NEW BUILD

[ARTrooper]

criterion barrels are a great option also, seems to be a favorite around here, but I don't have experience with them.

I am a fan of black hole barrels though.

[JJ109]

22 minutes ago, ARTrooper said:

criterion barrels are a great option also, seems to be a favorite around here, but I don't have experience with them.

I am a fan of black hole barrels though.

Yea i have a BHW barrel in my LR308 build. I really like the rifling in BHW barrels. I have seen reviews were they out shot Noveske and Krieger barrels. 

[shepp]

29 minutes ago, ARTrooper said:

criterion barrels are a great option also, seems to be a favorite around here, but I don't have experience with them.

I am a fan of black hole barrels though.

Wisconsin based company ????

[ARTrooper]

BHW used to make barrels for Rainier arms, not sure if they still do though. but yeah for the price, BHW is definitely worth the buy.

I do like how you can purchase a bolt with the criterion barrels, and seems to have great customer service on the forum. :P Plus yeah, being from Wisconsin automatically puts it up with the best, right shepp?

[JJ109]

7 hours ago, ARTrooper said:

BHW used to make barrels for Rainier arms, not sure if they still do though. but yeah for the price, BHW is definitely worth the buy.

I do like how you can purchase a bolt with the criterion barrels, and seems to have great customer service on the forum. :P Plus yeah, being from Wisconsin automatically puts it up with the best, right shepp?

Yea they make the Rainier Select Barrels for them. But i havent bought a Barrel yet. I definitely going to take my time to select everything on this build to be just right. Want to make sure im getting the most out of my ?. 

[Robocop1051]

In regards to barrels and heat;

heat travels at the same speed. It doesn't stop. A barrel that gets hot fast gets cool fast too. Big heavy barrels take a long time to heat up due to their mass, but then you're stuck waiting several minutes till it's even safe to touch. 

Picture it like foil in the oven. The foil is ok to touch only seconds after you remove your dish, while the thicker dish is hot for several minutes. 

A fluted barrel will not cool faster than a pencil barrel. The thicker areas will take longer to heat and the flutes will heat up fast... Then reverse to cool. The thick areas will take longer to cool and the flutes will cool off. 

Fluting doesn't make metal more rigid. It doesn't make the metal stronger. It doesn't cool the fastest. Flutes are for cutting weight... and only minimally at that. 

Flutes are for creating a "medium" between two barrel weights. Pencil barrels are great for 5-10 shot strings. Then they open up due to heat. Heavy barrels can mag dump with little effect. 

Get that lightweight barrel, with a 1:7 twist, and shoot heavies. A 1:8 or 1:9 shooting <55gr will heat a pencil barrel like a furnace. 

[98Z5V]

16 hours ago, planeflyer21 said:

I have a BCM pencil barrel upper 98 recommended and it does get rather hot with prolonged firing.  A great handguard makes a LOT of difference!  I believe I have the YHM handguard on that one.  Or a MWI.

Schit, I forgot about that one - I used that upper to build a pinned 14.5" M4 clone for my kid.  What a great shooting rifle. 

I can say this - my Faxon 16" pencil heat UP when you get on it.  It gets hot.  But it cools fast.  That BCM pencil has been used many, many times on an Appleseed qualification, and it heats up, but doesn't lose it's accuracy.  That's a pretty good, realistic pace of fire, too.  It's not stupid-in-the-sandpit mag dumps, just realistic firing pace at multiple targets.  The lightweight hasn't been used in an Appleseed yet, but it will go through a few.

OP, you wanna build a light rifle.  That's what I'm taking from this thread.  You will only make a heavy (or, heavier) rifle if you use a fluted barrel. 

[JJ109]

5 hours ago, Robocop1051 said:

In regards to barrels and heat;

heat travels at the same speed. It doesn't stop. A barrel that gets hot fast gets cool fast too. Big heavy barrels take a long time to heat up due to their mass, but then you're stuck waiting several minutes till it's even safe to touch. 

Picture it like foil in the oven. The foil is ok to touch only seconds after you remove your dish, while the thicker dish is hot for several minutes. 

A fluted barrel will not cool faster than a pencil barrel. The thicker areas will take longer to heat and the flutes will heat up fast... Then reverse to cool. The thick areas will take longer to cool and the flutes will cool off. 

