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Using .308 AR for SHTF


SHTF .308

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First, this thread makes my head hurt with the amount of Rambo-fantasy bullpoopy that's being tossed about.  I'll have to read this two or three more times just to be able to comprehend what some of these wildass goals really are for some of you.

Next.  ENGLISH is a requirement on this message board.  It's never really been specified before - but it's never been needed before, either.  poop like this below is NOT going to go here:

My opinion, and my opinion only - if you're so damn lazy that you can't type out some real ENGRISH, then don't even bother - don't even post.  I'm not going to waste what little time I have trying to decipher your bullpoopy.  I'm not texting you, and you're not texting me - it's not costing you ANY character space on your monthly contract. 

You either take the time to make your posts intelligible, or I'll delete them.  I'll take the time out of my day to spare the others that really look to help others - I'll delete your garbage so we can move on to more important topics - the ones that care enough to really say what they mean, or want.

Don't short-hand poop around here.  I personally can't stand seeing it, I won't try to figure out what you're trying to say, and I won't put others through it.  Use your brain instead of being lazy. 

If you don't like that - that's just too bad.

I wasn't lazy I was texting from my phone while at work is all, I was kind of in a rush to get the reply out. This is just my 3rd or 4th day on this forum and I am already being attacked for some petty stuff. I thought this was a forum about guns not grammatical errors for collegiate purposes.

Thats how you the administrator respond to things you don't like by disrespectfully and distastefully telling others about how you disagree with something.

If you want your forum to be graced with such benevolent intent all you had to do was approach me like a man. Thats all, hey shtf.308 could you clean the writing up a bit I'm having a hard time understanding your writing or I want to keep my forum formal. That would have sufficed but you couldn't do that.

Instead you like the military guy on page 1 attack me for my purposes and choices or lack thereof. It never ceases to amaze me how cut throat people can be over petty BS. YOU are

the admin and this is your attitude on some out of all things writing, it's not like I was talking about the space time continuum which would have absolutely no place on this forum. I mean damn though it's writing as I mentioned before all was needed was a professional approach to an informal means. I like the people on here who have since responded with the exclusions of a few but you don't see me making that known either. Nope that ain't me I give each and every person respect until they decide to do away with it. You were also so right its your sole opinion and view I respect that but often the way we say things, the words we choose, the tone we use, the facial expressions we present will provide all the necessary information one will need to access another's attitude. In lieu of that, the above still wont stop me from replying to your comment with a civilized response. At least this time.

You do what you have to do to...

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look, bottom line is this. the .308 ar is a great weapon, for many reasons. yes, it fills your needs, and i still stand by my ammo response that, you need to break it in then test out different loads to find out what is good. like planeflyer said, two consecutive rifles off the line may not like the same ammo. we want you here, don't shy off, this thread got carried in several directions inadvertently. when you decide on your gun, we can help more from there.

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Instead you like the military guy on page 1 attack me for my purposes and choices or lack thereof. It never ceases to amaze me how cut throat people can be over petty BS.

I'm thinking that you're referring to me. Pointing out flaws in your statements and asking questions is not an attack - it's an attempt to get you to re-evaluate your plan.

If you consider that an attack, then so be it. If it's any consolation, the thought that I may have hurt your feelings will have me tossing and turning restlessly all night tonight.

As for the admin (and others) calling you out for grammar, spelling, and syntax errors consider this: Without being face to face or voice to voice, poorly written communication makes it harder to understand the sender's message than correctly written English. Taking the time to properly write out your thoughts and questions also shows consideration and respect for your intended audience. Your response to 98Z5V certainly gives the impression that you expect courtesy but feel no need to return it.

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Damn, I only read part of this last night.  And now, two more pages???

In my humble opinion SHTF 308, you need to learn more about the people on a message board, gun club, etc. before jumping in with a subject like this.  Again, just my opinion, but survival with any type of catastrophe where you expect to need to defend you and yours with an armed response is not everyone's bag. So you should expect some of the responses like you've gotten.

