mchljrdn Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Hello and thanks for taking time to read. I had been shopping for a new bolt gun in 7mm-08 when I remembered I have a set of DPMS patterned uppers - https://www.livefreearmory.com/receiver-sets.php - I won them in a drawing awhile back. I was toying with trying to put together a 7mm-08 AR 10 and wanted to know if I"m chasing a bad idea. I've built a few AR15s. I wanted the rifle to come in around 7lbs (if it's feasible). I wanted to make sure I have a good barrel and trigger (McGowen & Timney maybe). I'd like to stay under 1500 and am hard capped at 2k. I would greatly appreciate any assistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 I believe Wilson makes 7mm08 barrels. Lot of good triggers out there. I like the LaRue MBT-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 ^^^^What he says! Can’t beat the Wilson Combat barrels or the LaRue MBT trigger. It will be difficult to come in at 7 pounds without going all out on parts, lots of titanium and carbon fiber would be required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchljrdn Posted February 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: ^^^^What he says! Can’t beat the Wilson Combat barrels or the LaRue MBT trigger. It will be difficult to come in at 7 pounds without going all out on parts, lots of titanium and carbon fiber would be required. I assume the barrel is the heaviest item? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willbird Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, mchljrdn said: I assume the barrel is the heaviest item? It all adds up but a pencil profile barrel IMHO removes about the most weight for the lowest cost. Example faxon 308 16" Pencil is 28.48 ounces Wilson Ranger 16 Recon Tactical 7mm-08 is 37.8 oz. 8.6oz difference. Heavier profile has advantages though :-), life is about balance :-). Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchljrdn Posted February 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Really looks like I should give in and go 6.5 creedmore doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, mchljrdn said: Really looks like I should give in and go 6.5 creedmore doesn't it? What are you gonna find in 6.5 Creedmooor that blow away what the guys above have given you about the 7mm-08?... You've been given some very solid recommendations. Wilson Combat for the 7mm-08 barrel, LaRue MBT-2S trigger. Tell me what led you to the 7mm-08 in the first place, man. Then tell me what made you make that last post, and doubt your original decision, and want to jump to 6.5C... Edited February 21, 2020 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchljrdn Posted February 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: What are you gonna find in 6.5 Creedmooor that blow away what the guys above have given you about the 7mm-08?... You've been given some very solid recommendations. Wilson Combat for the 7mm-08 barrel, LaRue MBT-2S trigger. Tell me what led you to the 7mm-08 in the first place, man. Then tell me what made you make that last post, and doubt your original decision, and want to jump to 6.5C... I love 7mm-08 and feel it's a great cartridge for anything up to elk. The main snag I'm having is find an 18-20" barrel that's not too heavy. When I look at 260, 6.5cm, or 308 it appears there are a lot of options in regards to barrel - carbon fiber and otherwise. The recommendations were great! If I could figure out how to get a 7mm-08 CF or otherwise that were around 3lbs I'd jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, mchljrdn said: I love 7mm-08 and feel it's a great cartridge for anything up to elk. The main snag I'm having is find an 18-20" barrel that's not too heavy. When I look at 260, 6.5cm, or 308 it appears there are a lot of options in regards to barrel - carbon fiber and otherwise. The recommendations were great! If I could figure out how to get a 7mm-08 CF or otherwise that were around 3lbs I'd jump. Why are you hung onthe 18"~20" barrel for this gun, man? Velocity? Expansion rates of the hunting projectiles that you'll be using? Long Distance kill shots that you'll be making? What are you going to hunt with this gun, and what's the max distance that you hunt that animal at? These might seems like mundane questions, or just dumb questions, but trust me here... A 7lb Large Frame AR is gonna cost you MAJOR BUCKS, by the way, unless you're talking completely unloaded, and NO optic... Edited February 21, 2020 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchljrdn Posted February 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) I plan to use it as back up or primary on any game up to and including elk. I wouldn't take a shot farther than 300 yards on large game like elk with a 7mm-08 bolt gun. I do like the velocity - and also I've put a number of rounds down range in 20-22" barrels so I have a level of comfort there. 