Fluting doesn't make metal more rigid. It doesn't make the metal stronger. It doesn't cool the fastest. Flutes are for cutting weight... and only minimally at that. 

Flutes are for creating a "medium" between two barrel weights. Pencil barrels are great for 5-10 shot strings. Then they open up due to heat. Heavy barrels can mag dump with little effect. 

Get that lightweight barrel, with a 1:7 twist, and shoot heavies. A 1:8 or 1:9 shooting <55gr will heat a pencil barrel like a furnace. 

Great analogy. I see your point. I will definitely get a pencil barrel to save weight. I dont plan on extended firing from this rifle. I really would like the option to shoot some lighter grain ammo. 

[JJ109]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCGN3LW&name=Light+Weight+AIM+AR+.223%2f5.56+Nitride+9310+MPI+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=723

Was really liking this bolt with its reviews. I dont want to go to exotic cause of potential reliable issues 

[JJ109]

5 hours ago, Robocop1051 said:

In regards to barrels and heat;

heat travels at the same speed. It doesn't stop. A barrel that gets hot fast gets cool fast too. Big heavy barrels take a long time to heat up due to their mass, but then you're stuck waiting several minutes till it's even safe to touch. 

Picture it like foil in the oven. The foil is ok to touch only seconds after you remove your dish, while the thicker dish is hot for several minutes. 

A fluted barrel will not cool faster than a pencil barrel. The thicker areas will take longer to heat and the flutes will heat up fast... Then reverse to cool. The thick areas will take longer to cool and the flutes will cool off. 

Fluting doesn't make metal more rigid. It doesn't make the metal stronger. It doesn't cool the fastest. Flutes are for cutting weight... and only minimally at that. 

Flutes are for creating a "medium" between two barrel weights. Pencil barrels are great for 5-10 shot strings. Then they open up due to heat. Heavy barrels can mag dump with little effect. 

Get that lightweight barrel, with a 1:7 twist, and shoot heavies. A 1:8 or 1:9 shooting <55gr will heat a pencil barrel like a furnace. 

I can buy a pencil barrel with fluting. It is available. The price doesn't add that much to cost of the barrel. 

[98Z5V]

If you get a true pencil barrel, with all the excess weight already taken out of it by the nature of the profile - then there's really nothing left to put flutes in...  I'm just sayin'...

[JJ109]

27 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

If you get a true pencil barrel, with all the excess weight already taken out of it by the nature of the profile - then there's really nothing left to put flutes in...  I'm just sayin'...

Yea not sure where the material is being removed but there is availability for it

[98Z5V]

48 minutes ago, JJ109 said:

Yea not sure where the material is being removed but there is availability for it

In that case, if there's room (enough diameter) for flutes, then the barrel profile could have been a smaller diameter.  Thus, one with flutes for "lightening" could have been even lighter by making that profile diameter smaller.  Make sense? 

Don't waste the money on a "pencil barrel" that has flutes.  Get a lighter, true pencil barrel...

[JJ109]

Yea it would be interesting to find out what the pencil barrel weighs before fluting to compare. 

[JJ109]

On 10/7/2016 at 11:34 AM, 98Z5V said:

If you want to get into lightweight trinkets, check out VSeven Weapon Systems - overall, you can take a chunk of weight out by using that stuff.  Eventually, I'll start adding their stuff, but for right now, it's all just standard parts.

http://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/

98 check this out. Give you build sheet. A lot of Vseven parts on this rifle. 

http://www.gunsandtactics.com/building-the-lightest-ar-possible

[98Z5V]

Yep, lots of V7 parts on there.

Here, for you - 3.8 pounds.  OIP.

You can read up on it here:

https://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/oip-rifle

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=2930

[JJ109]

4 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Yep, lots of V7 parts on there.

Here, for you - 3.8 pounds.  OIP.

You can read up on it here:

https://www.battlearmsdevelopment.com/oip-rifle

http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=2930

Wow!  

[98Z5V]

Here it is with a temporary buttstock system, whilst I was waiting on the Battle Arms light(est) weight buttstock setup.  I couldn't wait, and tossed this backend on just to go blast the thing.

Detailed current pics of it will be in here tomorrow, with a full parts list.

