bfoosh006 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 On 7/9/2017 at 9:05 PM, survivalshop said: Is that the Gen 3 PRS ? Looks like the Rifle shoots ! Yes Gen 3... gotta a heck of a deal on the 4th... And I do expect better groups when it kicks less abruptly ! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) I have some 168 moly coated. It is accurate. It also coats the barrel, how accurate was the stuff right after it? Probably pretty good. FGMM 168 looked pretty good. The barrel will take about 200 rounds to completely break in. What did you feel was the most consistent ammo? ZQ1 is not that accurate, but the brass is great for reloading. Edited July 10, 2017 by Sisco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 On 7/9/2017 at 9:35 PM, Sisco said: I have some 168 moly coated. It is accurate. It also coats the barrel, how accurate was the stuff right after it? Probably pretty good. FGMM 168 looked pretty good. The barrel will take about 200 rounds to completely break in. What did you feel was the most consistent ammo? ZQ1 is not that accurate, but the brass is great for reloading. I am going to not include the older BH... simply because it is older, and who knows if the current production shoots as well from this rifle. I still have numerous other .308 / 7.62x51 I will try, I only had those on hand at the moment. IMHO... The Hornady 168gr ELD Match easily shot its group. The Hornady SM 155gr seems like a good low-cost to accuracy round And the Hirtenberg is certainly worth checking more thoroughly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot_Scraper Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 1 minute ago, bfoosh006 said: I am going to not include the older BH... simply because it is older, and who knows if the current production shoots as well from this rifle. I still have numerous other .308 / 7.62x51 I will try, I only had those on hand at the moment.IMHO... The Hornady 168gr ELD Match easily shot its group. The Hornady SM 155gr seems like a good low-cost to accuracy round And the Hirtenberg is certainly worth checking more thoroughly. That's an impressive plethora of flavors you got. How was the fit between the upper and lower on your's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 On 7/9/2017 at 10:05 PM, Boot_Scraper said: That's an impressive plethora of flavors you got. How was the fit between the upper and lower on your's? Thanks.. I am a ammo whore. I feel compelled to try some of everything in case I am missing out ! Lol For that matter... If you guys are interested in a LOT of factory ammo chrono'd data for 16" 9MM , 16" & 20" Ar15...Let me know. I am more then happy to share. My fit is very acceptable... but I am going to snug it up with some of the X-Shims... I have used them before on AR15's, but had to order some for the PA10. I realize most people say upper to lower fit doesn't matter... but that makes no sense to me.... IMHO that is like saying a loose stock to action doesn't matter. http://varmintlight.com/x-shim-kits/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 8 hours ago, bfoosh006 said: I realize most people say upper to lower fit doesn't matter... but that makes no sense to me.... IMHO that is like saying a loose stock to action doesn't matter. Well , the AR type rifles are made different & some tolerances are there for a reason , its not the same as a loose stock . Too tight & you can actually decrease accuracy & accelerate component wear . They look like Plastic shims or something similar , how many rounds do you think it will take to deform them ? to me they, like the Wedge , are Placebo's , but if you or others think it helps , go for it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 On 7/10/2017 at 7:58 AM, survivalshop said: Well , the AR type rifles are made different & some tolerances are there for a reason , its not the same as a loose stock . Too tight & you can actually decrease accuracy & accelerate component wear . They look like Plastic shims or something similar , how many rounds do you think it will take to deform them ? to me they, like the Wedge , are Placebo's , but if you or others think it helps , go for it . I have had some on numerous other AR's with no deformation after hundreds of rounds. And just use enough to snug up the fit, so as not to put unneeded stress on the upper to lower pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 16 hours ago, bfoosh006 said: BTW... this is what it looks like now. Current weight... 12 1/4lbs as pictured. Geeez put that thing on weightwatchers ! most all of my DPMS/Mega come in at 9 + pounds with optics and empty mag....ive got 2 that are 8 pounds with optics and empty mag but they are a hybrid. I think I might have a heavy one ,but its so far back in the bunker it hasn't seen the light of day in years I wouldn't even worry about recoil,,,crap just getting it out of the truck would be my task for the day Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 16 hours ago, bfoosh006 said: BTW... this is what it looks like now. Current weight... 