7lbs is unloaded w/o optics. I''m aiming somewhere around 8.5. I just don't want to tote a 10lb gun around on long days - nor do I want the 6lb shoulder hammer at the other end. I generally use 140 grain accubonds/partitions up to around 160 grain a frames or onyx. Edited February 21, 2020 by mchljrdn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, mchljrdn said: I plan to use it as back up or primary on any game up to and including elk. I wouldn't take a shot farther than 300 yards on large game like elk with a 7mm-08 bolt gun. I do like the velocity - and also I've put a number of rounds down range in 20-22" barrels so I have a level of comfort there. 7lbs is unloaded w/o optics. I''m aiming somewhere around 8.5. I just don't want to tote a 10lb gun around on long days - nor do I want the 6lb shoulder hammer at the other end. I generally use 140 grain accubonds/partitions up to around 160 grain a frames or onyx. I'm answering in colors... My M4A1 in Afghanistan was north of 10lbs - for an M4 Carbine... A 16" 7mm-08 barrel will do 300 yards with ease, and do 850 yards with ease- it's in the projectile. I can run a 16" .308 Win AR to 850 yards - with ease, and the 7mm-08 is much more "ballistically efficient" than .308 Win. My .260 Rem is a joke at 850 yards - same parent cartridge as 7mm-08 - .308 Win - and much less drop than .308 Win. The 7mm-08 will perform very similar, to the .260 Rem, more than the .308 Win. The .260 Rem is a 20" barrel, though - shortest I could find, when I built it, or I would have built it with an 18" barrel. Only reason I would have gone 18" is for distance, and I shoot these to 850 yards and longer. For a deer-killing machine, you can make a 16" 5.56 gun, if you load up some Barnes 70gr TSX projectiles for it. They can do twice that distance. For a 7mm-08, if you're looking at 300 yards as your max distance, that thing is gonna be a laser. Doesn't matter the barrel length, for legal barrel length of 16" and longer. Wouldn't matter. SO, if you're hunting it - why lug around a long barrel? Drop gun weight, drop swing weight, shoot a shorter barrel - that's the fastest way to drop gun weight, and (more importantly) swing weight. Don't be scared of the Wilson Combat barrels, because they're 16" barrels - Wilson Combat did that for a reason - Hunting, and ARs. They know what works, and why. If you're hunting 300 yards, you can do that with a 5.56 gun and 70TSX. The 7mm-08 in 16" will suit you fine. Look at the ballistics, see for yourself. .308 Win has 6 total cartridges built from it (including .308 Win). It's the parent cartridge for 5 others. .308 Win, .338 Federal, .358 Win, .260 Rem, .243 Win, and 7mm-08. I have a 16" 308 Win AR (and many others), a 16" .338 Fed AR, a 20" .260 Rem AR, and a new .243 Win bolt gun sitting at my Gun Pusher's place right now, waiting for me to pick it up. I'm two calibers away from completing the ".308 Win Family," and those two will be 16" ARs - a 7mm-08 AR in 16", and a .358 Win AR in 16". With that kind of round, expected hunting conditions, and gun weight... Why go longer on the barrel? It doesn't need to be longer, to accomplish what it needs to accomplish. I'm not going to hunt mountain goats at 1,100 yards with them... If I need to do that, I'll just take that .260 Rem AR, or the .300 Win Mag bolt gun. Different guns for different reasons - think about what your goals and reasons really are. Edited February 21, 2020 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Hunting Elk and smaller game to 300 yards plus wanting a light weight package is tough with these platforms. I started out with 308-AR's years before I found this site and just ordered up a complete 18" upper with a nearly full length free-float rail. The barrel was pretty heavy profile. After jumping thru some hoops with parts compatibility I picked up my pride and joy and my heart sank. This thing was HEAVY, and awkward. Not what I was planning on dragging around at 10,000-12,000' out in Colorado in October and since I hunt public land you've got to hike in at least a mile from the nearest trail or access road before you are going to start seeing any Bulls. PSA threw a 14.7" upper on their website with a welded flash hider in a lighter profile so I grabbed it up. Much happier with the end result and it tops the scale at exactly 10 pounds and that's with the A2 stock filled with a cleaning kit and some survival stuff. Even though I only trimmed a little over 3" from the barrel length it "feels" 1/3rd lighter than the longer/awkward rifle. I see no loss of accuracy at all and can't even tell any more bullet drop out to 300 yards at the range we built on my brothers farm. Something to note here is that with any given barrel profile a larger caliber has a bigger hole bored thru it so it shaves some weight. Shorter barrels also reduce muzzle weight and make the rifle "feel" lighter and more nimble in your hands in a hunting scenario. I'd also mention at 300 yards or less the smaller calibers really offer little in terminal performance over the 308 round. They all shoot pretty darned flat in that range and you're not going to miss an Elk simply because you have your holdover figured out...