Albroswift Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Research dwell time. Have been, that's why the questions 2 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: This is more gas timing than available pressure. With a tube that's too short, you're cutting of the needed gas supply for the recoil, extraction and ejection, and reloading operations, early. Doesn't seem like much, but it can make the world of difference. Interesting science. I'll be doing some more testing into powders and bullet weights after I get all the mechanics correct. Got a couple nice loads to start from after yesterday's session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Well guess what. Sent an email to Anderson suggesting they send me a 12" gas tube, their reply was I have an older model that is known to have cycling problems and they want me to send it back and they will replace the upper and lower with their newest model. Not sure if I should take them up on that or not! + is new receiver - is shipping hassle and another transfer. I'm almost there, Im leaning towards a 15 dollar tube, but hats off to Andersons willingness to make it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armed Eye Doc Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) It sounds like they may be learning lessons as they go. As long as the lessons are learned and they move forward to make things better, that can be a good thing. It sucks to be in the learning curve though. Edited August 13, 2018 by Armed Eye Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 They say they can ship repairs both ways without ffl involvement but if they send with a new lower receiver I think It will need to go through a dealer, new serial number. Sent a M&P back to smith for repair in March and they just replaced the pistol, so needed ffl AND get this, ffl dealer needed receipt showing I paid state sales tax or he would have been forced to collect tax on actual value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 Some Cool Labradar screen shots from Saturday's session 308 180 SST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 308 150 SST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 338 200 SST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 I would take them up on the new gun. They can have the old one. I'd want them to explain "the old one is know to have cycling issue" - why? What was wrong, and what is changed on the "new one" that fixes those cycling issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 We have already resolved those issues and know what was wrong, right? So... Re-replace trigger, comp, recoil system, bcg stop with their factory parts, send it back, get new gun, reinstall aftermarket parts...because...? Lot of work to undo/ redo. Or just put the right gas tube in and call it a day. If the upper was more beaten up I would be more inclined to lean that way. Nice to know they stand behind their builds though. I sent them a list and photos of everything I replaced, see if they still want it back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 14, 2018 Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 13 minutes ago, Albroswift said: We have already resolved those issues and know what was wrong, right? That's one way to look at it - I'd still like to hear it from them - and what they've done to "fix" everything to make it functional. If they have a list of what is wrong with those early ones, and they have a list of corrections they've applied to make it work - then it might be worth sending in, no?... If they just say, "You know, well, they didn't function very well - but we've fixed that!"... Yeah, okay. You can't say what you've done to resolve it - I'm not sending anything in, just to waste time and get the same thing back. It doesn't matter what anybody has seen here, and I don't think you're seeing that point. It matters what they discovered, and what they changed, as to whether I'd send it back if it was mine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 I did see your point, If I could get that information from them, If they even know what they fixed, 2 big IFS. And my experience dealing with manufacturers of all types in the past, they will likely never admit anything. Just say new and improved. "Updated to new specifications" But I could surprised, never know. "Al, We will need you to return the full firearm for service. On yours, judging by the short gas tube issue, it is an older AM-10 that we have come to find issues with. They have many reports of feeding and cycling issues. Once we have the rifle back, we will replace both the upper and lower to our current model that have been updated to new specifications. We will need you to complete the form in the provided link." Otherwise, I have to think, Is it worth my aggravation? Hundreds of things I'd rather do then shipping and paperwork. And FedEx around here is worse than the cable guy. See what they say tomorrow, they usually get their support emails out early AM, I'll keep you posted. Be interesting at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 14, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2018 "The issue is with the receivers and the angle of how the magazine sits and the depth. This causes the rifles not to feed reliably, this is even more problematic with newer generations of PMags as they changed their magazine design slightly from the gen 2 to gen 3. We did not expect the change and it affected many of our rifles. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 5 hours ago, Albroswift said: "The issue is with the receivers and the angle of how the magazine sits and the depth. This causes the rifles not to feed reliably, this is even more problematic with newer generations of PMags as they changed their magazine design slightly from the gen 2 to gen 3. We did not expect the change and it affected many of our rifles. " They have a serious problem, then - these mags causing these severe issues in any other platforms?... Nope. MagPul designed them with ALOT of rifles of the same pattern, and they don't have problems, in those platforms. That's saying something right there - their initial design was shiit. They fucked something up along the way, and didn't even know it? Until a magazine manufacturer made a new magazine? Read the specs on that PMag that they're referencing... https://www.magpul.com/products/pmag-20-lrsr-gen-m3 In light of that, I'd take them up on their offer, and dump that receiver set that you have. Take their "new stuff" and drop that design that they have in your hands right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) Also, Albro - were you running those PMags? The Gen 3 LR/SR magazines? If you weren't, then it shouldn't matter what you ran. This Anderson shiit is Shady As Fuk. Edited August 15, 2018 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 I'm RUNNING GEN 3 P_MAGS! A 20 rounder came with, not sure that's a 2 or a 3 don't hardly use it, but the 2 10 rounders I purchased from brownells certainly are and they are what I do most of my range time with. From running this so far I have had no issues with what I would call "Feeding", just recoil related problems. It always puts the next round squarely into the chamber as long as the last one is out of the way, problem which has been solved to my satisfaction, thanks to this thread and $150.00 or so. Anyway, I told them I would probably send it back but first I was going to run it with the 12.06 tube and the adjustable gas block for a couple of sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 I think if they say you don’t need ffl involvement then the new receiver would be engraved with the same serial number and old receiver destroyed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 15, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 Wow, they do that $**T? S&W didn't with a cracked frame I sent in earlier this year, but Anderson continues to surprise me. You are correct, if they did it that way I would not. There RMA says "For repairs, rifle can ship both ways without ffl..." I didn't consider new receiver/ same serial number. That would make it pretty hard to date a weapon by serial number if that was done very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted August 15, 2018 Report Share Posted August 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Albroswift said: Wow, they do that $**T? Pretty sure they can't do that. 1968 GCA states "The serial number must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered, or removed, and must not duplicate any serial number placed by you on any other firearm." and that would be duplicating it. Never heard of that being done but then there is a first time for everything. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/479.102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Gun boxed up going back today. Anderson said direct replacement = no ffl transfer, they only need to keep track of the serial # internally. The Viper HS-T 6-24x50 going on the BAR, the Leupold 3-9 x 40 was a good scope in its time but after looking through the bigger optic it had to go... Probably get another Viper for the AM308 when it comes back, really like that scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 So back to gas tube length... If the tube does not clear the end of the gas key until after pressure drops to relative zero with the correct length tube, as discussed earlier, does it clear the end of the key prior to relative zero pressure if it it 1/4" too short? Is that what causes the timing issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted August 27, 2018 Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Say that again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Earlier in the thread we were discussing 11.75 gas tube vs 12.06 gas tube I think I asked where the round was when the gas tube cleared the gas key answer was somewhere down range/ how much pressure was left in the gas tube answer was none. Also discussed short tube caused timing issues. Trying to understand why timing is affected if no pressure left when tube and key disconnect. Thanks Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 Heading to UPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted August 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2018 PITA all aftermarket parts removed and stock reinstalled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albroswift Posted October 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2018 (edited) Got the email from Anderson, gun is on the way back, should have it in my hands next week. No FFL Edited October 4, 2018 by Albroswift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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