Gibbz g10 308 build problems

[SacramentoGunGuy]

Franklin, I am having the exact same issue. I am so frustrated with my Gibbz 308 build. I spent a lot of time and money on it and it isn't functioning properly. I have spoken to Gibbz and they recommend that I ship them the rifle for inspection. Hearing that they took your upper for several months and then returned it to you in the same condition makes my heart sink. 

My saga so far: I put together the build in early June. Gibbz G10 upper with ballistic advantage barrel and ballistic advantage bcg. Gibbz G10 lower with CMMG LPK, Geissele ssa e trigger, Luth AR stock. 

On first range trip out rifle wouldn't cycle properly. It will barely poop out the empty brass, but fail to load another round. Bang, click. Won't hold open on an empty mag either. Also sometimes when cycling a round, either manually or when firing, a round will just fail to feed, getting hung up on the barrel extension. Tried several range trips, lots of lube, ammo types. All the same. 

At first I blamed the gas system. So I had a new gas block and tube installed and put in a JP recoilless buffer. Still acting exactly the same. So clearly it isn't the gas system.

It seems like there is just something off with the geometry that causes the bcg to slow down and cause feeding problems. I noticed some unusual marring on the bcg that leads me to think the bcg is riding on the side charging handle, causing it to lose velocity and not donits job. 

But what do I know. Im not a gunsmith. Maybe their upper receivers are just out of spec. I believe someone did say they used a Gibbz G10 lower with a different upper, correct? 

I am already afraid that Gibbz won't be able to fix the problem and when I do get the rifle back in several months it still won't work, and I'll end up having to tear the thing apart and buy a different receiver set and rebuild it. Ugggggh.

Please keep us posted Franklin. I am very eager to hear what Gibbz does on the second go round. I so wish I had just bought a freaking M1A at this point. 

 

[SacramentoGunGuy]

On 1/18/2020 at 4:44 PM, 98Z5V said:

This is the FOURTH confirmed problem we've seen with the Gibbz platform here.  This is #4.

Here is the Gibbz history here.  There have been no resolutions or fixes found, as far as I know.

https://forum.308ar.com/search/?q=Gibbz

Hey 98Z5V,

 

I followed this link and didn't see any other threads about Gibbz G10 issues. Did some searching of my own and o ly found this one. Can you help link me to the other threads on this topic? Id really like to read them because I'm having the same issue. 

[98Z5V]

1 hour ago, SacramentoGunGuy said:

Hey 98Z5V,

 

I followed this link and didn't see any other threads about Gibbz G10 issues. Did some searching of my own and o ly found this one. Can you help link me to the other threads on this topic? Id really like to read them because I'm having the same issue. 

You, now, are Number 5, here.  If I've identified 4 previous, here, then it should be pretty obvious on the search terms.  The link in my last post was a clue.  That got by you, somehow.  At any rate, here is the search history of that platform, here on this board.  Happy reading.

https://forum.308ar.com/search/?q=Gibbz

Sorry about your luck, too - wish you'd researched it before you bought it.  At this point, we can only start another tech thread, try to figure out what's fucked up -and try to fix it for you.  From the previous threads - I don't think we identified the real issue. 

It's not a good design, I think is what we came up with.  researching those previous threads I linked - that's a starting point. 

Sucks to be so glum about it - but that platform never performed - and I haven't seen anyone else come back in here - with proof - to show that it worked.  You might be that guy, though... 

[98Z5V]

Hope that link helps...  

[SacramentoGunGuy]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:33 PM, 98Z5V said:

Hope that link helps...  

Hey 98z5v, I have an update and also a question. 

 

So I sent the rifle to Gibbz. They drilled out the gas port, said it was running fine, and sent it back. When I went to fire it, the short stroking problem was resolved, but now I have a new problem. Well, I had experienced this problem intermittently before, but I attributed it to the short stroking. 

The problem is a jam that I will try to explain. The round starts to go into battery, but is being presented at too steep of an angle so the bullet wedges against the chamber wall. Once the forward motion of the round is halted, and the round is at an awkward angle, the back of the case is pushed downward by the bolt as it travels forward until the bolt is riding on top of the case. The bolt then impacts the case a little below the shoulder. Ill post a pic that shows the end result. 

