survivalshop Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) Interesting or is this just another 6.5 . Six part series on the Cartridge , AR15 by Sharps to shoot it & reloading it . I may have to look into this one a little more , I still have not picked a Barrel or Maker for my BRO build . (Click on the headers of the individual topics ) http://ultimatereloader.com/category/25-45-sharps/ Here is an article from the American Riflemen https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/4/17/the-25-45-sharps-a-new-old-cartridge/ Edited March 18, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 18, 2017 Report Share Posted March 18, 2017 Been looking at this cartridge - and looking for barrels. With Lee already making a die set, this is something that's been on my mind since I did the .338 Fed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) Did you watch the one video in there , that he had a RCBS three Die system for forming the Brass with an Expander first, then Sizing for forming the Case idea . Also he was using new , Annealed 5.56 Brass , easier on the Brass . Edited March 19, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 Sharps Rifle Company will be providing match barrels for this soon. They are getting the same DLC frictionless coating that goes on their new generation BCG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 They show Barrels for sale on their sight , are the ones you talking about different ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 10 hours ago, survivalshop said: Did you watch the one video in there , that he had a RCBS three Die system for forming the Brass with an Expander first, then Sizing for forming the Case idea . Also he was using new , Annealed 5.56 Brass , easier on the Brass . Not showing up on the RCBS web sight . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 3 hours ago, survivalshop said: They show Barrels for sale on their sight , are the ones you talking about different ? Yes. Those are their barrels, but they were made on their small machines. SRC just acquired a failing barrel company and will be machining their own barrels in house. This will allow them to be a much larger barrel manufacturer... just like the "old days". I'm in talks with them to use their barrels when they get set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted March 19, 2017 Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 This caliber has interested me lately. I have heard great things about it... then when researching it I found a lot of bad reviews. I have to say, I rarely see a split in the discussions like what the 25-45 sharps. So the question becomes, what is bullpoopy and what isn't. If we are looking for a decent AR-15 cartridge for taking deer size game (using readily available .223 brass) how does the 25-45 compare to the 300 blackout or maybe other calibers such as 6x45mm? then there are other calibers that use the less readily available, but still rather common, 6.8 SPC brass such as 6PDK. I have to say using .223 brass at least for me would be the goal in an AR-16 deer gun, but I really haven't seen much that compares to calibers such as 6mm AR and 6.5 Grendel because of their case design. I may have gone off on a bit of a tangent... so I'll just restate the actual question. lol. "If we are looking for a decent AR-15 cartridge for taking deer size game (using readily available .223 brass) how does the 25-45 compare to the 300 blackout or maybe other calibers such as 6x45mm?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2017 The way I look at it is commonality of components with the AR 15 , mags, Bolt ,Brass . The Barrels all have to be changed to the new Caliber , some of cartages need special Mag's to work properly, limiting mag. capacity , not something you would worry about in a Hunting rifle , but commonality of Mags , is a good thing . , Larger faced Bolts different then the 5.56 cartridge , so I would be looking for something with the most commonality , much like the 300BLK . The issue I see with the 300BLK is Hunting range , as far as longer range , I love the 300BLK , but because of its .30 Diameter Bullet , it slows down pretty fast , sure you can hit with it out to some good range , but that doesn't mean its got good knock down power at that range . Your 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel & many others need a larger Bolt face & changed mag or altered or reduced capacity , as with others . I suppose , ammunition availability would also be an important feature . The 25-45 Sharps is an interesting hunting caliber & I or we need to see how it stacks up to the others . I my self have some parameters , only thing I want not compatible with AR 15 components is the Barrel , like the 300BLK . I also have to look at Bullet configuration , ever with the 110gr. Bullet , the 300BLK is no speedster , not that its really needed , but the 300BLK was designed for a special purpose , big bullets , & very quit , all good & we know the 300BLK will hunt well , thats been proven , but its Ballistics do have limitations . I for one want to see what this 25-45 Sharps has going for it also .I like its speed & BC . http://www.gunsandammo.com/tactical/best-ar-15-cartridges-right-now/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Sharps has the RCBS Die set. http://store.srcarms.com/product-p/rcbs-dies.