Whoas and sadness with my first AR

[jlaw]

Hi guys, how is everybody this fine evening? I posted this reply in my introduction thread called "greetings from north Carolina". I figured this should pertain to this section not introductions so I am starting a new thread on the topic. -->

Got a chance to go shoot today with a bunch of friends. So excited to try this new platform! Loaded her up. Charged it. Got three shots out then " click ".. Oh no... Here we go...

I am not an AR databass to say the least, (that's what you  fine gentlemen are here for!!!   ) I had never shot one before today. So please excuse my lack of knowledge  pertaining to terms and parts related to the AR.

From these last couple of hours research ha ha... I think, not know, think that I'm experiencing a little short stroke/ failure to extract problems..  There are threads pertaining to new CMMG's having this problem, but I haven't found a definitive cause.

Ugh.. How to explain this without sounding incompetent..? The bolt seats a round, I am able to fire that round, and either it will extract the shell and load a new cartridge but not seat the bolt all the way. Or not extract at all.

I ordered the battle ax stock in mil spec, spoke to CDNN sports they told me the stock mk3 buffer tube (that I am using) is a civy spec. But the stock fits great very little play. Not to tight. Adjusts beautifully. Confused on how that works... I am using the XH buffer and spring (carbine length) from heavy buffers. Have tried to use the stock buffer and spring ( original one that was on the rifle), problem persists.

I put the Magpul that came on the rifle and the problem persist with both buffers and springs.

Sorry if this is getting long guys.. Bare with me please, and if I should post this in another category please let me know. I am new to online forums and want to abide by the rules haha..

I placed one round into my magazine and discharged it. The bolt locks back into place afterwards. And the shell is extracted fine. Heard that's a way to test short stroke. Not sure if that's true.

I removed my forend and Checked  the gas block it seemed as if it was not centered. I was able to push it a little further down the barrel towards the receiver  ( 1-2mm). Did a field strip and oiled the crap out of the bolt/extractor and such.

I am at home now so I cannot test the rifle (to much I live kinda in the country but still in a residential neighborhood. my neighbors shoot guns all the time but I don't wanna piss them off shooting a .308 in my back yard).

Anyway after adjusting the gas block that millimeter or so i took the rifle outside and discharged three shots without malfunction. Slowly.

Malfunctions with pmags and the x25 drum.

Surplus and Winchester ammo.

The mag is well seated.

I'm not riding the charge handle.

Do y'all think it is a gas problem, Is it something out of spec with my buffers/stock/spring?

 I will test more tomorrow at  my range, if i still am having problems do you guys have any suggestions? Any info would be fantastic guys.

Thanks again guys.

[Dusty44]

Been reading gun magazines again lately.  What comes up in my mind is an article by one of those gun mag guys about using surplus & cheap ammo.  What he said was that mil surplus & cheap ammo is sold to get it out of the supply system because it  is:  old-  primers are not up to standard any more and do not generate enough fire or do not work at all;  powder/cartridges have experienced poor storage conditions and powder burns at unreliable rates or maybe not at all;  Marginal quality-  ammo that may be more current production but the lots failed QC tests as:  pressures high,  pressures low,  other problems including use of bullet designs that do not do well in semi-autos/full-autos.  This poor quality thing was aimed mostly at ammo made outside the US.

The solution offered was new US made brand name ammo with bullet weights close to the US/NATO 147 gr standard (for the 308 Win/7.62 NATO).

Beyond that,  many of us have needed to feed one round at a time for a few dozen to a few hundred rounds to teach the rifle what it was supposed to do?

Run your rifle wet.  I think it was in "Guns" magazine for Jan 2012,  waiting in the line of cars for my grandkids to get out of school today,  my favorite gun oil,  Mobil One 10W-30 Full Synthetic,  was touted.  Harbor Freight sells a little oil can that works well with this oil.  I add 20% to 35% Kroil to the mix (standard highly sophisticated measurement:  dump some in and "Yeah!  That looks like enough!").  Shake the bottle of Mobil One to mix the stuff inside before pouring into the little oil can or before pouring it over the gun parts;  shake the little oil can to mix both the motor oils and the Kroil together.  A rifle coated with this oil will always be vastly easier to clean.  The lube qualities of the synthetic motor oils will help all the parts in the AR to work more smoothly.  This synthetic motor oil can be dried with paper towel.  The actual synthetic lube oil will be in the pores of the metal and will still do its thing.