12 1/4lbs as pictured. Geeez put that thing on weightwatchers ! most all of my DPMS/Mega come in at 9 + pounds with optics and empty mag....ive got 2 that are 8 pounds with optics and empty mag but they are a hybrid. I think I might have a heavy one ,but its so far back in the bunker it hasn't seen the light of day in years I wouldn't even worry about recoil,,,crap just getting it out of the truck would be my task for the day Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) You can say that again My 20"HB is about that weight , without Bipod . Edited July 10, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Lol... yea the scope and PRS added some weight... but that's ok by me... it will make any bench shooting easier ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted July 10, 2017 Report Share Posted July 10, 2017 Damn I put the KAK buffer in the tube... holy crap the rifle got real heavy ? Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Ok... finally got some time to install the SLR adjustable gas block ... easy job, Right ? I bought the dimpling jig, so truthfully the SLR block install should be very easy..... Enter PSA's Freefloat tube barrel nut and the PSA gas tube..... ( pics will follow ) I haven't built a lot of AR's , but, I do know the barrel nut should NOT force the gas tube into the uppers gas tube "hole" top portion. The gas tube is in full contact with the front of the barrel nut... enough so that it has eroded / scrapped away the finish. Ultimately, IMHO it would have wore a hole / weak spot into the gas tube.... it has that much contact. The top portion of the gas tube end, where it engages the gas key, also shows more wear then the bottom with just my eyes. Also, I do know that you want the gas tube to move "somewhat" freely through the uppers hole. Any binding of the gas tube can affect overall / consistent performance and accuracy... ( you don't want ANY binding ) you really want the rifle to consistently return to battery the same way every time. The photo shows the spot where the contact is , the little wear spot... the larger edge wear is from me sliding the rail free. More photos will follow... at this point I am going to dremel down the area that has no contact with the rail and see how well the gas tube fits after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Oops... gas port was centered perfect with the gas block... as near as I can tell minimum gas port size is .0725+. No barrel dimpling, just screwed tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Gas Tube should not touch , as you have said , get to it with the Dremel ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 37 minutes ago, survivalshop said: Gas Tube should not touch , as you have said , get to it with the Dremel ! Normally I wouldn't dremel but it is a cheap aluminum barrel nut and handguard. This is how close...notice how one end you can see light through... and the other end you cannot. I ended up having to shave the top its full length... whoopee !! I will post photos of the after the fix later. Hand assembled shows much better clearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 (edited) I find it strange that the Gas Tube is hitting the Barrel Nut at all , it looks like the Barrel Nut is made larger Dia. on one end or the Gas Tube is bent or coming out of the Gas Block at an angle . There is another theory , the Threads on the Barrel Nut or the Upper Receiver are not right . I actually have a old , one piece HG/Barrel Nut all in one from back in the late seventies , made of Steel no less , made by Olympic Arms , that has bad threads & the whole HG once on the Upper is not centered with the Barrel . I have an Aluminum one on an AR15 which is perfect , they were the only type available back then for a Free Float HG . Some Gas Tubes on some of these HG's Barrel Nuts are really close because of the Fact of the size of the 308AR LR Barrel . Does that Gas Tube have a step down in Dia. where its hitting the Barrel Nut ? I would have Torqued the Barrel Down , marked the area where the Gas Tube is hitting & then removed the Nut & made a flat in that area or turn it down on a lathe . Edited July 25, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 3 hours ago, survivalshop said: I find it strange that the Gas Tube is hitting the Barrel Nut at all , it looks like the Barrel Nut is made larger Dia. on one end or the Gas Tube is bent or coming out of the Gas Block at an angle . There is another theory , the Threads on the Barrel Nut or the Upper Receiver are not right . I actually have a old , one piece HG/Barrel Nut all in one from back in the late seventies , made of Steel no less , made by Olympic Arms , that has bad threads & the whole HG once on the Upper is not centered with the Barrel . I have an Aluminum one on an AR15 which is perfect , they were the only type available back then for a Free Float HG . Some Gas Tubes on some of these HG's Barrel Nuts are really close because of the Fact of the size of the 308AR LR Barrel . Does that Gas Tube have a step down in Dia. where its hitting the Barrel Nut ? I would have Torqued the Barrel Down , marked the area where the Gas Tube is hitting & then removed the Nut & made a flat in that area or turn it down on a lathe . Basically I did make a flat. And IMHO, I think it was really about the PSA gas block and gas tube .. after installing the SLR block and a higher quality gas tube the clearance is much better. Kind of excited to try the adjustable gas block. I will also try the heavy 9.3oz buffer with the gas block fully open to mimic the OEM configuration... and adjusted lower. I hope the standard rifle buffer works best, ( with the SLR block ) since there is no reason to have a lot of mass banging around So much better, that I have to wonder if the gas tube cant was also involved in the original PSA charging handle binding problem !? I will check later to see if the PSA charging handle and BCG no longer binds up so bad. Next... the bolt catch paddle is banging the upper ... Dremel time for the back side of the paddle !