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I just looked at Bullet availability & BC , big range of bullets & Manufacturers , 75,90,& 100 gr. are available , as is the 87 gr. soft tip , even a Swift Bullet co. with a Scirocco of the 100 gr. verity , with the highest I have seen in BC , .429 . I can see a lot of load development . Some of the Bullets we showing lower BC's then some lighter ones , but was not across the board for all manufacturers . I liked Nosler also , Game King 's looked good . I was mostly looking at Polymer Tips , because I don't like exposed lead on Bullets for auto feeing rifles . Have not even looked at Powers yet . Might wait for their new heat treated barrels , Robocop is speaking of . I would be willing to invest in one of Sharps new Barrels , if they need a Evaluator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Interesting read from Black Hole weaponry & the Sharps Barrels , like who makes them . http://blackholeweaponry.proboards.com/thread/1648/25x45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 Survival, I think we agree. using the same mags, bolt, brass, etc. is a huge plus for changing a caliber in an AR-15. I'm all for only changing the barrel. which for me leaves the choice down to 25-45 sharp, 300BLK, and 6x45mm. These 3 calibers all use .223 brass and only need a barrel swap, any I am missing please let me know. Ok, by looking at things a bit, correct me if I am wrong, at 200 meters the 25-45 has more velocity, shoots flatter, and has more energy. So unless planning on shooting subsonic rounds with a suppressor, 25x45 should be better than 300BLK for just about anything and everything. I did a little comparing of 25-45 to 6x45, very similar, not surprisingly considering how close in diameter the bullets are, however couldn't quite find charts that matched up good enough to do a real worth while comparison in math. I would like to note though, that when comparing bullets that can go in these two loads 6mm bullets had better ballistic coefficient than 25 caliber bullets. Both these calibers have the energy to take deer size game to 200 yards (with good shot placement) but 300BLK has about the same energy at only 100 yards. 6x45mm seems to have less wind drift, bullet drop, and more energy retention in extended range than 25-45. 25-45 does seem to beat the 6x45 at closer range for taking game, but that is to be expected. Sharps may be making the 25-45 a bit more easy to come by, but don't overlook the 6x45 (6mm-223 Remington) if you are a reloader. I for one would love to see some more numbers in comparing the two if anyone can provide them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I agree . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 I'm also wondering why the 1-10 twist Barrel, why not something a little slower ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 13 hours ago, survivalshop said: Sharps has the RCBS Die set. http://store.srcarms.com/product-p/rcbs-dies.htm Awesome... I'm going to build one of these things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, survivalshop said: I'm also wondering why the 1-10 twist Barrel, why not something a little slower ? Interesting. I checked and it looks like the old .25-20 is 1:12 all the way up to 1:20, while the .25-06 is a 1:10. Surely this little sharps won't be punching out pills as heavy as .25-06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 58 minutes ago, planeflyer21 said: 1 hour ago, survivalshop said: I'm also wondering why the 1-10 twist Barrel, why not something a little slower ? Interesting. I checked and it looks like the old .25-20 is 1:12 all the way up to 1:20, while the .25-06 is a 1:10. Surely this little sharps won't be punching out pills as heavy as .25-06. Maybe 98 can build one with multiple barrels in different twists and test it out for us? :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, ARTrooper said: Maybe 98 can build one with multiple barrels in different twists and test it out for us? :P What other twist rates are available & I'm wondering , which way to go, as far as twist rate ? 1-11, 1-8 ? Interesting , now more to look up or at . 