Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) See, I have this little black cloud that follows me around.... And as my luck also tends to go, the vendor I bought THIS BCG from is now out of stock. I opened the package on and starting disassembling my brand new (brand) BCG this evening so I could do some headspace checks with the barrel for the upper I'm building - ie, by removing bolt from BCG, then disassembling bolt to get extractor and ejector out, and using a go and non-go gauge. When I got the firing pin out of the BCG, to my horror, there are at least 4 significant "digs" into the shaft around the final taper area, leading up to the final diameter that protrudes through to the bolt face. One that goes almost the whole way around where the taper starts. All of these digs catch my thumbnail and make a significant scratching type sound as my nail runs over them or catches on them. So I see the description of this forum area mentions non-brand-specific so perhaps not kosher to mention the brand names. I don't really fault the manufacturer for this, it was poorly packed in a much bigger box by where I bought it from, with a bunch of air pillows, which of course will do nothing to stop a heavy metal object like a BCG from flying around in the box.... Seems to be a lot of this going around lately, or, maybe it's just to me. I can't imagine what kind of hell this box must have went through on the way here, but I'm assuming this happened in transit, ie didn't leave manufacturer this way. In any case, I can't imagine these kinds of digs being healthy for proper function of the rifle. I am not an AR expert but it does seem to me that it is not good for a firing pin to have gouges in it that could impede free travel of the pin inside the bolt. I know that is true for M1/M14 bolts and can't imagine why it would be any different here. Would these do digs/gouges do that? I am not 100% sure. But it looks like hell. So aside from the obvious "try getting in touch with the mfgr and see if they would be willing to replace it for me" (they seem to be based out of the Fort Worth area), or buy another firing pin (it would probably have to be another brand and given the enhanced nature of this BCG I am not sure how much mixing and matching I should be doing), are there other viable options? Is there even a chance I could maybe polish this pin up with a dremel and buffing wheel or something? I have never tried doing that before. I am not opposed to replacing it I just don't know where I would get an exact replacement other than the mfgr, since the vendor is out of stock. So disappointing... why do vendors that are allowed to sell higher end parts do such a bad job packing them sometimes? I did take a couple pictures... Edited April 17, 2021 by Tack14 will update pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 OK here are pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 sorry those 2 were just about same spot from 2 angles. here is other side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) Being new to 308 AR's I am not sure how universal firing pins are. For example I have seen mention of some having smaller diameters etc. So I am not sure how safe it is to grab, for example, a JP Enterprises titanium pin and try to use it in this other brand bolt, this BCG is a bit specialized also. (an e-BCG full mass ) Edited April 17, 2021 by Tack14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 Does it hang up? If it doesn't then shoot it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: Does it hang up? If it doesn't then shoot it. It does in fact hang up, this was the start of a separate thread to cover said issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 Have to admire the simplicity of that. maybe it won't. WIll try Thanks jtallen. heck i don't see harm in mentioning brand. I am not complaining about the brand here. LANTAC E-BCG. If it hangs up and replacing it makes sense does anyone think it would be risky to put a JP Enterprise Titanium pin in? Not that I have a thing for those but I am sure the quality is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 sorry, I should have clarified. it drags bad running over my thumb, but will try putting it back into the bolt and see. Just hideous, lol. After 1500 rounds through my M14 that firing pin was still smooth. 🙂 I think this one just got slammed around alot in shipment. 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 Can you see inside the firing pin channel? Could be bad machining in there causing the issue. If you cant see then a thin wire rubbed along the sides might tell you if it is smooth in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 the firing pin is moving pretty freely through there, occasionally hangs a little when tilting it moving finger away to let it slide out/fall but not much. i can see in the channel (a bit like looking down a bore) but will probably have to try a piece of wire to see if it is hitting something sharp. Actually I need to get the extractor and ejector off anyway, looks like I should be able to see more once I get the extractor out. there is a section up closer to the bolt face that is "open" around the extractor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 Here's a pic with the extractor off. I haven't had too many AR bolts apart but this looks fairly different from the bolt on my (5.56) AR. Sliding the firing pin in and out of there with a little "tilt", I can feel the pin catching against what would be the "bottom corner" of what would be the "cutaway" section under the extractor, if that makes sense. And looking how the pin slides through I could see this maybe being the culprit. You can feel it if that pin has any "tilt" to it coming through the passage. Of course, how much til would you normally have if all is good/normal? But something is not quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 I dunno.. the more I think about this, the more I am not liking what I am seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 I have one more of these BCG's I bought for 2nd 308 AR. Will open that one up and look that one over in the morning. I think this one will be going back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 aaannnnnnnnnd the 2nd brand new BCG, same make/model but different vendor, I haven't even pulled the staples holding the clamshell together yet, has the firing pin stuck sticking out of the bolt face even when holding ass end down and tapping gently. (I would expect the pin to fall back down). This vendor just dropped the BCG in a box with one wad of paper and handed it to Fedex. So I imagine this firing pin will also be chewed up all to hell. I have probably had this one too long to be able to return it. I guess I'll start a new thread asking for a brand recommendation, AND a vendor recommendation. I need to find a vendor who knows how to pack high-end, expensive, and often heavy parts that are damn hard to find in stock anywhere into a box properly so you don't waste time, money (don't forget about those shipping fees you paid...) monkeying around with returns and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonewolf McQuade Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 20 minutes ago, Tack14 said: aaannnnnnnnnd the 2nd brand new BCG, same make/model but different vendor, I haven't even pulled the staples holding the clamshell together yet, has the firing pin stuck sticking out of the bolt face even when holding ass end down and tapping gently. (I would expect the pin to fall back down). This vendor just dropped the BCG in a box with one wad of paper and handed it to Fedex. So I imagine this firing pin will also be chewed up all to hell. I have probably had this one too long to be able to return it. I guess I'll start a new thread asking for a brand recommendation, AND a vendor recommendation. I need to find a vendor who knows how to pack high-end, expensive, and often heavy parts that are damn hard to find in stock anywhere into a box properly so you don't waste time, money (don't forget about those shipping fees you paid...) monkeying around with returns and so forth. Can't just order a couple new firing pins & be done with the very unfortunate mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterrex Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 Have you tried the first one in a gun and actually checked if the gun goes boom? If the gun goes boom does it feed the next round and go boom again? If it does you are probably worried about things that don't matter much in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 @Lonewolf McQuade maybe. (and thanks for replying) -- but I don't understand, the more i think about it and slide that firing pin around in the bolt, how it would be normal to get such digs into the fiiring pin. I can believe to a point that it may have been shock of package in transit with not enough packing materials making the pin slam laterally against some surface from shock inside the firing pin passage of the bolt. But when much at all of an angle is on the pin towards the extractor, the firing pin usually catches a bit. and the more I slide the pin through there the more it rubs on the pin (I know, captain obvious...) I'm not an expert on AR bolts, so I may just be overthinking all of this. And the pictures I posted probably weren't that great. Is it normal to get big digs/scrapes in your firing pin before you've even opened the package or would that be more suggestive /indicative to you of something not quite right in the passage the pin has to travel through?, like an edge sharp enough to capture the firing pin long enough to dig into it or make it stick? Maybe I'm just really over-analyzing this. Definitely possible. Maybe all of this IS normal and I'm worrying about nothing. But if I spend $20 or more on a brand-name 308 firing pin (and hope $MFGR will at least offer to replace the brand new damaged one I got from the package) and it turns out that replacement one gets eaten up also, by the time I have confirmation that my bolt on this BCG eats firing pins I will be past my return window and stuck with it, short of dealing with the manufacturer. That's what I"m worried about, primarily. The other one of these BCG's I have still in sealed pkg, the firing pin is sticking out of the bolt and may (I know, may != is) be stuck that way because that bolt has the same sharp edge that shouldn't be there too, and captured that firing pin. I just know my chances are better of full refund and no hassles if I don't open that package. It's frustrating. Sorry to spill all this noob foolishness of "I just don't have enough experience to know". Seeing these kind of digs and gouges in the pin scares me, that's all. If you guys are saying its normal dont sweat it, who cares if the pin gets some chunks/scrapes out of the taper behind what sticks through the bolt face, it shouldn't ever fly into the primer with more than a degree or three of til anyway in actual use (firing, hammer strike), then OK. Then I guess if I can get past the burr on the "driver's side" edge of the "ledge" the gas key bolts to maybe I should just settle for what I have and be glad to have the BCG's as we head into very questionable supply chain times.. @shooterrex thank you for replying also -- I really just got started building the first upper. I was going to try the bolt with the barrel and GO + NO-GO gauges to verify headspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted April 17, 2021 Report Share Posted April 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Tack14 said: This vendor just dropped the BCG in a box with one wad of paper and handed it to Fedex. So I imagine