I can reproduce this jam when cycling by hand, so it isnt the gas system or the buffer. It seems to me the geometry of the feeding is off and after some research I think I figured out why. 

The barrel extension has M4 feed ramps that aren't blended into the upper receiver. Not only that, but when you look at the correct angle, you can see a ledge of aluminum where the bullet is supposed to meet the feed ramp. Seems to me, if this were smoothed out and blended, the feeding issue would likely resolve. Ill post a pic of the feed ramp too. 

What do you think? 

[SacramentoGunGuy]

here's another pic showing the feed ramps straight on 

[shooterrex]

Do you still have the JP buffer system in the gun? If so go back to the rifle buffer and spring you first used. What you are seeing could be caused by the bolt traveli g to fast. The original rifle buffer and spring will slow that down and give the magazine time to raise the round all the way.

[SacramentoGunGuy]

Thanks for weighing in! I dont mean to be dismissive, but given that I can duplicate the jam by working the bolt by hand slowly, I don't think its a matter of the bolt traveling too fast.

 

I'm thinking either I need to cut some feed ramps into the upper receiver, or one of the receivers is just out of spec and the rounds are presenting too low. 

[Radioactive]

I’d hit the receiver with a file or dremel and get a smooth transition to the barrel extension feed ramps and try it again. Original design didn’t have ramps but I don’t like not having smooth look. When you cycle by hand are you getting the bolt all the way back? If you release from bolt catch does it work? Is the bolt catching enough of the base to strip the round? Is the mag full? Try it with just a couple rounds. Try a diff mag.

[Radioactive]

That gun looks dry - not enough lube

[shooterrex]

9 hours ago, SacramentoGunGuy said:

Thanks for weighing in! I dont mean to be dismissive, but given that I can duplicate the jam by working the bolt by hand slowly, I don't think its a matter of the bolt traveling too fast.

 

I'm thinking either I need to cut some feed ramps into the upper receiver, or one of the receivers is just out of spec and the rounds are presenting too low. 

These systems are not designed to be worked by hand slowly.

If you do a search here. You will see that almost everyone that has some type of fancy buffer/spring has feeding and cycling problems till they take those parts out and replace them with tried and true setups.

The dremmil bits for sharpening chainsaws work well for extending the feed ramps on the upper.

[98Z5V]

19 hours ago, SacramentoGunGuy said:

here's another pic showing the feed ramps straight on 

Dremel with the Chainsaw Sharpening Bit will knock that aluminum out of the receiver real quick.  It'll match/blend that upper to the feed ramps very well.  Don't worry about the steel feed ramps so much - the aluminum from the receiver will go, long before you hurt those steel feed ramps. 

ALSO...  That's the right round, out of a double-stack mag that's jammed, in these pics - is it always a right-side round that jams?...  Take a pic of your ejector and post it up.  Need to see what that ejector looks like in the bolt face...  

Edited September 15, 2020 by 98Z5V

[mrmackc]

49 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Dremel with the Chainsaw Sharpening Bit will knock that aluminum out of the receiver real quick.  It'll match/blend that upper to the feed ramps very well.  Don't worry about the steel feed ramps so much - the aluminum from the receiver will go, long before you hurt those steel feed ramps. 

ALSO...  That's the right round, out of a double-stack mag that's jammed, in these pics - is it always a right-side round that jams?...  Take a pic of your ejector and post it up.  Need to see what that ejector looks like in the bolt face...  

98Z5V would that be the 5/32" or the 3/16"? that seems to work best?   I have both sizes.

[98Z5V]

Just now, mrmackc said:

98Z5V would that be the 5/32" or the 3/16"? that seems to work best?   I have both sizes.

They'll both work, Mack.  5/32" is easier to use to blend, because it's smaller, but they both work well. 

[mrmackc]

Okay, Thanks.

[Mace069]

So...how about an update? Did the blending fix the issue? I'm in the R&D phase of my 1st AR10 build and I'm planning on using a Gibbz10 upper so, I'm very curious how yours is running now.