Anyway,  the item in the magazine today affirmed the need for these AR's to have lots of lube.

My own AR is a DPMS factory rifle.  It had the usual teething problems of not feeding well and I was putting one round at a time into the port and releasing the bolt to chamber the cartridge.  After a couple of dozen shots,  maybe 50 or 60,  I tried some new ammo by loading the (DPMS 19 round steel factory) magazine and watching to see what it did.  10 rounds,  4 times,  (and everything since) a variety of ammo including Russian steel cased,  handloads,  top-priced branded factory,  bullet weights from 140 to 180.  No hiccups.  Expended cases all land a couple of feet to my right. 

Note:  casings used for reloads that were fired in my Rem 700 bolt do not fit the chamber of the AR or my Savage 111 well.  Casings fired in the AR or the Savage do fine in all three rifles.  I only resize necks, minimal reload tools include only a Lee Loader and a Lee Hand Press (looks like a big nutcracker).

I am trying to say that casings on reloaded ammo from your own previous use or any source at all might not do well in the new AR even though they meet nominal dimensional specs.  This can be another of the problems of foreign or cheap ammo.  Is that stuff really 308 Win or is it really 7.62 NATO or maybe somewhere in between or something 'not quite' that will work fine once the rifle is running smoothly?  Include excellent high-dollar ammo that works great in bolt guns but the bullets do not feed for beans in an auto-loader.

Hang in,  keep shooting.  Your new AR will do fine.

[edgecrusher]

First off run it sopping wet for awhile, as it may take some time breaking in. Second, personally I wouldn't run any surplus ammo until you have a thoroughly broken in rifle. Personally I only buy American ammo, mostly federal. That's just me

[Retired JM]

the gas block it seemed as if it was not centered. I was able to push it a little further down the barrel towards the receiver  ( 1-2mm).

You shouldn't be able to push or move the gas block by hand at all. This is probably the root cause of your malfs - a gas leak. I'd take the rifle to your local gun shop and have them re-center/re-pin the gas block.

The advice about using surplus ammo in a new rifle and lubing the BCG is very valid.

[survivalshop]

jlaw

I'm agree with Retired Jm, that statement about moving the gas block had me rereading twice to make sure I read that.

The gas block may be off the shoulder a few thousands because some are designed to have the hand guard cap fit between it & that barrel shoulder. You were not clear of what type of hand guard you have , but getting those gas holes lined up , between the gas block & gas port in the barrel is crucial to the function of the gas system , not to mention , as said , secure.

Dusty44

You will need to , at a minimum, full length size the brass for a semi auto rifles , to permit them to feed reliably. I use small base dies ,because I shoot the same reloads in mutable AR's & no two chambers are alike.

[392heminut]

Another thing you might do (I think I read it somewhere on this board) is lube your buffer, the buffer tube, and buffer spring.

[jlaw]

You guys are the shiznit. I'm going to go give her a test now. Was suspecting that gas block movement was not right! I'm using a Troy 13.8 hand gaurd  dusty44. I'll be back in 2 hours with a report. Can't thank you gentlemen enough. Very happy I joined this forum!!!  <thumbsup>

[jlaw]

Alrighty, ran perfect with the lesser of two evils ( crapy Wally world ammo and the surplus). I only had one box of the Winchester from wall-mart, but it ran fine. No failures or malfunctions. The surplus would not feed reliably. Had maybe ten failures to feed out of the seventy rounds I had.. Make me feel a hell of a lot better. Ran it wet like you guys said.. But no failure to eject or fire so in happy.

I'm thinking with quality ammo it'll run fine.

I'll order some federal tonight. I use sgammo.com for my pistolas.. They seem to have fair prices. Any suggestions on the .308? Im looking to buy in bulk of course.

