PA10 Nitrated 18", NB BCG, Gen 2 observations...

[bfoosh006]

 

So it finally got here...  and I wasn't kidding about PSA building as they get orders !!

Also.... as shipped, this is beyond a doubt, the most oil free rifle ever. Everything is bone dry... the best part about that is it makes finding any rough finish / binding parts easier. That is not to say the finish sucks, as a matter of fact the finish is as good as any of my AR's , Colt , BCM, Rainer Arms, etc.

It just needs a little polishing in spots, and OIL... did I mention the lack of oil ? Lol

Just as a reference ...Oil used is ALG Go-Juice.

As for the polishing... in the past I have found a little burnishing, on various parts can greatly improve the "feel" ... and the PA10 was no exception.
0000 Steel wool , the finest commonly available ( won't even scratch glass ) is what I use.

When I say a little burnishing, I mean about a minutes worth.

So far, parts minimally polished that show drastic noticeable improvement on the lower.
The inside of the buffer tube... it was just rough and gummy (?)... after a spin down the buffer tube with a 0000 steel wool wrapped 12 gauge bore brush, it is much improved, then after a proper OILING on the interior of the tube and on the buffer and spring, it is nice and smooth.

The disassembly pins.... burnished and lubed.. improved smoothness.
Burnished the outside of the buffer tube as well.... much smoother.

Now for the most interesting polished / burnished "part".... the magwell.

One of the first things I tried was the mag drop and insertion...Magpul 10,20,25, and 25 M118 wouldn't drop free.. loaded or not loaded.
A few minutes of burnishing the interior of the magwell, with little effort given to being through... resulted in all Magpuls dropping free, unloaded and loaded.

Worked so well that I don't even feel the need to oil the magwell.............. just kidding, gave it a coat simply because it is bone dry.

Again... very little effort to polish up working surfaces only... maybe 3 minutes.

I should add, the PSA rubbery hand grip is pretty dang nice.

Trigger is typical "MilSpec gritty"... I am going to try the USGI paracord trigger job on it because I want to see if it works. I will measure , with my cheap RCBS trigger pull gauge, the before and after weights.

Straight out of the box, its heft is ok... I was expecting more heft / weight, given PSA's 10.4lb listing.... actual weight... 8 1/4lbs bone stock.

The only way I could make it close to the advertised 10.4lbs, was by adding a fully loaded 25rd Magpul and the owners manual and magwell security lock.


I will be adding info as I get time... but so far I feel confident I will like this PA10.

[Sisco]

Thanks for the report. It sounds like a nice firearm. Look forward to your range report. If PAS has fixed their problems, it will be a credit to them, especially at those prices.

[bfoosh006]

OAL as delivered....collapsed, 37 1/8ish"... extended 40 1/2ish" 
 

[bfoosh006]

Various staking appears GTG.

The buffer springs and tubes are same OAL as AR15 carbine parts.... but the .308 buffer is shorter and the 308 buffer spring is thicker.

Buffers as shown... AR15 carbine buffer, PSA OEM PA10 Carbine buffer, KAK HvyWt .308 carbine buffer 5.5oz that I will be trying out ( I prefer my rifles to have mild recoil impulses. )

Sorry about the posts being "cut up".... I am not used to time limits on posting.

And I really need to say again.... this rifle was bone dry.... so prior to shooting your PA10.... at the VERY least, field strip and lube thoroughly.

More to come.... including after the OEM configuration test firing, my add on's.

[bfoosh006]

More to come.... including after the OEM configuration test firing, my add on's..... PRS Gen 3 w/ rifle length buffer tube and HvyWt KAK 308 9.3oz rifle length buffer, LaRue Trigger, Tubbs Flatwire spring,  maybe a SLR adjustable gas block, etc.

I don't know if all those parts are compatible yet.

[survivalshop]

  So your putting a Rifle stock on , which one ?

 As far as that trick Trigger job , well ,nothing like putting extreme pressure on a weak sear engagement surface , your LaRue FCG will be a world of difference & you know it .

 Do you plan on a trip to the range before any modifications ?

[bfoosh006]

  On 7/6/2017 at 8:28 AM, survivalshop said:

  So your putting a Rifle stock on , which one ?

 As far as that trick Trigger job , well ,nothing like putting extreme pressure on a weak sear engagement surface , your LaRue FCG will be a world of difference & you know it .

 Do you plan on a trip to the range before any modifications ?

Magpul PRS Gen 3.
And as for the trigger trick... the PSA supplied trigger is pretty bad, so I figured why not try the trick...

And yes I will fire for reliability and accuracy results prior to most changes... I will install the trigger and finish finessing / burnishing parts.

I need to add ... the upper to lower fit is snug, but the pins themselves are slightly undersized.. not enough to really matter, but the fit could be better just from better fitting pins.