[SacramentoGunGuy]

1 hour ago, Mace069 said:

So...how about an update? Did the blending fix the issue? I'm in the R&D phase of my 1st AR10 build and I'm planning on using a Gibbz10 upper so, I'm very curious how yours is running now.

Mace, just don't do it. Pick a manufacturer that has some reputation behind it and more experience in the AR 10 space. I cannot begin to describe how much I regret buying a Gibbz 308 receiver set. 

When I got it back from Gibbz, they fixed the short stroking by boring out the gas port. Now it will eject properly but still has regular feeding issues. Essentially the bolt lug doesn't catch the case head of the next round and instead the bolt drags on the surface of the case and causes the round to feed awkwardly and jam up the bolt, squishing and usually ruining the round in the process. Other people have the exact same issue. I emailed Gibbz and asked what I should do from here and radio silence. They are done helping me with this. 

I haven't tried having a gunsmith extend the feed ramps into the upper receiver because I've learned that shouldn't be necessary. On close inspection with the rifle closed and the bolt open you can see the rounds ride high enough that there is no way they are hitting the receiver. If you have M4 cuts in your upper but not the barrel extension is where you run into problems, and its a very specific type of stoppage that is different to what I'm experiencing. 

Plus, if I go cutting into the upper receiver, Gibbz will have a reason not to refund my money when I send this receiver set (or "useless overpriced pile of poop" as I affectionately refer to my $2,000 .308 build) back to them. 

And really even if cutting feed ramps into the upper did magically and inexplicably fix the problem, I'd still say Gibbz is poop. Why sell expensive billet upper receivers that won't run without cutting into them? For what they charge and the way they describe their stuff as being so high end, an oversight like that would still be unforgivable. 

I've tried everything and it still does the thing. I've tried different mags, I've tried different combinations of buffer and spring, I tried stretching out the mag springs, I tried lubing the crap out of the BCG, I tried just working through a few hundred rounds to break it in, I tried shooting pushing up on the mag, I tried shooting pulling down on the mag.....

It still does the thing. 

I have come to the conclusion that it must be the receiver set is out of spec. It is the only variable in the parts equation that has an "unknown" when it comes to reliability and compatibility. I'm certain if I put my BA barrel and BCG and JP recoilless buffer system in an Aero M5 receiver set, the God damned thing would do its job. I plan to do just that, but I can't justify pouring another few hundred dollars into this absolutely maddening money pit of a project until after Xmas. After that I will get an M5 receiver set and literally rebuild the entire rifle. I will send the Gibbz set back to them along with a demand for my money back, which I am 100% I won't get. 

Don't be me. Be smarter than me, and go with a receiver set that has a good reputation. Gibbz 308 receivers are no good. 

[Armed Eye Doc]

@Mace069 Listen to the voice of experience and learn from him and the others who have only reported problems.  Find another manufacturer.

[billymagg]

1 hour ago, Armed Eye Doc said:

@Mace069 Listen to the voice of experience and learn from him and the others who have only reported problems.  Find another manufacturer.

Amen! and Amen! "DON'T TOUCH IT" a voice from the past, the first thing I remember watching on Television, talking about blasting caps that kids might find laying around in the 50's?... but if these Gents can't help their good buds make a Gibbz run?? Don't buy yourself a headache, there are much better billet sets to spend your money on, really amazing billet sets...

Dad gummit, the 50's and 60's sure where fun!

Edited November 6, 2020 by billymagg
further observation

[Mace069]

7 hours ago, billymagg said:

...there are much better billet sets to spend your money on, really amazing billet sets...

Billymagg, do you have one in mind?

Edited November 6, 2020 by Mace069

[edgecrusher]

8 hours ago, Mace069 said:

Billymagg, do you have one in mind?