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 @98Z5V This is the 243? BTW best wishes for the OP. What would it cost to cut down a barrel and have it crowned? On 2/15/2020 at 12:38 AM, RedRiverII said: 80 gr. 243 sailed on through. Maybe why I have a .243 Win bolt gun on the way right now - GunPusher found it for me, after I pestered the shiit out of him for it... It's just a .308 Win round necked down to 6mm. I'm in. After this one, I need to build 2 more, and they'll be ARs. There are 6 cartridges made from .308 Winchester. I'll own them all. .308 Win, .338 Fed, .260 Rem. I have those. .243 Win is on the way. I'll need 7mm-08 and .358 Win, to complete the whole family. Wilson Combat makes both those barrels for ARs, so that's what I'll go with. This will happen. I will complete the .308 Win Family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted February 21, 2020 Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 Not suggesting the 243 for elk in the above post, I just like that rifle. 243 is good for show off, pretentious, egotistic elk that will pose for you at 100 yds. You'll still need the most sturdy of bullets for the kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchljrdn Posted February 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2020 I think I'll just focus on the main part of the AR and give myself a few days to think the barrel/caliber through. .308s would absolutely handle the hunting - I am just trying to reduce recoil where I am. Old shoulder injury has me selling a few rifles. The only item I actually own is a set of matching receivers from Live Free Armory. I'm trying to make a list of components to consider. Lower Receiver Kit https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-enhanced-lower-parts-kit Handguards https://brigandarms.com/product/carbon-black-edge-handguard/ https://www.rainierarms.com/lancer-systems-308-7-62-lch7-lightweight-m-lok-carbon-fiber-handguard-xl-no-rails-12/ https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/magnesium-hyper-light-m-lok-handguard-308/ Butt Stock battlelink minimalist Buffer kit https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-carbine-buffer-kit BCG https://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPBC-4 BCG Upper Kit Gas System Trigger Barrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edgecrusher Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, mchljrdn said: I think I'll just focus on the main part of the AR and give myself a few days to think the barrel/caliber through. .308s would absolutely handle the hunting - I am just trying to reduce recoil where I am. Old shoulder injury has me selling a few rifles. The only item I actually own is a set of matching receivers from Live Free Armory. I'm trying to make a list of components to consider. Lower Receiver Kit https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-enhanced-lower-parts-kit Handguards https://brigandarms.com/product/carbon-black-edge-handguard/ https://www.rainierarms.com/lancer-systems-308-7-62-lch7-lightweight-m-lok-carbon-fiber-handguard-xl-no-rails-12/ https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/magnesium-hyper-light-m-lok-handguard-308/ Butt Stock battlelink minimalist Buffer kit https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/m5-308-carbine-buffer-kit BCG https://jprifles.com/buy.php?item=JPBC-4 BCG Upper Kit Gas System Trigger Barrel For the buffer kit check out an Armalite complete assembly, set it and forget it. Gas system depends on your barrel. Lots of good triggers out there but save the money for other things and get the LaRue. Also save a few bucks and grab a Toolcraft bcg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff R Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 Recoil is certainly a consideration for target and bench rest stuff but for big game hunting rifles not so much. When you are putting rounds on a big bull Elk moving fast thru thick timber you woln't even remember how hard the gun hit you. Your adrenalin will be pumping and you'll be using all the skills you have to put him down before he disappears over the mountain. For the last 3 decades I've hunting most big game with a 45/70 Marlin model 1895 pushing 300 grain Sierra bullets at 2400fps. On the bench you'll cry for your momma after touching one off and lucky the scope didn't lay you wide open and for sure your hat and glasses will be on the ground if you forgot to remove them! In the woods taking game I've never once even noticed the recoil. I recently retired the old Marlin and use my 308-AR instead. I love the platform, weatherproof, rugged, less bullet drop at longer ranges, and super-quick follow up shots. Very interested in how yours ends up for weight when finished. Hopefully it will come in under 10 pounds ready to hunt....