm curious if i could even lift it one armed and tilt is sideways. It weighs a ton!

G what have you done?  My latest 2 builds weigh 8 lbs with scope and mag. You be da fattie weak son lol  Da Wash

[Hoff]

HA! my RRA .308 weighed prob 9-10 before optic, so then add the optic and a full mag might as well carry a howitzer!

[washguy]

8 hours ago, Hoff said:

HA! my RRA .308 weighed prob 9-10 before optic, so then add the optic and a full mag might as well carry a howitzer!

G... Yo....gonna let an ol Dawg punk ya?308 pimped out....LoL.     Wash

 

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by washguy

[unforgiven]

My Standard Operator with scope and full metal mag #14.5.Love my RRA,but I have a M5 Aero with 14.5 barrel that is a close second and a bit lighter..308/7.62 yea,yea,yea.

[Hoff]

I will lug the weight around, its worth it when you see that deer. I cant wait to post a drive up on the ridge overlooking the riverbed and have a few run out. "switch you selector lever from safe to semi, and scan you lane" hahahaha

[mrmackc]

The topic is Long Range AR, well the site is named 308AR so I reckon this is as good as any place to talk some Long Range 308AR shooting.

How many of you have a history of shooting 400, 500 or 1000 or more yards, or interested in learning?

It has been 30 years since I was actually involved in long range shooting but it is kinda like flying an airplane or riding a bike, it tends to stay with you.

Okay question #1: How many of you ever learned to read mirage to estimate wind? I never did much in the USMC because we used strictly iron sights and very few spotting scopes were used on the rifle range, always scoring and marking targets in the Butts.  It was only when I started shooting around the US Palma team shooter George Tubb (David's Dad) did I learn to read mirage using a spotting scope.  He taught me to set the scope focus about mid range to the target, that makes the mirage at that point easier to read.  To me it still isn't an easy skill to be good at.

[sketch]

11 minutes ago, mrmackc said:

The topic is Long Range AR, well the site is named 308AR so I reckon this is as good as any place to talk some Long Range 308AR shooting.

How many of you have a history of shooting 400, 500 or 1000 or more yards, or interested in learning?

It has been 30 years since I was actually involved in long range shooting but it is kinda like flying an airplane or riding a bike, it tends to stay with you.

Okay question #1: How many of you ever learned to read mirage to estimate wind? I never did much in the USMC because we used strictly iron sights and very few spotting scopes were used on the rifle range, always scoring and marking targets in the Butts.  It was only when I started shooting around the US Palma team shooter George Tubb (David's Dad) did I learn to read mirage using a spotting scope.  He taught me to set the scope focus about mid range to the target, that makes the mirage at that point easier to read.  To me it still isn't an easy skill to be good at.

But can you one hand gangsterr!?

when is wash gonna sell his rights to that rifle to me?

Shucks brother mac i had to lern in the woods and range tops out at 200 yds but that wont stop me from learning something new! 

Thank you!

[mrmackc]

This is a good video.

 

 

[sketch]

Nice ! Hope my scope comes in soon .....

[HotRod308]

I just shot in a NRA 1,000 yd match using 6.5 creedmoor and have been shooting NRA matches XC and Long Range for a long time. My high score was a 195-5X using iron sights.  A 24 inch barrel is the shortest I would go, a 20 inch barrel would still work but but the longer barrel is better. Other cartridges to consider are 308, 260, 6X and 6 XC, 7-08. With today's choices in bullets in VLD are very high BC and each one will get there just fine.

My long range load for the 6.5 Creedmoor is 40.5g of H4350, WW mag primmer, Hornady case, 142g MK seated .015 off the lands.

Chambers and bullet jump: If you want all your ammo to fit the mag, be sure to find a gunsmith that will cut the chamber so mag length ammo/bullet will have the shortest bullet jump to the rifling as possible. Example the new sierra bullet 175TMK don't shoot well with a long bullet jump and need to be close to the rifling as possible. Otherwise if you don't mind single loading, then seating bullets out much longer isn't an issue for VLD's and the TMK bullets.

BCG, must be very clean and well lubricated. More you shoot the carbon builds up on the gas rings and becomes more sticker/binding to unlock causing higher vertical displacement. So using CLP or bore solvent and reclean the gas rings or put some in the vent holes of the carrier to keep the carbon build up from affecting accuracy.

Although I have posted this before, but I found that getting rid of the gas rings completely made for a super smooth action that un-locks more consistently the same each time resulting reduced vertical displacement over another rifle with gas rings. I just had this bolt done for a friends AR in 260 cal done. The gunsmith sent a photo of the finished bolt after the welding and machine work was done.

  .

 

[planeflyer21]

Great advice HotRod!

What rifle did you use for the NRA match?

[HotRod308]

DPMS LR in 6.5 Creedmoor, factory 24inch barrel. The first match of the day was any rifle and any sight, winner of this match was shooting a 6.5X284 with a scope. I used my AR with iron sights, he had a 198 and I fired a 195.  But the in the last match everyone had to use Iron sights, I won with a 188 while the same person had a 187 while still shooting the 6.5X284.

Sometimes more horse power wins and sometimes it don't help.  Wind changes were hard to catch, went from 1 min right up to 7 mins right in two shots then back down to 3 mins right.

It was fun, but not the for the wind.

[HotRod308]

It was interesting to watch the video on doping the wind. What I do for example at 600 yds is taking a known condition of wind speed. A 20 mph wind for a 308, 168 at full value requires about 5 min of wind ( trees moving back and forth) to be in the 10 ring. I use my spotting scope and turn it down wind until I see a boil in the mirage. Thats the angle of the wind to the target. Then I just do basic math, 45 degrees is now 2 1/2 mins of wind, 22 degree divide again 1 1/4 mins of wind, and so forth. If the wind is 10 mph full value the windage would be 2 1/2 min and then find the angle and do the math.

If the wind is 15 mph, same thing just do the math.

The biggest thing to know is hard hard the wind is blowing and windage needed.  Shooting long range only on a calm day does not prepare you shooting when its windy and you have to shoot. You have practice when the wind is blowing as well.

[mrmackc]

I started doping wind back in 1960 when I enlisted in the Marine Corp.   It was hard to conceptualize mirage without any video. gives a good view of mirage at the midpoint range.

Did you remove the gas rings from your DPMS rifle?I

have found that using a handheld wind meter is good for the firing point and watching the area near the target is good for that area, and defocusing the spotting scope to half way down range is a good way to view mirage at mid range.

Like Hot Rod I have only used iron sights and either a M1 or M14, M1A for shooting 500 to 1500 yards. Now that I have a DPMS LR 308 with no iron sights it will be a new experience.

I checked out the Tac Pro shooting center West of Ft. Worth last week and intend to become a member.  They allow public to use their 100 and 200 yard ranges, but members only canshootonthe1000 yd range, after attending a long range qualifying session. It is a 50 mile drive but it seems to be a good facility, Check out their web page and also their FB page.. The owner is a former UK Special Forces instructor.

Edited September 16, 2016 by mrmackc