Jump to content
308AR.com Community
  • Visit Aero Precision
  • Visit Brownells
  • Visit EuroOptic
  • Visit Site
  • Visit Beachin Tactical
  • Visit Rainier Arms
  • Visit Ballistic Advantage
  • Visit Palmetto State Armory
  • Visit Cabelas
  • Visit Sportsmans Guide

Firing pin and Trigger Deflection


DustBuster

Recommended Posts

So, it looks like I just finished my DPMS 308 build just before the commies try to the disarm lawful.  Such a shame.  As Charlton Heston once said,” You’ll have to pull this outta my cold Strong Hands?”  Maybe I got that quote wrong. Anyway, I am waiting on a rental of some NoGo-Gos, and I want to test the hammer out on a dummy round DryFire. I want to fill my empty primer void in the brass to help take some of the shock from the firing pin.  I will be taking the bolt apart for the goNogo tests, but I may not be able to see what I’m curious about.

Does the firing pin on each shot, slam into its stop, cushioned sligjtly by the hardness of the primer?  

Also, how much wiggle is there in the pin?

Right now, when my lower is separated, the hammer puts pressure on the bolt catch.  When I close the upper on to it, the pressure is gone so I Hope my hammer doesn’t compress the firing pin further from where it is in closed position, putting a blow onto the bolt catch.  

When I practice hammer fall on my thumb, when the lower is open, my trigger squeeze distance is only about an 1/8” tops. Is this typical or is something not positioned perfectly?

Any knowledge will be greatly appreciated and I will reward each and everyone of you with a picture of my work of art ( which has been benefited by this groups Help immensely) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, DustBuster said:

 I want to test the hammer out on a dummy round DryFire. I want to fill my empty primer void in the brass to help take some of the shock from the firing pin.

Does the firing pin on each shot, slam into its stop, cushioned sligjtly by the hardness of the primer?  

 

You're over-thinking this.  If it's worrying you that much, just buy a Snap-Cap training round. 

Do you have any fired brass from this gun? If not, then other fired brass might not work perfectly. Or, do you have a piece of unfired, formed brass from the reloading press? That'll work, for the most part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah I thought about snap caps but why buy one when I’ve got a sammi sized dummy round.... I might fill the primer pocket with something hardish.  So 98z5v, how much  do you think Millspec trigger pull on a cocked hammer should be, when squeezing it?  Only moving a whisker, or an 1/8, or more like 3/16 to a 1/4? Think back to when you used to have a crappy trigger!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, DustBuster said:

Yeah I thought about snap caps but why buy one when I’ve got a sammi sized dummy round.... I might fill the primer pocket with something hardish.  So 98z5v, how much  do you think Millspec trigger pull on a cocked hammer should be, when squeezing it?  Only moving a whisker, or an 1/8, or more like 3/16 to a 1/4? Think back to when you used to have a crappy trigger!

There's zero reason to do this, at all.  None.  You're worrying about something that a non-issue here.

Mil=spec shiitty triggers are 5.5~8.5lbs of trigger pull.  They suck so much, there's a huge variance.

Edited by 98Z5V
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I’ve read that dryfiring an LR is ok, but I kinda don’t want to just in case it slams some into my bolt stop...which I could file some to prevent...or file the hammer a tiny bit.. but I’m pretty that there is no problem there.

As far as the milspec trigger question, I was meaning how much horizontal pull distance is typical?  Before the pivot action of it is stopped by the rabbited Saftey slot.  ??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, DustBuster said:

Yeah, I’ve read that dryfiring an LR is ok, but I kinda don’t want to just in case it slams some into my bolt stop...which I could file some to prevent...or file the hammer a tiny bit.. but I’m pretty that there is no problem there.

As far as the milspec trigger question, I was meaning how much horizontal pull distance is typical?  Before the pivot action of it is stopped by the rabbited Saftey slot.  ??

Are you talking about dry-firing a lower receiver, without an upper receiver ON the lower receiver?!  Don't do that.  Put the upper on it, with a charging handle and a BCG IN the upper - and dry fire as much as you want!  With a BCG in there, your hammer will NEVER touch your bolt catch.

Also, DO NOT EVER file away on your hammer - you're only inviting problems into your gun.

You really, really are WAY over-thinking this.  You are Complicating Shiit with Complicated Shiit - that's all in your mind.  Just stop it, before someone slaps you back into reality.

I have absolutely zero idea of what you're talking about here. 

Edited by 98Z5V
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

He's referring to trigger slack, how much take-up travel is normal to reach the point where the trigger is actively disengaging the sear.

On a mil-spec trigger, it's about a mile.  It's gritty, it drags, the pull weight feels worse than a double-stage Berretta M9.

I want to know what a "rabbited safety slot" is...

Edited by 98Z5V
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I will stop this line of questioning... thanks for the input.