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by 98Z5V

[98Z5V]

This is the basis for the upper - standard forged upper receiver (with a regular forward assist and regular ejection port door), Faxon 16" midlength pencil barrel, Faxon lightweight gasblock, standard midlength gas tube, and the guts (barrelnut) of the ALG Defense (Geissele) EMR V1 M-LOK 10" rail.  That complete 10" rail system weighs 6.19oz, including hardware and barrelnut. Spike's Shorty DynaComp on the end...

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by 98Z5V

[ARTrooper]

18 hours ago, Robocop1051 said:

heat travels at the same speed. It doesn't stop. A barrel that gets hot fast gets cool fast too. Big heavy barrels take a long time to heat up due to their mass, but then you're stuck waiting several minutes till it's even safe to touch. 

Picture it like foil in the oven. The foil is ok to touch only seconds after you remove your dish, while the thicker dish is hot for several minutes. 

A fluted barrel will not cool faster than a pencil barrel. The thicker areas will take longer to heat and the flutes will heat up fast... Then reverse to cool. The thick areas will take longer to cool and the flutes will cool off. 

Fluting doesn't make metal more rigid. It doesn't make the metal stronger. It doesn't cool the fastest. Flutes are for cutting weight... and only minimally at that. 

Flutes are for creating a "medium" between two barrel weights. Pencil barrels are great for 5-10 shot strings. Then they open up due to heat. Heavy barrels can mag dump with little effect. 

yup, 100% correct on the greater the mass the longer it takes to heat up, but the less the mass the quicker the barrel cools off. so just have to decide what type of shooter you are and how many rounds you will be putting down range in what type of time period.

as for fluting: fluting doesn't make a barrel more rigid, but because fluting cuts weight, you can have a barrel that is more rigid with fluting than a thinner barrel that doesn't have fluting. also, fluting creates more surface area that is exposed to the air so it does increase cooling, but not by much as again mass is the big factor in cooling. so basically fluting is for a person that wants a more rigid barrel but at the same weight as a slightly thinner barrel... or someone that just thinks it looks cool. haha.

[JJ109]

ARTrooper i was just looking at fluting cause of reducing more weight. The cost isnt that much more. I know on a pencil barrel its not going to reduce that much but every little bit helps. 

Also im trying to do it within a budget. I know there is going to be some big $$$ ticket items but if I can do this build for under $1500 and have a gun that weighs 5.5lbs or less without mag in I think i did good. 

[JJ109]

Does anyone know what an average receiver set weighs? Just around about cause i know there is so many different brands out there. 

[JJ109]

Ok so here is where im at with this build. Just trying to put some of it together on paper first. 

Gun tec 12 " ultra light M-lok handguard is 9.1 oz with barrel nut  & $119.00 could go even lighter. But like this set up

Barrel is up in air still 16" pencil depending on who i use it will be between 1.4lbs to 1.19lbs and cost between $350 to $175

BCG I really like the AIM surplus black nitride light BCG 8.5 oz complete and average cost of $120

MFT minimal mil spec buttstock with braided rope 8.5 oz around $90

Giessele FCG ssa-e $240 or so weight???

Now the receivers i could go really cheap or really expensive here i seen daytonatactical set is $170 cerakoted. Weight??? I guessing 1.8 to 2lbs. Can go very expensive here and get both under a pound but cost would be over $500 most likely

Vseven furion muzzle brake black $133 and is 1.6oz. Very light 

SLR Rifleworks clamp on adjustable gas block 1.3 oz is about $120 

Holosun HS515c already own this red dot on my 15/22 rifle. It is awesome. Cost is around $260 weighs 5.6 oz with high mount. Definitely buying another one just to have. 

Misc parts lower and other probably $200 and weight???

Ok what are your thoughts guys? This is where im at 

 

 

[JJ109]

Left out buffer, spring and tube cause i would like professional opinion on this cause im not sure if running a light weight BCG and adjustable gas block with a mid length gas system may need something special to work reliable????Definitely want a mil spec carbine collapsible stock. 

[jtallen83]

I used a d. wilson lightweight BCG and a weightless buffer on a build. Once done tuning it it has run great, the wife is starting to spend more time shooting a rifle since she got it. It has near 400 rounds through it from cheap Perfecta 55 gr to MK 262 77 grain just a few clicks on the gas block and it functions reliably. Here is the thread with all the particulars, parts list, final weigh in, and pictures at the end of the first page;

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by jtallen83