Kidd SuperGrade

[BrianK]

I've been wanting to try a new shooting sport, long range shooting. There are 600 yard ranges sorta near by but they can't be used unless a competition is happening. Just a guess, basically they want enough people to run it safely. But those same ranges are OK w/o a match being run out to 300 yards. That's not really what I had in mind for long range. What to do?

.22 rimfire is my solution. Those same 300 yard ranges and .22 rimfire make for a condensed "long range". I had a rifle that I was planning to use. I bought a Browning T-Bolt in '72 at the Weisbaden West Germany (at the time) AFB Rod & Gun club and I thought it would be accurate enough for the task. My testing confirmed that even though it was a fairly light sporter. But my testing required me to convert the 3/8" tip off dovetail to a rail and while accurate enough that induced ejection issues that I couldn't solve. So I sold the rifle to someone who wanted it and I know will take care of it. Since that sale I saw a solution that would have worked, but the deed was done and the rifle was no longer mine. In truth the required accessories turned that rifle from a svelte sporter into something more like a lumbering earth mover.

But I needed to replace the T-Bolt with something. The T-Bolt is a straight pull bolt action. That was important later in life for me because I had sustained severe wrist damage. It healed but sustained use of the wrist does result in discomfort. My Drs call it trauma arthritis. Straight pull for me is a good thing. I looked at Anschutz but the entry fee for their straight pull rifles was far more than I had to spend. I looked at the Summit but also read reviews and listened to owners. I didn't think it would be accurate enough and I read too many reports of issues with them. That left semi-autos that are straight pull once and shoot a bunch before pulling the bolt back again. I bought a KIGG SuperGrade with a 20" bull barrel and a 2 stage 8/8 trigger. To save tax $ on the purchase I ordered the chassis in one order and the second order was for the barreled action. The chassis arrived, then I waited for the rest. 

The resulting rifle on the day that I bolted it together.

[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/RZnp3hT6/Kidd-setup-adjusted-small.jpg[/img][/url]

I had the scope, I had been using it on the T-Bolt. It's a Brownells 5-25 x56 MPO that I got on clearance for $300 off (now discontinued). Quite a bit of what's seen as "scope" is just sunshade. I keep it on the scope 'cause I have no good place to store it. It's on a base with 20 moa of comeups and another 20 moa of comeups in the KIDD rail, 40 total. The bipod I had for a few years, an Atlas 5-H. The entire rifle as it sits there weighs 12.2#. The buttstock is a Luth-AR.

So far I've only shot it out to 50 yards and it's definitely accurate. I'm still on the search for the right ammo. Predictably, but I had to test it anyway, cheap ammo isn't what gives the best results. Mehhh ammo gives mehhh accuracy. Right now I'm shooting SK Long Range and Match Rifle and getting the best results. But $.60/rnd ammo is not in my budget so I'll stick with SK and just lot test before buying more.  Can't do that until more of it hits our shores though. Probably the most inaccurate part of the rifle system is the old guy behind the trigger. I also need to find a way to stop down the objective lens 'cause on bright days there's just too much light for me. 

Tested, a random brick of SK Rifle Match and Long Range. If one wants to shoot groups for braggin' rights one shoots 3-5 round groups. Then I found out that a better way to test ammo and the rifle system was 30-35 round groups. Note that I always, when shooting groups dial in some hold off so that I can keep my aimpoint intact. 30 round groups are far below. When I lot test I expect (fingers crossed) that the flyers not caused by me disappear; aka groups will shrink.

[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/YqbvwntT/Target-May4.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://postimages.org/][img]https://i.postimg.cc/C5mXVMHn/Target-06-16-2024-0001.jpg[/img][/url]

Dang it! In my time away I forgot that I never did learn how to post pics on this forum!

Edited July 10 by BrianK

[BrianK]

Let's try the pics again. 

OK, that's better!

[unforgiven]

Genius brother good shooting 

[Cunuckgaucho]

Impressive shooting and a great read, looking forward to further chapters.

[98Z5V]

I love .22s - damn nice acquisition!   That is one hell of a nice rifle.  Kidd doesn't mess around.  

[BrianK]

What is seen on a KIDD is just part of it. It took alot for me to drop the hammer on one. But I wasted all of last year trying to get the T-Bolt to do something it just wasn't designed to do. I loved the T-Bolt but it just couldn't do what I wanted it to do, but what it did for 50 years? No complaints. I never missed with it. Seriously. The parts inside the KIDD  that no one but the owner ever sees are just immaculate. Scuttlebutt has it that Tony Kidd stated that he couldn't beat Ruger on cost, but he could beat them on quality. That's what they sell. I wasted a year with the T-Bolt, the KIDD was right there from day one. Again, not a slam against the T-Bolt. If my safe was bigger I never would have sold it. That rifle and I were "mated".