Also , the charging handle is "dragging" in its channel... already have wear marks from the few dozen times I have hand cycled it. So I have to figure out how to "loosen" that up. Even the BCM Mod 5 drags... so it is a upper issue, not the charging handles. ( Even the PSA charging handle needed oil on the latch !? ... Haha.

[Sisco]

I am guessing they slap them together without a test fire if it was bone dry. What type of ammo are you going to start it out on?

[survivalshop]

58 minutes ago, Sisco said:

I am guessing they slap them together without a test fire if it was bone dry. What type of ammo are you going to start it out on?

 I would hope they proof tested their rifles .

 I also find it odd that their 308 Carbine Spring is a little short .

Edited July 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[Sisco]

1 hour ago, survivalshop said:

 I would hope they proof tested their rifles .

 I also find it odd that their 308 Carbine Spring is a little short .

You would hope. Wonder who does the actual manufacturing/assembly for them?

[bfoosh006]

  On 7/6/2017 at 9:53 AM, Sisco said:

I am guessing they slap them together without a test fire if it was bone dry. What type of ammo are you going to start it out on?

I also have a SAI M21... so I have a lot of surplus 7.62x51 and current production .308 / 7.62x51.

I am going to try Fed XM80, MEN, Hirt., FGMM 168gr for the OEM test firing. Maybe other common ammo.

They certainly did not test fire it... the charging handle left marks upon my first pull back. And no powder residue at all, any where.

[bfoosh006]

  On 7/6/2017 at 10:52 AM, survivalshop said:

 I would hope they proof tested their rifles .

 I also find it odd that their 308 Carbine Spring is a little short .

I am going to "play" with it more tonight... so I will post more info as I learn.

The marks from the charging handle concern me more... not aesthetically, but rather from a function perspective.

I will post more photos, including the charging handle marks.

[survivalshop]

 Check for Burr's inside the Upper's Charging handles raceway or tunnel . Most Charging handles will wear on one side depending on what hand you pull it back with , it gets pulled to one side & it will show signs even worse , with of those fancy over sized release levers on it . 

Edited July 6, 2017 by survivalshop

[bfoosh006]

  On 7/6/2017 at 7:06 PM, survivalshop said:

 Check for Burr's inside the Upper's Charging handles raceway or tunnel . Most Charging handles will wear on one side depending on what hand you pull it back with , it gets pulled to one side & it will show signs even worse , with of those fancy over sized release levers on it . 

Got that part figured out. The charging handle has no "tab" on the chamber end tip and With no tab ... the charging handle made the whole topside drag and bind.... combine that with the 2 outside guide tabs being snug it was turning the charging handle into a de-burring device.

I suppose I could slightly file the 2 guide tabs and make the charging handle a tiny bit looser.... but whatever was removed and the BCM Mod 3 ( I said Mod 5 earlier.. oops ) is working fine.

[bfoosh006]

I am going to gently polish the feed ramps.... they are scraping up the chambering rounds pretty good.

I am also going to thoroughly clean the chamber, the manually ejected 168gr FGMM rounds.. while extracting good show obvious scratching / scuffing in places I consider odd.

[bfoosh006]

I am going to get out some .7.62x51 and see how well they chamber, etc.... and try the Tubbs Flatwire spring, just to see if it would even fit / "function" in the PA10's AR15 carbine length buffer tube.

Next issue.... I can live with this, but a standard Magpul Moe+ grip has a HUGE gap when mounted....I imagine any other AR15 grip will have the same issue.

Most likely I will use some black RTV sealant or something and fill it in.

The PSA supplied one fit nicely.

Sorry if the photos aren't clear but the camera and I couldn't find the right lighting.

NOTE... I changed the safety to a 45 degree ambi... so the photo's do not reflect the OEM PSA one.

 

 

[survivalshop]

2 hours ago, bfoosh006 said:

I am going to gently polish the feed ramps.... they are scraping up the chambering rounds pretty good.

I am also going to thoroughly clean the chamber, the manually ejected 168gr FGMM rounds.. while extracting good show obvious scratching / scuffing in places I consider odd.

 I would say Locking Lug scratches , different loadings will leave scratches in different places , happens with ejecting loaded cartridges . Sharp machining on Locking Lugs may wear in with round count & leave less scratches .

 They could also be from the Chamber .

  PSA proprietary grip was made just for their Receiver contour , 308AR's are all different , it seems , sometimes you get lucky & they fit , some Brands fit better then others . 

Edited July 7, 2017 by survivalshop

[bfoosh006]

SurvivalShop,
I agree with the wear in comment, but I am concerned with how long that would take with the harder nitrated finish... frankly I have no idea.
 

I should have taken a photo of the black gunk that came out of the chamber... whatever packing oil / rust inhibitor they used on the barrels most certainly needed to be cleaned out to aid in smoother chambering.

I "helped" barely round out the breach end of the chamber with a little polishing compound on a 20guage bore mop attached to a spare rod piece spun by a low rpm drill... more black gunk... and I can physically feel it is smoother now.