Training???  I would have thought you would have sought out something like the NRA Basic Rifle course FIRST and at least familiarized yourself with a rifle.  Shotguns and rifles are different like doing surgery is with an axe or a scalpel.  Taking some of the courses mentioned AFTER the NRA Basic Rifle Class is almost a must.  Several schools have rifles you can rent, and therefore experience various do-dads and tacticool equipment options before you jump in head first as a civilian.  Making non-friends (re:enemies) of the military members of this or any board is not going to garner you any advice on courses to take, equipment you might want, accessories, etc.

Survivalist/prepper subject matter?  Well, I would think that most (God I hope I'm not going out on a limb here) of the members don't own equipped .308 AR platform rifles because they need to be tacti-cool for their neighbors. But most people will at least offer advice on how a weapon should be used. Given you aren't just jumping in with "hey, when the world goes to poop, what gun should I own and how much ammo do I need?"  If you do, then you're likely to be written off as a "survivalist gun nut" or an air soft commando, and well, both are just wrong.  Like, a screen door on a submarine wrong.  And just as useless.

And the language.  Dude, no one likes a sceenster 15 year old who text speaks.  If you're at work, I'm sure you're employer would like you to be working, rather than texting a message board about what rifle you need to defend your home against your co-workers when they come for your food and water.

Oh, and one more thing:  <munch>

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@ SHTF.308

"<thumbsup>SHTF .308

.308 is the right way to go.

It has real punch, accuracy, is affordable and is easy to reload.

The AR platform is easy to shoot and maintain.

All in all, it is my 1st choice in all situations, ranging from plinking to EOWAWKI.

Sweet thanks for the input, What type of ammo you recommend stockpiling"

The only correct answer to that question is: The best you can afford.

Your proposed AR-308 rifle and the ammo you select is a team.

Surplus junk will always let you down.

Buy premium stuff.

Buy something usefull for hunting purposes.

Why?

Simply put, You will be more likely to shoot feral hog and dear than a looter.

I do not advise advertising your piece by sitting in front of your home after a natural disaster such as a hurricane or anything similar.

Evacuate like the sane people are doing.

We are a long way from the gloom and doom that occupies the minds of many. Thanks to Hollywood, too many people think in terms of a world that will resemble a MadMax movie.

Reality will more likely resemble the Great Depression- "Brother can you spare a dime" world if the economy does really tank.

Kindness and Charity of Americans and Canadians flourished during that time.

Not insanity.

Folks were not shooting each other.

That was mostly just in the movies.

Prohibition and Elliot Ness looked great on film too.

Not many folks involved in that either.

I once read an article about the man responsible for inventing the television.

He deeply regretted having done so.

He felt it was being misused.

He didn't even own one.

Media is only entertainment and unfortunatly we all seem to be over influenced by what we see on television and hear on the radio.

We only get to see and hear the most extreme opinions and ramblings there are.

They get air time for their entertainment value only.

The higher the ratings, the more likely the advertising sponsors will see higher profit margins on the product they sell.

Its hard to seperate hype from reality.

An example could be the Jerry Springer show.

Do any of us personnaly know the guests that would appear on his show?

I'm of the opinion that 99% of it was all made up!

As for becoming an Isolationist in an armed compound?

If you do not already have 40 acres and barbed wire, don't bother.

Have some money saved in cash on hand and some basic food supplies and a good can opener and some extra gas cans you can fill up before you drive out to your cousins.

This nation is so vast that there will be plenty of havens to relocate to after a disaster.

So don't think in the fixed mind set of the apocalypse.

That would automatically funnel your thinking during any stressfull situation.

Such a fixed mind set will limit your choices and reactions, setting you up for a mistake that you will later regret.

I personnaly would rather be out on a boat with a fishing rod than holed up in a log cabin armed to the teeth waiting for hoards of the hungry that want my 50ib sack of dried pinto beans and MREs.

If anyone has read this far I apologise.

