jtallen83 Posted September 18, 2017 Report Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) Sig is at it again, another recall for trigger issues, improperly heat treated two stage triggers. Since Ron Cohen became president of the company there has been one issue after another relating to poor QC. Besides all the firearms issues they put out an entire line of red dots and lasers in the late 2000's that were chinese junk. The man has supervised the dismantling of a great firearms company's reputation. The latest in the long line of shoddy QC; https://www.sigsauer.com/press-releases/sig-sauer-safety-warning-recall-notice/ I love my PM400 and MK 25's, would stake my life on them, but can't see myself buying any "sig innovation" any time soon and I'm not alone; Edited September 18, 2017 by jtallen83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 He said it very well. I would be reluctant to buy a Sig right now. Glad I went for a FNX 45 rather then a Sig P227. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Oh please , the days of hand built Revolvers, Pistols & rifles has long gone , this is nothing new , they are all mass produced & have been for a long time . Cutting corners for cost effectiveness has been going on on all levels of firearms to not only keep up with demand , but for competitiveness , recalls are a fact of life with all forms of manufactured goods now a days , really doesn't matter who made it or where its made , fact of life . If it doesn't work , send it back or sell it to someone who will get it fixed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Didnt have too much interest in the brand. Bit less now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 hours ago, survivalshop said: Oh please , the days of hand built Revolvers, Pistols & rifles has long gone , this is nothing new , they are all mass produced & have been for a long time . Cutting corners for cost effectiveness has been going on on all levels of firearms to not only keep up with demand , but for competitiveness , recalls are a fact of life with all forms of manufactured goods now a days , really doesn't matter who made it or where its made , fact of life . Mark LaRue doesn't believe this. There are still a few others out there with the same mentality, but very few. I'm a firm believer in what you stated at the end, too, but with a caveat... If it doesn't work , send it back or sell it to someone who will get it fixed . Or, fix it yourself with better aftermarket parts. I did this on my 700 with the trigger recall. "Hmmm, send it to Remington, and wait 3 weeks for it? Or, drive my a$s up to Timney, and pick up me new trigger in the morning?... What to do, what to do?..." Damn right I called Timney the next morning, and snatched up my new trigger by noon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Right now there is a lot of Sig hate & they are being looked at with a Microscope for anything & I believe it all has to do with the Military contract . I'm not a fan boy nor do I drink the Koolade of any brand , unless it it is capable of sending Bullets down range . I have far too many brands in my locker to even say I prefer one over the other . Talk about Soft FCG components , just how many factory Milspec Triggers in AR's have failed with low round counts ? Its why you don't see many long term Factory Milspec FCG's in AR's , sure someone will come up with one that has been there for a very long time with out issue , but I can tell you from working on them for almost forty years years that they are far & few that make it that far that are shot a lot . Right now its a feeding frenzy on SIG & as I posted on a thread on a Sig forum on do you still trust Sig , I posted that this is an internet forum & any issues will be brought up & magnified from those who also had an issue & for some reason or another , wasn't taken care of , so now they all suck ! The thing is , as I wrote , the ones you read here or other Forums , just how many are out there , that are working just fine , those are not being posted on forums & if you take into account that for every factory mass produced issue , there will be many many times that many of them working just fine . Let put the P320 drop issue in perspective , 500K or more in circulation & there may be one drop fire, where someone was hurt & thats not been clarified as of yet . Speculate all you want , it hasn't been proven yet . Doesn't stop the Forums or Internet from saying the firearm is not safe , no firearm is safe if miss handled , period . I find all this laughable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 You won't be laughing if you need a top dollar firearm fixed, send it in and then be told it is "in spec" when it has the same malfunction it did when you sent it in. Honestly these last couple issues show me they are starting to be more proactive when problems arise. It was almost two years of denials on the P938 MSH issue before they started installing correctly engineered parts, then they didn't put any info out, only corrected it for owners that used theirs enough for it to break. Notice they don't advertise with their old slogan "SIG, To hell and back reliability " . I have hopes these recent issues will prompt Mr. Cohen to get back to that mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 SIG...to factory and back again reliability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted September 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 28 minutes ago, blue109 said: SIG...to factory and back again reliability. funny........ sad but true! I am going to plagerize that on the Sig talk forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 8 hours ago, blue109 said: SIG...to factory and back again reliability. 8 hours ago, jtallen83 said: funny........ sad but true! I am going to plagerize that on the Sig talk forum! You guys are probably Glock fans If I owned that Rifle , I would document the issue with video & tell them to keep it till its repaired correctly or give me a new one , period . Your being too nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 19, 2017 Report Share Posted September 19, 2017 Good read if you haven't already . https://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 Im a huge glock fan. Dont own any or have any desire...but they are awesome weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 7 hours ago, blue109 said: Im a huge glock fan. Dont own any or have any desire...but they are awesome weapons. How many Sig's do you own or have owned ? Or Glocks for that matter ? There is no doubt that Glock is a good firearm , no one said it wasn't , but I don't own one because I don't like the way it fits my hand . I have shot many Glocks , 9mm & 45acp , they shot fine , just didn't like the way they felt in my hand , its why I won't purchase one , like a lot of other Pistols . If you read some of these Forums about how this guy or another think Sig sucks & won't own one , you see most are pushing Glocks & how great they are , in a Sig Forum , no less. Just plain Sig hate , like the same you heard about the Springfield XD series Pistols when they first came out , don't hear much now , about how they are junk pistols made in Croatia. They have proven to be great Pistol . This all reminds me of Politics & how the left is pushing the hate for POTUS Trump . Their product didn't win , so its hate the one that did . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 The majority of the XD hate disappeared when the brand proved itself. Sig seems to be doing its best to go the other way with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 20, 2017 Report Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, blue109 said: The majority of the XD hate disappeared when the brand proved itself. Sig seems to be doing its best to go the other way with that. All explained in my first response in this thread . Change & innovation can have growing pains . I'll add competitiveness also. Edited September 20, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 On 9/19/2017 at 3:41 AM, survivalshop said: Talk about Soft FCG components , just how many factory Milspec Triggers in AR's have failed with low round counts ? Its why you don't see many long term Factory Milspec FCG's in AR's , sure someone will come up with one that has been there for a very long time with out issue , but I can tell you from working on them for almost forty years years that they are far & few that make it that far that are shot a lot . I'm that guy. I've spent alot of time on issued M-whatever triggers, with very, very high round counts, and have never even seen a trigger malfunction. Ever. Late '85 through early '07 - and I never saw a trigger failure or malfunction. All of those were sear-triggers, never down. They were either FA or 3-rd burst triggers in all of them, never a semi-non-mil trigger. Not one ever went down. 24k rounds in a weekend. THAT is alot of shooting. That's just one weekend in a year of training, and training never stops. My $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, 98Z5V said: I'm that guy. I've spent alot of time on issued M-whatever triggers, with very, very high round counts, and have never even seen a trigger malfunction. Ever. Late '85 through early '07 - and I never saw a trigger failure or malfunction. All of those were sear-triggers, never down. They were either FA or 3-rd burst triggers in all of them, never a semi-non-mil trigger. Not one ever went down. 24k rounds in a weekend. THAT is alot of shooting. That's just one weekend in a year of training, and training never stops. My $0.02. I used to have a bin full of them that had failed in one way or another ,I would say mostly disconnector failure , but when you see any kind of issue , I replace the whole Trigger system & I used to work on Select fire rifles of all kinds . not just 16"s . I tossed them all out when I moved here , no reason to keep Components around , if you don't trust them . Edit , I was working on them in the 70"s , there may be something to that also. 24K rounds in a weekend, just you & one rifle ? Edited September 21, 2017 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted September 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 18 hours ago, survivalshop said: All explained in my first response in this thread . Change & innovation can have growing pains . I'll add competitiveness also. Problem that is biting Sig is they have passed the pain off on their civilian customers, not cool! 4 hours ago, survivalshop said: 24K rounds in a weekend, just you & one rifle ? In my short stay at the 1/75th I fired more live rounds than I have during the rest of my life combined, those men train hard. I never counted but remember being on the range for the entire day wishing we would run out of ammo at noon, blisters on the hand oozing puss, gas burning your eyes to a crisp, god damn that was fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 Lol Ive never put that much down, but I remember a few times wishing we ran out of ammo as well. Everyone thinks shooting ALL day sounds awesome until you have to go shoot ALL day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 4 hours ago, jtallen83 said: Problem that is biting Sig is they have passed the pain off on their civilian customers, not cool! Cant disagree with that . I'm one of them Just never knew there was so much hate for Sig , till the drop fire issue came up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 3 hours ago, blue109 said: Lol Ive never put that much down, but I remember a few times wishing we ran out of ammo as well. Everyone thinks shooting ALL day sounds awesome until you have to go shoot ALL day. Good point...and you never get to pick you'r range day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 21, 2017 Report Share Posted September 21, 2017 3 hours ago, unforgiven said: Good point...and you never get to pick you'r range day... You would need a Truck & a couple of Days . I can see the need for prolonged trigger time for long fire fight training , but man thats a lot of ammo , who pays for that $hit Oh , us . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 22, 2017 Report Share Posted September 22, 2017 18 hours ago, survivalshop said: 24K rounds in a weekend, just you & one rifle ? Team training, 4-man teams. 4 rifles. Immediate action drills and break contact drills. Daylight Crawl/Walk/Run, then Night Crawl/Walk/Run. Optics, irons, weapons lights, no lights, NVGs... With no kit, with all your kit, then all your kit plus rucks, then rucks at mission-weight... Lots of rounds, lots of movement, very sore afterwards. Best PT you can do. 14 hours ago, jtallen83 said: In my short stay at the 1/75th I fired more live rounds than I have during the rest of my life combined, those men train hard. I never counted but remember being on the range for the entire day wishing we would run out of ammo at noon, blisters on the hand oozing puss, gas burning your eyes to a crisp, god damn that was fun! Truth right there. You wish for it to be over. Train to standard, train to standard, train to standard... Hit higher and higher proficiency levels, and you have to watch it close, because you start going backwards. You end up training to the point of failure, and when that happens, you stop and figure it out, and come to a "fix it right now" solution that works. Then, you look over and realize that you still have 1/3 of the ammo pile left to go - push through it. It's a fucking hoot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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