The KIDD trigger? If a trigger can be perfect this one is. When the barreled action came in I talked the folks at the LGS through it to feel it, but without it mounted they just couldn't know. After I assembled things I brought it back and talked them through it. Without that discussion it just feels like a single stage trigger. But talking them through it and having them take their time their eyes lit up. 

Then at the sorta semi indoor range if it isn't busy I let the ROs shoot it. One was a Long range shooter and he was the first to take me up on it. Again, I talked him through the trigger and again, eyes lit up. It wasn't set up for him but he produced a decent 10 shot group. Next time I went back one of the same ROs was there and I offered again. One accepted and told me that he had to try it because the other RO talked about nothing else the rest of the day. He got behind the rifle and I started to talk him through the trigger and I heard it click. "That's why I need to talk you through the trigger. Don't touch it until you're in position and ready to dry fire it.", I told him. Yeah, he got it too. 

The trigger is just superb. No other words for it. Don't like a 2 stage? Just forget it's there and treat it like a single stage, you'll never feel it. But want more? Feel for the wall and then think about the rifle firing and it does. That's the best I can describe it. 

The sorta no wind, sorta semi indoor range... At one time it was a sand pit. Landowner noise complaints were what spurred this range to contain the sound for them. It's where I test ammo. 

https://www.maine.gov/ifw/programs-resources/recreational-opportunities/maine-shooting-ranges/summerhaven.html

[Madhouse]

Very cool rifle, nice shooting!

[BrianK]

Thanks.

I really didn't want to but I played musical scopes with it and another rifle to get something I could use for 25 yard rimfire Appleseed. The KIDD is just too heavy for me to handle today. 30 years ago I might have been able to use it for position shooting but not today. I have another 10/22 but it's set up for fast handling for steel challenge. It's an 8" SBR and has absolutely no holding quality. I practiced and yeah, it sucked. 

But I gave the problem more thought and all of a sudden I had a flash of dimness. One is too heavy, the other not heavy enough. So I put the scope that can go onto the SBR on the KIDD and took the 5-25 and put it on the SBR. That made the SBR >2# heavier and I added another 5 oz muzzle device for more weight. That change made both rifles more like what I wanted.

I sighted them in today and with SK Standard Plus the KIDD was producing 1 hole groups of between 4-10 rounds, 25 yards is nothing for it. And the SBR also had acceptable groups. But it was extremely hot and humid today with no breeze so I cut the range session short. I'll dry fire indoors and figure out which one will go to the Appleseed with me. 

FWIW, the KIDD just looks like a squirrel rifle with the smaller scope but the SBR looks very strange with it's new scope. The 5-25 has much better glass and I miss it. But the KIDD is just "smoother" all 'round. In a short time the scopes will go back where they belong and all will be right in my shooting world once more. 

[98Z5V]

2 hours ago, BrianK said:

something I could use for 25 yard rimfire Appleseed.

I have a deep, deep appreciation, and love, for the Appleseed Program.  

[BrianK]

Yesterday I went to the range after putting the 5-25x scope on the KIDD. I'm considering using the Supergrade design to build a SBR since the required barrel change can happen in seconds. But to have a viable conversion SBR it needs to have optics that can return to zero. That needs to be tested. At 50 yards I was within .2 mil/rads of zero. I dialed in the correction and as it turned out I probably should have waited. I'm pretty sure in under 20 rounds I was back where I started. Oh well!

While I was there and set up I shot a few 10 round groups. Before I left I wanted to shoot my first rimfire shots at 100 yards. Problems... I've run into this before, my scope is bright and on a bright day it's too bright. Yesterday was very bright. I need to find a way to stop down the objective aperture. Working on that. The target I use at 50 yards has a 1/2" bold ring that fits really nicely in the stadia of my reticle. But the same target doesn't work as well at 100 yards. Coupled with the brightness in the scope I was lining up the stadia with other parts of the target. I printed out some better targets with a solid 1" dot. My ballistic app told me to dial in 1.5 m/r of comeups and that worked out. I adjusted the scope to move the group to the left a bit after getting the target in hand. Below is the best I could do.

Anyway, 10 rounds at 100 yards with .22 LR. Centerfire is much easier IMO. But that's the game. 

measurements: Including the flier It's 2" outside to outside. Without the flier its 1 1/4". I think I can do better. Wind wasn't a factor as they were very light and that range is quite wind resistant if there is wind. . It would have been nice if we had a bit of air movement since it was hot and humid. After 2 hours I had enough of the heat and was ready to pack up and leave.