[edgecrusher]

i like federal ammo, it's almost all i buy. the american eagle line they have is good quality for the price, and i use that in my pws, 150gr and 168 gr, then in my larue it's gold medal match, 168gr only so far, but when it warms i m going to try a few things including 175gr gmm, so 168 gr and 175gr amax from hornady. your twist in your barrel should dictate how  it will perform, but 168gr will run well in 1 in 10 and 1 in 11 twist barrels

[jlaw]

Good deal right?? http://www.cabelas.com/rifle-ammunition-federal-american-eagle-308-win-ammunition-ammo.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=1278431&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=D39B3981-46E6-E011-9A77-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA

[edgecrusher]

I get mine for 11.99 a box at my local shop, 21.99 for 168gr gmm. Try palmetto state armory if you can order through the mail, I can't but remember them having good prices.

[98Z5V]

Another thing you might do (I think I read it somewhere on this board) is lube your buffer, the buffer tube, and buffer spring.

That's me.  On a brand new gun, or one that would pass an Army CIP Arms Room Inspection, that area is bone dry.  You wouldn't believe the amount of resistance is makes in cycling the weapon. 

Here's how I found this out - the hard, embarrassing way.  Assigned to lead a week of Funeral Detail.  From assignment as NCOIC, to training the people, to the TDY for a week.  5 funerals that week we got it.  I had some UNCOORDINATED Soldiers, and they looked like poop for the Firing Detail.  One way to improve the look was to reduce the steps in the Manual of Arms with the M16A2s we had.  "Ready, Aim, Fire" is a repititous step every time you fire, with the "Ready" on all steps following the first - being, charge the weapon to feed the next blank round.  They looked like a monkey fucking a football, rifles not level, all charging at different times, etc.  It was poop.  Must eliminate steps...

Get the guns up with "Ready, Aim, Fire" the first time, and only have to "Aim, Fire" after that, guns staying level - if I get the weapons to cycle with blanks, without having ugly-ass blank adapters on the ends...

I "built" hidden blank adapters that went under the flash suppressors.  Worked like a champ in my rifle.  First funeral detail, half the guns didn't fire on the 2nd and 3rd volleys - looked like poop, sounded like poop, and was a total embarrassment, fully reflecting on ME.  I wanted to take their rifles away from them and club them like baby seals.  I shoot mine, the poop works, I grab theirs, and they don't work.  Strip everything down.  The NON-working guns had bone dry buffers, buffer springs, and dry inside the receiver extensions.  Lube that poop up, and the guns run on the home made BFAs.  Huh, miracle...  Their weapons were inspection-ready, but wouldn't function.

After that, I ALWAYS make sure I've got a light coat of CLP on the buffer, buffer spring, and inside the receiver extension - most ARs built and bought don't come that way.

Sorry for the long story - it was a definite learning point for me.

The funeral detail where the guns didn't run was televised, and it was a high priority funeral - the first female to pass away during Desert Storm.  :-[

[jlaw]

Long stories do not bother me one bit sir. That's awful to hear that happened to that women. Wow.

I'ma Lube her up right now.  ;D

Does y'alls brass deflector get scratched up? Is this normal? I figure it should be. But for 70rds mines pretty dinged up.

Brass deflector may not be the correct term

.

[98Z5V]

Completely normal.  <thumbsup>

[Retired JM]

Does y'alls brass deflector get scratched up? Is this normal? I figure it should be.

Completely normal. Think of them as love taps. At least it shows you've actually been firing it.

[jlaw]

Put another 120rds through the beast today. I used 150gr Remington express from dick's. Results weren't very good, had maybe 10-20 Failure to feed. Running plenty lubed up.

Seems like the rounds are getting caught up on the feed ramp.. Well, not the feed ramp persay but where the ramp meets the reciever.. My phone died while I was out so I only got to snap a pic or two.. Their shity pictures and ya can't even see the ramp  >:( !!

It seems like the reciever is chipped right there where it meets the ramp ?? This could be normal wear tho.  This is the exact point the tip Of the round is getting stuck. I took some 2000 grit sand paper and polished it just a little bit.