I have on occassion found myself rambling on without any real point to make.

Thanks for your patience.

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There have been a whole bunch of SHTF situations.  Russia in the revolution/post-revolution in the WW-1 era and the 1930's.  Germany in the "Weimar Republic" era,  much of the United States in the 1930's Depression.  Much of Europe during and after WW-2.  The list is ridiculously long if one wishes to compile even some of it.

People mostly behave.  People and governments mostly work together to the best of their ability and resources for the common good.  Weapons are not needed any more than in any other time. 

Yes,  for those spring-loaded to jump down my throat,  criminals are 'about' and some defense is good.  That said,  Texas is as gun-friendly as there is.  Castle Doctrine,  Concealed Carry,  common sense.  Still,  use of a gun or other weapon for personal defense requires that the police officers responding and the members of the Jury later on are in no doubt that the person using the weapon was unquestionably in a life-threatening situation with no other recourse.  There is very little real difference anywhere in the US.  We also know that in nations where guns are forbidden to the general population or have been taken away,  the bad guys still have guns and gun violence is worse than in the US, worse than in places where guns are commonly available;  it is just not reported in a Media frenzy.

In any use or operation of a weapon,  the individual rights also come to a sudden stop at the property line.  The person discharging a firearm,  intentionally or accidentally,  is responsible for what ever that bullet may do and especially so once it crosses a property line.  Penalties are severe.  Individuals with professional or other familiarity and frequent use of weapons are the first and most serious about applying those penalties to misuse of weapons.

A personal-defense firearm is pretty much limited to short-range and low-penetration projectiles.  It really does not take a lot to deal with most criminal situations.  Bad guys do not want to be shot.  If the situation requires,  a person is a target  only about a foot thick.  Bird shot from a shotgun of most calibers,  rapid-expanding bullets from smaller caliber handguns--  is going to be adequate if the person defending themselves is at all competent in the use of the weapon.  If familiarity and competence is lacking for any reason,  the only real result will be disaster for all.

Most of the 308 AR rifles in this forum are fun&games.  Target shooting,  hunting,  building and working with the machinery.  A few are serious because the users are police officers and need these weapons or very similar department-provided weapons for professional reasons.  Because of the range and power,  use of any rifle other than -maybe- a 22 (there are always specific exceptions and situations for the nitpickers to use in attacking anything said),  is not realistic or acceptable in self-defense.  Try thinking in terms of what a judge and jury will think,  not what you as the person dreaming up a situation or scenario wishes to believe.

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There have been a whole bunch of SHTF situations.  Russia in the revolution/post-revolution in the WW-1 era and the 1930's.  Germany in the "Weimar Republic" era,  much of the United States in the 1930's Depression.  Much of Europe during and after WW-2.  The list is ridiculously long if one wishes to compile even some of it.

People mostly behave.  People and governments mostly work together to the best of their ability and resources for the common good.  Weapons are not needed any more than in any other time. 

Yes,  for those spring-loaded to jump down my throat,  criminals are 'about' and some defense is good.  That said,  Texas is as gun-friendly as there is.  Castle Doctrine,  Concealed Carry,  common sense.  Still,  use of a gun or other weapon for personal defense requires that the police officers responding and the members of the Jury later on are in no doubt that the person using the weapon was unquestionably in a life-threatening situation with no other recourse.  There is very little real difference anywhere in the US.  We also know that in nations where guns are forbidden to the general population or have been taken away,  the bad guys still have guns and gun violence is worse than in the US, worse than in places where guns are commonly available;  it is just not reported in a Media frenzy.

In any use or operation of a weapon,  the individual rights also come to a sudden stop at the property line.  The person discharging a firearm,  intentionally or accidentally,  is responsible for what ever that bullet may do and especially so once it crosses a property line.  Penalties are severe.  Individuals with professional or other familiarity and frequent use of weapons are the first and most serious about applying those penalties to misuse of weapons.