The previous case marks ( 7.62x51 Fed. MSR had them as well ) are now eliminated... so more burnishing worked.

So far ... IMHO, I think with a little QC on my end... any concerns are easily "fixed" with very little effort.

Up until this point all these QC concerns could have been taken care of in one afternoon... so I am happy with all the results.

Off to polish the feed ramps.

Have a good evening !

 

Oops ... meant to add, a good polishing of the interior of the buffer tube smoothed that up a LOT....

 

[Sisco]

This thread is going to be useful for new PSA 10 owners. You are going about it in a smart manner. If you get a chance post in the service rifle thread your thoughts on the M21. That is a nice piece of equipment.

[bfoosh006]

  On 7/6/2017 at 11:47 PM, Sisco said:

This thread is going to be useful for new PSA 10 owners. You are going about it in a smart manner. If you get a chance post in the service rifle thread your thoughts on the M21. That is a nice piece of equipment.

Thank you for the comment, I am trying to be methodical it the "observations".. I hope they aren't to long winded.

Tonight's adventure was cleaning the barrel.... all I can say is wow... it was filthy.

I decided to try a simple 4-6 breach end scrub with a bronze bore brush and just the Go Juice first....

This is what wiped out on the first patch from JUST that light scrub....

Sooo.... be SURE to clean the virgin barrel prior to firing !!

 

[bfoosh006]

I have decided to for-go the feed ramp polishing until after the first firing.

If the feedramps have any issues , then I will try to polish them. ( I do want to see if the OEM configuration is "ok" )


Next, I am going to swap in the LaRue Trigger... ultimately I will want it in there so why not benefit from it now.

I am still going to do the trigger trick on the PSA trigger.... just as soon as I find my trigger gauge !?

I am not going to remove the second "O Ring" .. yet.... So far,  manual feeding has been fine from a full 25rd Magpul after the various polishing.

The Tubbs Flatwire recoil spring fit "better" then the OEM PSA one.... I say better only because it slightly narrowed the overtravel gap between the buffer face and the bolt stop.... OEM distance was about 1/4" and the Tubbs is 3/16"... IMHO 1/4 " is slightly to much, and can lead to bolt stop breakage. My 9MM Colt pattern PCC has proven that.... I can always resort to the quarter/s in the end of the buffer tube if need be.

So.... tomorrow will be the test firing.

I will have the PA10 in its OEM configuration for all intents and purposes... grip changed, trigger, Lantac brake are the only part changes done so far.

I will also try out the heavier 5.5oz shorty buffer, The Tubbs Flatwire, A Tubbs Carrier Weight System ( combined and separately ).. and possible remove an o-ring from the extractor if needed.

Test firing will be scoped and 100yds.

 

Later I will change to the PRS stock and possibly an SLR adjustable gas block.

Wish me luck !!

[Sisco]

Good luck. Interested to see its performance.

[jtallen83]

Best of luck, hope the PSA performs well for you. This is a very informative test plan, a fair evaluation looks to be at hand. 

[washguy]

BFOO     They did not give you a car308 buffer spring...the car308 spring is longer its 11 inch and a1/4 but if you put the Tubbs in its all good...use the Tubbs with the KAK buffer  Im a big fan of the KAK heavy car buffer just this last week I spent the day just swapping springs and buffers around in different rifles the gun range..... I am a Tubbs fanboy like forever...but no more. the sweetest combo with smallest felt recoil is a Sprinco orange spring combined with the KAK heavy buffer .I really wished this wasn't true and just a fluke....had to order new springs and KAK buffers...if it was close in the felt recoil I would have just left everything alone...but it wasn't....crap!         Wash

[bfoosh006]

Ok... everyone gets three guess how many issues I had....

I had zero issues

No feeding issues, no extraction issues, no tight magwell issues... Zero.. nothing.

I fired at least 300rds, and 20ish makes / brands , and weights from 130-175gr.

I am happy with my purchase, at this point I would recommend one of the PSA PA10's to anyone... I will add, seriously, clean the thing, and lube everything.

I will be adding the SLR adjustable gas block as well as the Magpul PRS stock. I believe it "kicks" more then needed.

Ejection was bouncing out at the 1:30, smacking the case deflector each time with all the brands of ammo.

 

Washguy...

I did try the KAK 5.5oz ( ? ) buffer and it helped very slightly.... but if I did have the wrong .308 carbine buffer spring then the results could be skewed.
I did also try the Tubbs Flatwire with the heavy KAK..and the Tubbs CWS ( adds even 4.6oz more ) ... still ejecting hard forward... no real noticeable difference.

 

After my photos finally come through... I will post photos of the various groups... please not judge the round counts in the various groups... I frankly didn't think the day would go so smoothly, so my "plans" changed and I adjusted as needed.

So some of the groups are 7-8 rds, some are 10, some are 20.... and frankly, some are so poor ( SSA ammo ) that I had a heck of a time figuring out where the shots were even hitting !