2 hours ago, 98Z5V said: Awesome... I'm going to build one of these things... I also will build one , if I find the right Barrel & its twist rate ( all I need is a Barrel , 98 ). I also think that 100 gr, Bullet for Hunting , is more to my liking & the BC , but the 300BLK performs well with a low BC , so why not the 25-45. So much to investigate , there are plenty of Forums whee they are talking about this cal. back into 2014 . There is also , so many who say why , there was the same for the 300BLK & its a great cal. conversion for the AR . SRC has a 1-9 in a 16" , out of stock , but seems the 1-10 isn't the only one . https://store.srcarms.com/product-p/src25x45-1-9.htm Edited March 20, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 20, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 (edited) .25-45 Sharps, LOAD DATA, AR-15, 16.5" barrel, by Ken Kempa Reduce all loads by 5%, then work up slowly. All loads use Federal brass, Winchester small rifle primers. CED M2 chrongraph for velocities. Bullet Grains Charge (gr.) Powder OAL inches FPS ft. lbs. 3-shot Ave @100yd Barnes TTSX BT 80 23.0 Alliant RL-7 2.250 2,365 993 0.94 22.5 IMR 4198 2.250 2,505 1,115 0.84 22.4 Hodgdon H4198 2.250 2,467 1,081 0.92 Nosler Ballistic Tip, Varmint 85 26.5 Hodgdon H335 2.250 2,468 1,150 1.49 22.8 Alliant RL-7 2.250 2,267 970 0.88 26.5 Accurate 2230 2.250 2,406 1,092 0.98 22.4 IMR 4198 2.250 2,415 1,101 0.95 22.3 Hodgdon H4198 2.250 2,402 1,089 0.86 Speer SP 87 27.9 Ball, Factory Load 2.230 2,673 1,348 1.24 26.0 Hodgdon H322 2.250 2,693 1,369 0.77 Factory Ramshot X-Terminator 2.250 2,602 1,278 1.33 Barnes TSX BT 100 24.3 Hodgdon H335 2.250 2,233 941 0.93 23.5 Ramshot X-Terminator 2.250 2,108 839 0.69 24.7 Accurate 2460 2.250 2,204 917 0.94 25.2 Winchester 748 2.250 2,075 813 0.69 20.4 IMR 4198 2.250 2,246 952 0.82 23.0 Hodgdon H322 2.250 2,257 961 0.84 Nosler Ballistic Tip, Hunting 100 24.6 Hodgdon H335 2.250 2,230 938 0.53 23.9 Ramshot X-Terminator 2.250 2,106 837 1.03 24.5 Accurate 2230 2.250 2,214 925 0.71 20.7 IMR 4198 2.250 2,175 893 0.91 25.3 Accurate 2460 Quote: But we discourage loading bullets heavier than 87 grains. Bullets of 117-120 grains have a steep ogive, which do not provide a good "neck weld" in the chamber. Plus you lose significant powder capacity in the case with heavier bullets. The .25-45 Sharps, at reasonable distances, offers killing power and respectable velocity. But it is not a long range cartridge. We load our factory ammo with a maximum OAL of 2.250" in order for it to fit in the magazine of an AR. PLEASE DO NOT EXCEED THESE LOADS! Load #1 - CCI 400 small rifle primer and Sierra 70 grain Blitzking .257 bullet, Powder H335 - Maximum load 30.0 grains - expected velocity of 3100 fps (needs a powder drop tube) Load #2 - CCI 400 small rifle primer and Sierra 75 grain Hollow Pnt .257 bullet, Powder Western X-terminator - Maximum load 30.0 grains - expected velocity of 3100 fps (needs a powder drop tube) Load #3 - CCI 400 small rifle primer and Speer HotCor 87 grain .257 bullet, Powder H322 - Maximum load 26.0 grains - expected velocity of 2850 fps Load #4 - CCI 400 small rifle primer and Speer HotCor 87 grain .257 bullet, Powder H335 - Maximum load 28.0 grains - expected velocity of 2900 fps Load #5 - CCI 400 small rifle primer and Speer HotCor 87 grain .257 bullet, Powder Western X-terminator - Maximum load 28.5 grains - expected velocity of 2950 fps The Ramshot X-Terminator powder comes the closest of all of the commercial powders we've tested to the velocities achieved with our factory loadings in which we use factory OEM powders. We have heard from some shooters who have found that AA2250 yields promising results, but we have not yet tested it. I think I want a 20" Barrel , not my normal thinking but for this hunting Rifle Build , I think so . Edited March 20, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted March 20, 2017 Report Share Posted March 20, 2017 the 20" would get the velocity up to give you a bit more energy on impact. my thoughts though, it is already a short range hunting rifle or we would go with a .308 or other. :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I found 2 x 20" barrels in stock, 2 x 18" in stock, and 2 x 16" in stock. Thinking about 18" for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 28 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: I found 2 x 20" barrels in stock, 2 x 18" in stock, and 2 x 16" in stock. Thinking about 18" for this one. The 18" was my first choice , but not crazy about the Mid length gas system in an 18" , nor do I want a Carbine length gas system of the 16" . My trouble with the 16" is , velocities are with in the 300 BLK range or close to it , so why bother ( with my 110 gr. Loads , that is ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 21, 2017 Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 I'm not sure about this specific caliber, but midlength gas on an 18" 5.56 barrel is pretty nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2017 Just now, 98Z5V said: I'm not sure about this specific caliber, but midlength gas on an 18" 5.56 barrel is pretty nice. Its the only length I would have on a 16" , just think longer is better . For All you perverts, I'm talking about Gas systems . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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