Also it seems like maybe the rounds coming out of the pmag were meeting some resistance. So i dremeled the front of the mag on the left hand. Now the rounds slide out of the mag with little resistance.

I'm posting this from the IPhone. So I can't post pics. I'll put some up in 15-20 mins.

Any opinions????????

[jlaw]

here are the few picks i could take before the phone died..... And some pictures of my ramp.

[jlaw]

the rest.

[98Z5V]

Those feed ramps need work - I don't know what to think of those things.  This is usually an AR-15 problem, not a .308 AR problem.  Just don't know, man.  <dontknow>

[jlaw]

what do ou mean buddy?

[jlaw]

You tryna tell me my AR don't love me or somethin??? Now thats just plain old messed up man...

Might as well insulted my momma..  :)

[98Z5V]

Meant to say AR-15, not AR-5 - fixed that in the previous post.

Anyway, there can be feed problems in AR-15s, when you start mixing upper receivers and barrels that both have M4 feedramps, and don't.

You said your rounds are catching in that specific area.  First I've heard of it on a .308 AR, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened before - I just haven't seen it yet, until now.

Here's a pic of the problems with the AR-15 combinations (below) - I'd look at your feedramps, and the area where the barrel extension meets the upper receiver.  If your rounds were catching there and causing Failures to Feed, then it's an issue. 

[survivalshop]

First off , I can tell you that some AR's don't like lead tipped bullets / spear point bullets. I can see from the first set of photos that the bullet is pushed into the case .

This is usually a magazine problem ,but can be a mag catch issue also ( too loose ). Have you tried other mags ? Different manufacturers ?

I have an early CMMG lower build that will not work with the Pmags ,but will ,with all of steel mags out there . With the Pmags , it does the same thing as yours or just misses the round altogether.

You say you had no problems with Winchester ammo ?

[jlaw]

Alright. This Dam rife is pushing me to the limits..

Bought some good stuff today. Hornady Tap 168gr and Hornady zombie max 168gr. Drove out to my shooting spot (forgot my ears.. And they are still ringing). How neat is the zombie ammo HAHA??! Total marketing scam but pretty cool to show the buddies. Green ballistic tip My fiancee posted a pic of the box on facebook.. People thought it was funny.

Got about ten shots off without any FTFeed... Then the rifle started to short stroke. One after another six in total. Looked through the holes in my fore rail.. To my surprise my gas block had moved maybe 3-4 millimeters away from the receiver.. Fun poop. :( Brought a set of allen keys but I didn't have the correct set  >:( . What a day... To top that off drove down to the local sheriff department to turn in my CCW, decent 45 min drive. It's totally MLK day if anyone doesn't know..  :cookoo:

Did a take down last night, cleaned, lubed the fornicate out of everything. Didn't mess with the gas block or tube...

Heres a pic of what I did to the mag last night  after I had all those FTF, seems to feed nicer than it did prior. Also the gay block. sorry gas block. Any opinions on why the block moved? not aligned properly? Funny how I got 120 shots off yesterday no worries then ten today and it moves..

First off , I can tell you that some AR's don't like lead tipped bullets / spear point bullets. I can see from the first set of photos that the bullet is pushed into the case .

This is usually a magazine problem ,but can be a mag catch issue also ( too loose ). Have you tried other mags ? Different manufacturers ?

I have an early CMMG lower build that will not work with the Pmags ,but will ,with all of steel mags out there . With the Pmags , it does the same thing as yours or just misses the round altogether.

You say you had no problems with Winchester ammo ?

My feed ramp resembles the one marked OK in the Picture you posted 98Z.

That was a typo on my part my friend I had meant to put Remington. All I have is the one Pmag and the X-25 50rd drum at the moment. FTFeed occurs with the drum as well.

Thank you again and in advanced for the replies folks!

[392heminut]

That gas block moving forward could definitely cause some short stroke problems. When it moves the misaligned gas ports in the barrel  and gas block can cut down on the gas getting through to operate the BCG. You could take a drill bit that just fits into the holes for the setscrews and drill small dimples in the barrel for the setscrews to seat in and that should solve your problem with the gas block moving.