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 14 hours ago, RedRiverII said: @98Z5V This is the 243? That's the one, brother - that's it. It's just sitiing there, waiting for me. He sent me a damn picture of the BOX, but not the gun!... He's probably got it hanging on the damn display rack, knowing him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchljrdn Posted February 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Cliff R said: Recoil is certainly a consideration for target and bench rest stuff but for big game hunting rifles not so much. When you are putting rounds on a big bull Elk moving fast thru thick timber you woln't even remember how hard the gun hit you. Your adrenalin will be pumping and you'll be using all the skills you have to put him down before he disappears over the mountain. For the last 3 decades I've hunting most big game with a 45/70 Marlin model 1895 pushing 300 grain Sierra bullets at 2400fps. On the bench you'll cry for your momma after touching one off and lucky the scope didn't lay you wide open and for sure your hat and glasses will be on the ground if you forgot to remove them! In the woods taking game I've never once even noticed the recoil. I recently retired the old Marlin and use my 308-AR instead. I love the platform, weatherproof, rugged, less bullet drop at longer ranges, and super-quick follow up shots. Very interested in how yours ends up for weight when finished. Hopefully it will come in under 10 pounds ready to hunt....... I love the 45-70. These days the only time I see 45-70's are with my Sharpes rifle. I agree recoil doesn't matter in the field but I like to practice. I have to say I'm tempted to just buy the 338 federal upper from Wilson. It's like 900 bucks right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 On this quaint wallet emptying site the only suggestion worth considering is, buy two. Oh no, I just viewed a Noreen 30-06 two mag dump on YouTube. the guys head looked like a chicken typing a post. Me likey. BAR stuff man!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 2 hours ago, mchljrdn said: I love the 45-70. These days the only time I see 45-70's are with my Sharpes rifle. I agree recoil doesn't matter in the field but I like to practice. I have to say I'm tempted to just buy the 338 federal upper from Wilson. It's like 900 bucks right now. My .338 Fed AR is on the Wilson Combat 16" barrel. It's tack-driver, and - as weird as this sounds - softer shooting than the 16" .308 Win gun. They're built as twins, too, same gas system, same recoil system, same exact brake (I drilled up the same .308 Win brake to take the .338 projectile). Hard to explain. That .338 Fed shoots softer than the .308 Win does... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 17 hours ago, RedRiverII said: @98Z5V This is the 243? Here's what my Jackass Gun Pusher sends me, to let me know that the gun got there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 @98Z5V That's a tease right there, an appetizer, whiting your appetite, a shove in the direction of..., " wanna see more?". What is important here is "...the instruction book is enclosed." Unintended reference, "... forearm muscle may need to be enlarged in order to handle 26" barrel." Are 4 round magazines legal? Ask Mike, because Mike knows. Mikey Bloomers that is. The pantywaist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRiverII Posted February 22, 2020 Report Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) @mchljrdn I like to shop at bkingsfirearms.com. USMC Veteran owned small business. I've bought supplies at a reasonable price there. I don't now the folks well, but they have answered the phone when I called with a question. They will accept USPS money orders as well as the usual forms of payment. Who likes those nasty little paper trails the Mrs. finds? It's worth a shot to look bro. Best of Luck to you. Edited February 22, 2020 by RedRiverII spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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