this firing pin will also be chewed up all to hell. I can't imagine the transport in a package having more violent movement that what it goes through when firing, highly doubt what you are seeing there happened during shipping. If it shoots shoot it, if it isn't reliable then schit can it and get a Toolcraft, basic and they work. Throw that Lantac up for sale here, I'd risk it for the right price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtrmn Posted April 18, 2021 Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 I figure Lantac will stand behind their BCG if you have trouble. I'd try it out if you get one of the guns together enough to do so. Maybe if you reach out to Lantac and at least inform them of the issue you'll have more "believability" when you DO get to try it. Meanwhile order another DPMS pattern firing pin somewhere just for a spare anyway. Like somebody else said I can't see that kinda damage happening during shipping or even while the firing pin was in the BCG. From doing a little looking around, you may not find another BCG anytime soon..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 Thanks jtallen83, I thought about that too. Wouldn't stuff made to perform under this kind of pressure take it without damage? Anyway, I will talk to LANTAC, hopefully on Monday, before making any decisions and go from there. I'm not really too keen on keeping things that have damage or defects right out of the box if that can't be rectified. If this came up 6 months from now after a lot of rounds downrange I would look at it a little differently. I also know we're in kind of strange times. Thanks though - really. Wish I had more experience under my belt here. Looks like I will have come by it honestly (painfully and grey hairs) whenever it is that I get there... but I usually do. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 Yep mtrmn, exactly. After initial research trying to find out who made the high quality BCG's I felt exceptionally lucky or just happened to be looking at exactly the right time to find those 2 I did find. There was almost nothing I was looking for in stock, but then suddenly pretty much everything came together at once for the first one, then the second a few days later. And not many BCG's out there again now. I don't want to have to send these back if I don't need to when I don't know where I can get a couple more BCG's. Good advice on the pin. I will want to have spares handy anyway. Had not seen your message yet as I was finishing up the one I just posted. But I was thinking same thing, talk to Lantac and see what they have to say before banging any gavels. I may never see any kind of wear or impact like this firing pin has on it in normal use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtrmn Posted April 18, 2021 Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 Also, about the OTHER BCG you said you haven't opened yet, the firing pin may be stuck due to some kind of corrosion protection like cosmoline or something. I'd be pulling THAT firing pin out to see if it's damaged as well. If you have 2 damaged firing pins then I'd call that grounds to begin the return process on BOTH BCGs. And if the dealer doesn't cooperate you still have Lantac to fall back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted April 18, 2021 Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 Personally, I would take a needle file and clean up the burrs on the firing pin and try it. If the gun functions like it is supposed to, problem solved. Some of you guys are OCD'ing these things to death! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted April 18, 2021 Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 19 minutes ago, 392heminut said: Personally, I would take a needle file and clean up the burrs on the firing pin and try it. If the gun functions like it is supposed to, problem solved. Some of you guys are OCD'ing these things to death! ^^^^ +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tack14 Posted April 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2021 (edited) Thanks for the additional replies. "in the multitude of counsel there is safety..." Really do appreciate it. I admit to being both a perfectionist and a noob to 308 AR's (and even AR's in general, to a lesser degree). After sleeping overnight and thinking about it fresh this morning, I realized what some have already said (and what I was also thinking as a factor), that I should be happy I found 2 BCG's and try to work with them. I'll contact Lantac tomorrow to ask about the firing pin and whether they believe it could indicate any type of problem with that bolt or the other thing or two I see and go from there. I imagine they would probably replace the firing pin for me due to condition I received it in straight out of the package. I will also open up the 2nd BCG and give it a good checkout. @mtrmn that is what I was thinking also as another possibility as to why the pin is sticking out of other bolt and won't tap out with some light taps of the package, maybe just some oil/grease. Assuming my concerns are put to rest, I will also ask them what other firing pins are compatible with this one and/or see about buying a couple spares and some other maint-related spare parts like extractor and ejector pins, springs etc.. All in all I decided that it really does make th e most sense to try to keep these BCG's, which are probably going to be just fine and high quality, if I can at all. Because times are strange... Gentlemen thank you. I did also check barrel chamber and bolt fit with this bolt + GO and NO-GO gauges and all is well. So I'm hoping for the best, ready to continue building first upper. Thanks again. Edited April 18, 2021 by Tack14 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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