The front of my trigger slot might need to be enlarged a tiny bit. I feel that my trigger could be binding in the front even before it meets with the saftey slot, thus limiting the amount it can be squeezed.  It works fine, with the upper pivoted away, the follower catches and then when unqueezed, the sear seams good. Then hammer falls when squeezed a tiny amount.. but that is all that the trigger can move, a tiny amount, barely perceptible to the eye.  Someday when my Larue come in, I will see how that baby performs.  My FCP is plenty deep, more than 1.25...I will post a picture Tomorrow Morning of my sweet First Timer lead launcher.  Hard ass work making one of these critters and I gaurantee that No friggen criminal could or would have the talent or gumption to make it happen.  I’m proud of all of the crew at this forum and am lucky to learn hobby smith precision from elsewhere and here. DustBuster aka Dirtbag(wrestling nickname) I actually don’t like DustBuster, can the Webmaster let me change my name?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, DustBuster said:

I actually don’t like DustBuster, can the Webmaster let me change my name?

I'd have to make a lot of changes to give you permission to change your name at will.... but if you'll let me know what username you'd like within reason, I'd be more than happy to change it for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ll think about it today Matt, tnx for info...

So I weighed my new weopon, 9.6 LBS, as you can see.

Daytona Tactical UpperLower, Heavy Fluted 18” match series rifle gas barrel, Gun Tech handguard, Cheap Mentium-“USA” Sights and Adjustable Gas Block,  Cheap AR Stoner Sling, Magpul Str Stock,Lancer Magazine

I’m pretty happy about it.  My 30-06 next to it weighed 10.2 Lbs with that heavy bipod and scope.  

There are a few slight mistakes in the final product.  I think from factory the gas hole was drilled a tiny bit off center and it definitely doesn’t land inline with a Flute Groove or Rise.  Then when I installed the barrel, it might have been ever so slightly mid aligned from perfect feed ramp centers.  My trigger pin holes are nearly level, but maybe a teeny bit off level. The hammer pin holes are a Teeny More bit off level, so my eye can detect non-plumbness by maybe a degree or two.  And last but not least the trigger slot may be binding ever so slightly at front.  The Pretravelbof Trigger is actually about an 1/8 or 3/16” so I guess she’s about right.... just squeezed it this morning and it feels pretty good actually, but a Hard Poundage for sure... not much creep or slack before wall. I know I’m an idiot but today I am going to fill my Dummy rounds primer pocket with a sawed off piece of brass dowel for a dry fire cushion.  Ace will maybe have those.  About as crazy as someone who reloads primers....haha

21B82224-8C33-408F-8B9A-E11EB2D6C4E0.jpeg

FE8BA9F6-6752-4978-9EF2-DDD4544473A5.jpeg

0F9301C0-414A-4321-B60A-8C01AAB1227B.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s a darn good idea... I was thinking something like very hard but flexible plastic/rubber, but didn’t figure out what kind.  I was just at ace and I thought about brass rod but I betcha that’s too hard, so I bought aluminum rod.  Cut a chunk, glue it in, but only good for one use!  I think I’ll try harder rubber than eraser tip but maybe that is actually The perfect material, thanks for idea.  I might try aluminum first just to see how the dent looks.... when I fire the gun I’ll see more accurate evidence of the gas pressures and stuff, but this will be good just as a lab test.  I know the experts are scoffing at the trivial nature of my ideas...some day I’ll get serious and buy the proper equipment for gunsmithing, just not today...I will post a picture of my virgin aluminum primer punch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DustBuster said:

I know the experts are scoffing at the trivial nature of my ideas...

Not at all. There's no need to be insecure about anything, everyone has ideas and questions and they're all welcomed. The only thing that's considered taboo here is talking absolutes that aren't backed by actual facts/experience. Going that route never ends well. Apart from that, your commentary and ideas are welcome. We all came to this platform with some pre-conceived ideas, and we learned that in some instances we were correct, and not so much in others. All the same, the point is to learn as much as possible to help the next newcomers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"On a mil-spec trigger, it's about a mile.  It's gritty, it drags, the pull weight feels worse than a double-stage Berretta M9."

 

+2 or 3

 

Mil-Spec triggers have tons of creep for a reason, it's a weapon of War and it requires a pretty big safety margin so it doesn't go bang when it's not supposed to. 

The amount of sear engagement is more than generous, and quite a bit of it can be removed without reducing the margin of safety by a trained armorer.  Even so I don't recommend it as it's simply far easier to buy a much better drop in assembly instead.......IMHO.......

Edited by Cliff R
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not sure how I will eventually like a Two stage trigger, with one extra click that happens when squeezing the trigger.  I think the first click happens when the disconnecter disengages after pressure is let up on the trigger, and this click will not be noticed I’m guessing.  It’s the second click of a Two stage that might be weird.

Im gonna be hammering away tomorrow morning on 4 of the 5 cartridges seen in this picture.  The Live round on the Left I need to separate into a different secure location.  The four dry fire primers I am going to use in my Dummy loads are #2 Bic, and 3 Unknown grade of AL.  I probably will also leave the chamber empty on my Fifth DryFire test, and use my ears to detect any harsher sounds on the firing pin stop, or of sound of collision with my bolt stop. I should disassemble the dam bolt carrier to see for myself where this stop positions the firing pins movement.  I have not bathed my bolt carrier in lube and that thing could be stuck in the mid range of it’s travel from the factory....just waiting to allow the hammer to bash my bolt stop.  Once I know for sure that this won’t happen, I will feel much better with letting the hammer fall on a completely empty chamber.