A personal-defense firearm is pretty much limited to short-range and low-penetration projectiles.  It really does not take a lot to deal with most criminal situations.  Bad guys do not want to be shot.  If the situation requires,  a person is a target  only about a foot thick.  Bird shot from a shotgun of most calibers,  rapid-expanding bullets from smaller caliber handguns--  is going to be adequate if the person defending themselves is at all competent in the use of the weapon.  If familiarity and competence is lacking for any reason,  the only real result will be disaster for all.

Most of the 308 AR rifles in this forum are fun&games.  Target shooting,  hunting,  building and working with the machinery.  A few are serious because the users are police officers and need these weapons or very similar department-provided weapons for professional reasons.  Because of the range and power,  use of any rifle other than -maybe- a 22 (there are always specific exceptions and situations for the nitpickers to use in attacking anything said),  is not realistic or acceptable in self-defense.  Try thinking in terms of what a judge and jury will think,  not what you as the person dreaming up a situation or scenario wishes to believe.

You all bring up some credible ideas about such a scenario and it's possibility of actually  God forbid coming to fruition. My opinion in this matter is a bit different having lived in a state that usually gets at least one major storm per year, I have seen first hand just how evil people can be. I have seen looters and robbers, I have also seen the good come out of people at least when they know help is on the way. The reason why the Great Depression was not as widespread is simple, the population was much smaller than it is now over half to be exact and many more people became self sufficient by owning farms and inhabiting the Midwest which if I recall was and still is for the most part rich in wildlife and resources

http://www.genealogybranches.com/1930census.html

In my state of Florida we are just as relaxed as Texas is about guns we too have a Castle doctrine and never once had a Duty to retreat. What curbs and shapes my thought is protection for me and my family that's all a .308AR is just an added layer of that protection, I don't have a need or want for that matter to hurt anyone who isn't intending on hurting me. If The Sh*t ever does hit the fan I want nothing more than to be self sufficient and well prepared. hell if need be I have a means to go out and shoot hogs with the .308 or varmint with the 9mm the possibilities are endless, I agree a gun in every sense of the word should be used for peaceful purposes but as we all not everyone thinks like that some don't consider it to be a tool some consider it to be a weapon. I have a understanding after seeing a friend of mine take a few hogs with a bolt in 308 the out right power of the round and in knowing such I feel pretty comfortable saying I never use it as a CQB weapon unless I had no other choices or options the risk for over penetration is too great. I believe it was the military guy who quoted this Rule #4 know your target and what's beyond it, always be aware of your backstop should that bullet decide to continue traveling. The harsh reality for me is that their are 19 million people in this state of which 60 or more percent occupy the southern half from West Palm Beach County and southward. I stay just South of West Palm Beach and just north of Miami Dade County. In a literal sense how long can 19 million Floridians live off of Hogs and Varmint before we begin to overrun each other for their resources.

I really don't want to turn this thread into a survival thread at all, I just want you guy's opinion on the reliability of the platform, cartridge advantages v disadvantages, and just the overall pros and cons of the platform itself. That was the real goal as I said earlier I have a friends who owns a saiga in .308 have shot extensively but me being the patriot I am would like the American standard while perhaps using Russian ammo for plinking and range time.

And I honestly hate the fact that this is my reason for the thread but it is the guns most important purpose among others because I practice with my 9 the most at the moment until I decide whether or not to even buy a .308AR.

I am not becoming a freedom fighter or a Rambo-esque maniac or even a Survival nut, I just want some ideas on the use of this platform for a hypothetical situation.

Thanks again!!!!!!

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Arizona has one thing that neither Texas nor Florida currently has...open carry.

Dusty, you make some great points about responsibility/accountability for that projectile (multiple projectiles from that shotgun).  In AZ, while we are now a "stand your ground" state (no duty to retreat in public before using justified deadly force), they will HAMMER you for any innocent getting hurt/killed.  For urban/suburban daily carry, you hit the nail on the head.