He will suggest the Wilson but there are many nice options out there. Your price range will definitely dictate that list. Aero seems to be the best bang for the buck set with no issues. I have a Mega set that is very well done with a lot of nice features. A big problem you may run into is availability 

[billymagg]

On 11/6/2020 at 12:29 PM, edgecrusher said:

He will suggest the Wilson but there are many nice options out there. Your price range will definitely dictate that list. Aero seems to be the best bang for the buck set with no issues. I have a Mega set that is very well done with a lot of nice features. A big problem you may run into is availability 

Wilson is of course my favorite, because they have not only the billet receivers, but barrels, bcgs, and that work well with their receiver sets, they also offer a light weight billet in addition to the regular cut, and of course they are gorgeous. The Wilson billet upper and lower were priced at $439 with the armor coating, but they have recently gone up a little. I like Mega, Cross Machine and Tool, Grey Ghost Precison, Rainier, and I could go on, the Aero Precision is a very nice, and widely used receiver set with lots of support, that functions very well, and is as edgecrusher stated a "very good bang for the buck, and our member's highly recommend them!

Even Billet sets with Flags, crazy camo, and a skull machined into the exterior surface of the magwell.

Gibz isn't the only one with issues either, maybe Edge can list some to avoid, or 98, he's a wealth of information, cause He's tried em all!!

[ARMatey]

Anyone have input on quality or concerns with the New Frontier C10 side-charging upper? Says it was made in partnership with Gibbz which obviously raises some alarm from these  prior posts of issues. Not sure if this is the exact same product so wanting to know if anyone has used the New Frontier side-charge upper and what your experience has been. 

[98Z5V]

This is a first-heard, here.  Gonna be interesting.

[MNRangeGuy]

On 9/14/2020 at 1:33 AM, SacramentoGunGuy said:

Hey 98z5v, I have an update and also a question. 

 

So I sent the rifle to Gibbz. They drilled out the gas port, said it was running fine, and sent it back. When I went to fire it, the short stroking problem was resolved, but now I have a new problem. Well, I had experienced this problem intermittently before, but I attributed it to the short stroking. 

The problem is a jam that I will try to explain. The round starts to go into battery, but is being presented at too steep of an angle so the bullet wedges against the chamber wall. Once the forward motion of the round is halted, and the round is at an awkward angle, the back of the case is pushed downward by the bolt as it travels forward until the bolt is riding on top of the case. The bolt then impacts the case a little below the shoulder. Ill post a pic that shows the end result. 

I can reproduce this jam when cycling by hand, so it isnt the gas system or the buffer. It seems to me the geometry of the feeding is off and after some research I think I figured out why. 

The barrel extension has M4 feed ramps that aren't blended into the upper receiver. Not only that, but when you look at the correct angle, you can see a ledge of aluminum where the bullet is supposed to meet the feed ramp. Seems to me, if this were smoothed out and blended, the feeding issue would likely resolve. Ill post a pic of the feed ramp too. 

What do you think? 

Looks like I'm pretty late to the party here but in your second picture of the jam it appears that the bolt carrier, not the face of the bolt, has stripped the round from the magazine. You may still have a gas issue or something is preventing your bolt from traveling fully to the rear. I have experienced this with a build of my own (coincidentally also a Gibbs receiver- AR15 side charger and also using a JP silent capture spring system.... Additional specs: 20" Lothar Walther barrel with match bolt, Noveski nickel boron BGC, Geissle SSA trigger, Tactical innovations Lower, PMAG30 magaizines). Opening the gas port slightly larger than spec. for the cartridge (.223 wylde) and installing an adjustable gas block resolved my issues and also allowed me to be able to tune my cycling for different loads while being able to adjust for any overgassing issues. It now runs as well as any of my factory rifles. The action is smooth and I have had no cycling issues with any factory loaded ammo since the modification. It should be mentioned that I only run quality name brand ammo through the rifle and have a mild affinity for Hornady varmint rounds for this one but it really likes 40gr Noslers in my hand loads.

 

The point is, if Gibbs inspected the rifle and the only thing they found is that they were able to resolve the cycling issue by enlarging the gas port in the barrel then I'm sure they adjusted it only far enough to cycle reliably with the ammunition they were testing with. I'm sure they would have told you if you assembled something improperly or were using incompatible components. They have no reason not to tell you that you twisted the action during installation of the barrel nut or that the BCG is causing your issue, etc. You may want to research gassing solutions or find a smith with experience resolvong the issue before assuming that Gibbs has built an inferior product. My experience is that I really like my Gibbs receiver once I figured out what my issue was and it has become one of my favorite rifles.