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 Clearance now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 25, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 I did have to grind the whole top of the barrel nut, front to back, that's how much interference there was. Grinding the front only just moved the contact point further down the nut.... clear to the receiver end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 I like the way you get to the problem and give detail solution to said problem. From what I have seen you have provided some good info here. Thanks With your observations a $600.00 .308 is a good deal for a truck rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted July 25, 2017 Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 8 hours ago, unforgiven said: I like the way you get to the problem and give detail solution to said problem. From what I have seen you have provided some good info here. Thanks With your observations a $600.00 .308 is a good deal for a truck rifle. +1 Good info bfoosh. You are definitely breaking new ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 26, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2017 Thanks Guys !! $600 .308 Truck gun at that !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 Where to start.... Adjustable gas block, what a difference ! I whole heartedly recommend the SLR adjustable gas block, it truly transformed the abrupt cycling PA10 into a smooth cycling .308 rifle. Ended up using the 5 clicks from fully closed setting, 10 more clicks ( opening the gas flow more ) were available. I used the standard weight AR15 rifle buffer for the accuracy and function testing first 4 clicks failed to cycle 2 of 20 rounds of FGMM .308 168gr, and 5 of 40rds of ZQI, 2 of 20 Horn. TAP "AR" ( ... 5 clicks performed 100% with the FGMM, ZQI ) The Hornady TAP "AR" needed 6 clicks to cycle with the KAK 9.3oz heavy rifle buffer. Interestingly, at one point while firing the Horn. TAP AR round , I adjusted the gas block one additional click wider, and the point of impact for the next 10rds shifted 2 inches down and 2 1/2 inches left ?! .... It is just as possible that I "shifted" as well... but 10rds makes it hard for me to think it was just me. ZQI also performed miserably accuracy wise ... again. At 5 clicks and the rifle fired approx. 300rds trouble free. ( Except the later heavy buffer tested 2 Horn. rds. , with the standard rifle buffer it was fine ) The brass caseheads no longer show smear marks from the ejector, which is directly attributable to the "slower" ( milliseconds slower ) speed of the action. Pressure levels have dropped more prior to extraction because of this... so the case has a moment more to time to lose the chamber gripping PSI. The new replaced by me ..firing pin retaining cotter key is not bent ( I forgot to mention this earlier, the OEM PSA cotter key was getting bent from the violent cycling !?!? , I had a replacement on hand so changed it out ) The rifle now feels like a 7.62x39 AR.... so it is a pleasure to shoot !! I haven't compared group measurements yet ( from the OEM configuration compared to the current configuration ) ... but I did see improvement, for the most part across the board. I will add.... the GEN 3 Magpul PRS's recoil pad.. while "softer" then the old models, needs the sharp edges radiused more..... by rd 300, it was biting into the shoulder more then needed... I will fix that ! Later on I will post the various ammos groups. For now, and on a completely different subject / caliber.... if any of you were lucky enough to get some RUAG 5.56 SS109 HC, it really shoots very well ....9rds 100yds, benched scoped bagged... Next photo ... 10rds ADI M855, same benched.. Last .223 /5.56 group.. 20rds Fed. Tipped Varmint 50gr, rapid fire, same BSB'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfoosh006 Posted July 29, 2017 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 (edited) 1st Photo....FGMM 168gr... Oddly, the rifle prefers , slow methodical shooting with this ammo. 2nd photo ...Reasonably rapid fire... ( bang, back on target, bang ) produces large groups ... not all ammo did this. 3rd photo.... GGG 2013 Ball.... GGG preferred to be rapid fired.... 4th photo.... as well as the XM80 Ball, rapid fire. Maybe shouldn't drink so much coffee and smoke so many cigs, prior to accuracy testing.... Lol Edited July 29, 2017 by bfoosh006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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