Lots of the nation isn't aware but there were at least two citizens at the Giffords shooting carrying concealed but they couldn't safely take a shot (with sixty people running eighty different directions, I defy anyone to place a well aimed shot from a distance in that chaos).

Out in the desert here though, I want firepower close, if not actually on my person.  South of the interstate system anything goes with traffickers...of drugs or humans.  Huge swaths of my state are posted "WARNING: This area serves as a corridor for drug and human smuggling!!"  Stash houses for the same contraband can and have been found in any area/neighborhood, from the poorest to the wealthiest.

We're still responsible for anything that gets hit downrange.

Be sure of your target and what is beyond.

Jon

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@ SHTF.308

"<thumbsup>SHTF .308

.308 is the right way to go.

It has real punch, accuracy, is affordable and is easy to reload.

The AR platform is easy to shoot and maintain.

All in all, it is my 1st choice in all situations, ranging from plinking to EOWAWKI.

Sweet thanks for the input, What type of ammo you recommend stockpiling"

The only correct answer to that question is: The best you can afford.

Your proposed AR-308 rifle and the ammo you select is a team.

Surplus junk will always let you down.

Buy premium stuff.

Buy something usefull for hunting purposes.

Why?

Simply put, You will be more likely to shoot feral hog and dear than a looter.

If anyone has read this far I apologise.

I have on occassion found myself rambling on without any real point to make.

Thanks for your patience.

Okay; #1. Apology accepted!#2. See Bold above..... Let's hope to hell he's not shooting Dear, but rather DEER.

I love a good ramble; I just caught the typo and laughed my ass off!!! <laughs> Thank you for the entertainment at your expense. Good stuff!! To the OP: The muzzle break?? I have a couple of them, one is on a .338 Lapua. It makes a BIG difference on that one. Of course, anyone spending time along side me gets their hair re-arranged and singed off, but that's what friends are for! I do not feel for a carbine size rifle a break would be necessary. Especially given the intended uses of a carbine size rifle. While they CAN deliver the knockout punch on a hog at 500 yards, most shooting is really under 200 yards. And at 200, my rifle shoots very straight with no issues whatsoever. As to a flash suppressor, maybe if they are really good, then it might be worth it. I don't really know what to say on that; At night, even an AR15 with a flash suppressor makes for one heck of a fireball if you are looking in it's direction, or looking thru a scope shooting over it. If the flash suppressor will make the fireball smaller and round, then I would say it is worth adding on, especially for hog hunting or varmint hunting. I feel it is not the end all, beat all because a .308 is not real quiet when it goes off in the dead of night. So a little fireworks to go with the boom is just par for the course.

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I thought this was a forum about guns not grammatical errors for collegiate purposes.

Thats how you the administrator respond to things you don't like by disrespectfully and distastefully telling others about how you disagree with something.

If you want your forum to be graced with such benevolent intent all you had to do was approach me like a man.

Excerpt of what you replied with - and like I told you, if you don't like it, too bad.

Now, first this is a gun forum, and not a forum about "grammatical errors for collegiate purposes."  However, expecting people to give you answers to the junk you typed is ridiculous.  If you want help or advice, at least show the respect to the audience you're requesting the information from - by asking in a manner that's easier to read. You didn't even consider the disrespect you showed this board, with that, did you?

Second point: You talk about disrespectfully and distastefully responding?  Are you serious?  You have no ground to stand on with that, whatsoever.  Go back to my paragraph above for an example.  Show the audience you're requesting the info from a little respect, and give them a better tool to work with, instead of what you're doing here.

Last - you want me to approach you like a man about it?  No worries - if you have anything further to say about this, then take it to PMs and I'll help you figure it out real quick.  If you can't understand it, your stay here will be short.  I'm telling you that directly, and personally, like a man.

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As Matt noted early on this thread was destined for trouble. I'm done with this and any user that generates this kind of reaction from members and staff has no place here. There are better forums with like minded individuals for the information you seek.

Thread locked and Im sorry your membership here did not work out.

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