Ill get a good feel of my take up/Wall/sear/and creep.  These are all pretty new to me.  I am not experienced enough to start filing away at my trigger!  I am skilled enough to superglue aluminum and eraser into some brass, however.

 

121F2595-110C-4FE5-80E8-1D0366421B4B.jpeg

Edited by DustBuster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, DustBuster said:

I’m not sure how I will eventually like a Two stage trigger, with one extra click that happens when squeezing the trigger.  I think the first click happens when the disconnecter disengages after pressure is let up on the trigger, and this click will not be noticed I’m guessing.  It’s the second click of a Two stage that might be weird.

 

There are no "clicks" in a 2-stage trigger - there's a wall of pressure that you feel when you pull the trigger.  2.5lbs first stage, 4.5lbs second stage - example.  It takes 2.5lbs of pressure to start the trigger movement, then it STOPS.  There's no "click."  From that point, you are at BANG, with more pressure, and it would take an additional 2lbs of pressure to set the hammer off.  2.5/4.5 trigger is the example. 

The only distinct "clicks" you're ever see in a multi-pull weight trigger would be from a Set Trigger.  A Set Trigger is not what AR 2-Stage triggers are.  Pretty big difference. 

In my VERY Humble Opinion, you just need to go shoot your gun, and stop worrying about all the nonsense that's corroding your brainpan. You're spending alot of time worrying about things that are imaginary, and asking questions about those imaginary things - that aren't grounded in reality one bit.  Again, my $0.02.  Shoot your gun.

Edited by 98Z5V
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^ Truth. The internet is both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in the sense that it gives you a vast quantity of information from which to derive useful conclusions, and a curse in the sense that it gives you a vast quantity of information from which to draw erroneous conclusions. There is no substitute for the data and experience that will come from putting the firing pin to a primer in your own build.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

In my VERY Humble Opinion, you just need to go shoot your gun, and stop worrying about all the nonsense that's corroding your brainpan

Ha ha ha.  Yes yes, I concur.  I’m like a little kid who can’t wait for Christmas morning.  But I forgot to put a cool little SnapCap on my list from Midway, with a nifty internal spring in it.  Like Matt said, the internet can be tricky.... I had just refreshed on a Two stage trigger from another web site and I interpreted it pretty wrong.  Yep.  I am super psyched that I put the extra 3/16” longer gas tube in my gun, however, so I’m profiting on another dumb rookies question that got answered by you!  So hopefully, some day, you will be able to breath a sigh of relief when I can help you to satisfy any other Virtual rifle shooters questions, like myself.. haha

Good evening Matt and 98..My very last post of this thread will be a picture of my primer dimples.... I hope those things are dimpled dead center... it’s always puzzled/bugged me when I see that they aren’t. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, DustBuster said:

I hope those things are dimpled dead center... it’s always puzzled/bugged me when I see that they aren’t. 

Oh that's an easy one to answer; clearance. You don't want your firing pin to hang up with fouling, so it's manufactured with plenty of clearance in the bolt face to keep it going bang when it's supposed to. That's why I'm not surprised or bothered by off-centered firing pin dimples in my primers. It hasn't the least effect on function or accuracy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah That makes total sense.  I just fired 6 pretend shots, and it all seems great.  I was expecting Whaaaam, steel hammer crashing into dummy primer, but it was a fairly quiet little “tick” Sounded the same for the eraser Primer.  I think I’ll save 10 bucks and maybe just carve a little harder rubber into one last dummy case.  After the gun is worn in good, I’m sure dry firing on empty chamber isn’t going to worry me in the least.  Pretty much the only thing to do now is shoot the thing. I pulled the bolt out and answered my own dang question of how much travel the firing pin has, looks to be about 3/32”-1/8” when I shut the receiver and the tension comes off bolt stop, it is in fully bottomed out position, so I have no worry about extra pounding on that.  Pretty cheap little part anyway.  Same with the firing pin.  Case Closed.  Maybe my name should be Captain OCD or Corroded BrainPan, Please no!

EBC4CCDD-6502-426A-AE9A-212E66A588E4.jpeg

Edited by DustBuster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DustBuster, you seem like you're on the path that you are going to REFUSE to learn lessons that people have been learning here for more than 10 years now.  You just REFUSE to listen to most of the information that's given to you - FREE, that you need to keep in mind.  FREE to you.  You just ignore it, and you argue it, or combat it - every response from you.

On that note, I'm done, with anything that you have to say here.  All of it. I'm not getting into it anymore. I wish you luck on your gun, and I wish you luck in the psychosis of "looking for problems" that don't even exist in the first place.

I wish you well.  Good luck on your gun. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...