Reload Trouble

[SpairParts]

Well damn.

I have a friend reloading me some 308  plinking ammo. Hornaday 150gr fmj,once fired brass and cci large rifle primers. Not sure on powder load but i do trust he going with the load data.

Looks like the round is sticking in the chamber almost and twisting in the bolt a little either loading, ejecting or both. Sorry for pic quality but best i could get! Put some glasses on if ya need to.

Looking at the back of the case pics you can see where it is turning and there is actually a nice burr.

Any thoughts ideas?

 

[98Z5V]

Looks like ejector issues.  See how that ejector looks like it's almost squared off on top?  It needs to have a slight radius all the way around it, or it's gonna catch every single round trying to feed from the right side of the magazine.

[jtallen83]

Ejector swipe, not real unusual. Might be a tad hot but could also just need some weight in the buffer or a stiffer spring to slow things down a bit. Could ease the edges of the ejector a bit. I've got one that shows the same crater effect around the primer strike but it has more to do with an oversize firing pin hole in the bolt than pressure. Hard to totally do away with all the marks and still have good reliability, at least I'd rather be a touch on the over-gassed side of the equation.

[SpairParts]

I do have Buffer and gas tube issues but the gun cycles every round good so i kinda hate to mess with it? Guess its time to start a thread on that subject.

I will try to round the ejector off as mentioned.

Thanks Guys!

BTW Factory ammo is fine.

Edited December 17, 2018 by SpairParts

[Sisco]

Two things: Is he using small base dies, and what is his brass source, you? If the answer to both is no that could be an issue.

[Cliff R]

I've also seen folks have issues with cases sticking in the chamber from not having the reloading dies adjusted correctly.

Likely he's setting them up to crimp the bullet or should be for these applications.  You have to make sure that the crimp operation doesn't happen too early.  If it does the additional downward force will "push" the case down slightly and put enough of a bulge in it for them to stick in the chambers.  The "bulge" can be so slight you can't see it easily but rest assured they will stick in the chambers if this is happening.

I've seen this issue several times over the years with home reloaded ammunition so avoid it and only shoot my own reloads........Cliff

[98Z5V]

On 12/16/2018 at 5:15 PM, SpairParts said:

 

 

From the view if the back of the cartridge, right like this.

When the BCG closes (with bolt in the barrel extension), it's turning the BCG counterclockwise (rotation from the rear of the gun, in the "round's perspective").  That sharp edged ejector is causing that "smear" you see in the brass, to the left (or, counterclockwise) from the big round piece of displaced brass.

When the BCG opens, it's turning the bolt clockwise - and that ejector is digging in on it's own indentation right there, and displacing that "hump" or sharp piece of brass, in a "moon" or semi-circle, to the left side of that ejector indentation. 

Now, the ejector indentation is from a hot round - or something bad in your gas timing.  The BCG is already trying to moved rearward, but that piece of brass is still locked in the chamber. 

That sharp-edged ejector is WHAT is happening, but it's not necessarily WHY it's happening.  That make sense?

EDIT - if you radius the edges of that ejector, you're still gonna have some ejector smears on that particular load - but it's not gonna chew up the rim faces like that. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by 98Z5V

[SpairParts]

Probably a little over gassed and a short gas tube, And yes your explanation is easy to understand.

The load is

IMR-3031 powder using 42.2 grains

[98Z5V]

That's not the same primer previously mentioned, and the powder wasn't mentioned in the first post.  That's my 45-70 powder, right there. I'm just sayin'...

[bubbas4570]

And believe it or not, primer changes can make a HUGE difference.

 

Also, I am not a real fan of 3031, in either 308 or 45/70. It seemed to reach over pressure signs with me and give a sharper felt recoil impulse many years ago. Your results may be different, but not from  tthe pics....

My 308 powder choice leans towards Varget, 4064 (very close cousins in the powder world), 748, or 760.....all depends on what I am trying to do. TAC may be another to try, but it likes my .223/5.56 cases more.

[bubbas4570]

And for 98's info, I use H4198 in my 45/70 loads. ?

Edited December 18, 2018 by bubbas4570

[Cliff R]

+2

Never been overly fond of 3031 dating clear back to the mid 1970's when I first started reloading.  Going from memory it has very long grains and "crunchy" thru my powder measure.   Difficult to tell by the pics but it appears that pressure may be a bit high looking at the primers.  In any case have you tried any factory loads with the same bullet weight?

 

Off topic but I've been shooting 45/70's and reloading for them about 4 decades now.  My "go-to" powder for that round is Reloader 7........Cliff

Edited December 18, 2018 by Cliff R

[bubbas4570]

Cliff R, seems like we are much alike with our choices in 45/70 powders.....they are very similar.?

[SpairParts]

He is loading 2k rounds for me and have about 140 done already.

Think im going to tell him to wait till i get my gas tube and buffer fixed so we can figure out what is really going on.

[survivalshop]

 The photo's of the Fired case show some Primer cratering , but no flattening of the Primer , not normal sign with over pressure , more likely a slightly over sized Firing Pin Hole , as was already mentioned . Some more Lubricant may help the BCG function & as mentioned , very slight radius on the Ejector may help with marking or it may not total free movement in its pocket , a complete Bolt disassembly & inspection /lubrication may help . Marks on fired Brass is normal  , some loads do make more marks then others .

Fired Case also doesn't show signs of a rough Chamber that could be holding the case in the chamber too long , i would say , check Cartridge Case Head Space , Case Shoulder set bace , which has already been mentioned also.

The Powder is also not one of my favorite , it is an early load for 172 gr. match ammo used in the M14 , but they have went to IMR 4895 & 168 gr Bullets now . I tried 3031 in my SOCOM & it was a stout round ( feeling ) compared to Ramshot ,Tac , loaded to the same Velocity range  , but it did give about the same  , ES & SD of the Tac. 

What length Gas system do you have ?  

I really don't see an issue , except for the possibility of a slightly over sized Firing Pin hole , which only way to change that would be a different Bolt .

 

This should also moved to the Reloading section , might get more responses. 

Edited December 19, 2018 by survivalshop

[Cliff R]

Agreed about posting in the reloading section.

Might want to just have your friend back the load off to the minimum and test a few of those rounds.  I also noticed the firing pin cratering, which bothers me with this sort of thing.

Also notice the very sharp rise in pressure from 40.2gr to 43.5 it goes from 44,000 to 59,200.  It's always best to start at the minimum and sneak up on heavier loads than be on the upper end of the spectrum right out of the gate.....IMHO.

This provides the shooter a chance to check for signs of excessive pressure as you work up to the ideal load.  I'd also add that if this is just FMJ "plinking" rounds for sure you'll never notice the 200fps or so loss backing off the load just a tad......Cliff