The range (link below) is  public  built with $3,000,000 of Pittman-Robertson tax money. While overseen by the D of F&W it's run by volunteer ROs. Off season it's unusual for me to share the range with anyone and the ROs and I have time to talk. But we're starting to get closer to hunting season and there were people there to keep the ROs busy. Despite that the one RO I see there often called over another RO. "Hey, come over here and try this trigger!. He did and I talked him through it since it's a very light (8 oz/8 oz) 2 stage trigger. It never fails to get grins when the hammer falls and this time was no exception. I suggested he take a few shots but he declined saying that he didn't want to buy another rifle. 

https://www.maine.gov/ifw/programs-resources/recreational-opportunities/maine-shooting-ranges/summerhaven.html

Edited July 28 by BrianK

[unforgiven]

Very good brother 

[BrianK]

On 7/28/2024 at 2:15 PM, unforgiven said:

Very good brother 

I think I can do better but things just keep getting in the way of trigger time. I made (IMO) necessary changes now I just need to try them. One thing I can't change is the old guy behind the trigger.

I also need to zero a T/C Contender .22 barrel that I had threaded, work up a subsonic load for a .32/20 T/C barrel, and cast a mess of 220 grain .308 bullets for the .32/20 and .300 BLK.

But I also made changes in 2 other rifles. The KIDD SG got a new KIDD DLC bolt, and the Ruger Charger Takedown SBR also got one. Why? They wear cans, but if they didn't .22 rimfire is reason enough. Rimfire is filthy and DLC just wipes clean. It's also inherently slick. I expect no issues but I still need to check for reliability. 

Yeah, I know pix or it didn't happen.

The .22 rimfire wears a HK 3 lug adapter. The .32/20 is below. I'll probably get another 3 lug adapter for the .32/20. Both barrels use the same Dead Air Ghost that handles rimfire on up to .45. As long as it's a handgun cartridge or subsonic it handles it. Lotsa pressure is a no-no for the Ghost..

Sorry, the DLC bolts are installed and just look blackish, nothing to see here! But I did a review of the bolts over on RFC.

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/threads/the-kidd-dlc-bolt-a-review.1307691/?post_id=13462612#post-13462612

 

Edited August 24 by BrianK

[BrianK]

Regarding the 100 yard target above... I saw my eye Dr and she told me that I have cataracts that soften my vision. So the vision problems that I was having were at least partially mine. Maybe made worse by the very bright scope? IDK. But I do know that I was told my eyes aren't bad enough yet to get them fixed. Bummer. Next year I'm going to push for the surgery. It's affecting my shooting. 

Ever since I sold my one field rifle, a 50 year old FN Browning T-Bolt, I've missed not having a field rifle. But when I set up the KIDD I did it right. Why? Because the Supergrade is designed to with a quick and easy change barrel. The KIDD Tac' Chassis has a buffer tube for quick change buttstocks. As pictured far above it weighs >12#. Way too heavy to be a field rifle or for offhand shooting IMO (I did try). So I got one of KIDDs ULW barrels for it. I already had everything else required.

The field rifle version with swapped out parts below. The field rifle weighs 6# 8.5ozs with the MFT Minimalist buttstock (VLTOR buttstock seen below). The barrel is said to be just as precise as the heavy barrel and appears to be so in my very limited shooting of it thus far. Of course it's missing the target shooting amenities that help make the target configuration so easy to shoot. I've already tested return to zero and it does. It was stated by other SG owners that changing barrels resulted in no POI shift. I didn't see how that could be and it isn't precisely the same. changing barrels and keeping the same scope on it resulted in about a one inch shift. Not too bad but not a zero shift. I can't see a time when I'd ever want the big scope on the field rifle or the 3-9x scope on the target rifle. So no big deal, just dedicate each scope to the correct barrel. Time to convert from one use to the other? I was in no hurry and had to chase down tools I forgot that I'd need and I did it in 5 1/2 minutes. To help facilitate the parts swap the field scope wears lever type QD mounts, but the 5-25x wears a mount that uses TORX screws at 30 in/lbs. No way around that mount IMO.

[BrianK]

ARRRGH! I wanted to get to the range to better test the new barrel even though my eyes are the weak link in the shooting "system". But when the conditions were "right" I had scheduling conflicts, or we had typical autumn weather, meaning too much wind. Now it's too cold and our snow season has arrived and I freely admit that nowadays I'm just a wuss and don't want to endure the cold that I would have tolerated even a decade ago. The public range remains open all year, but the club I belong to has probably closed the 300 yard range that's down a steep drive. 

But all isn't lost. I'm going to press my eye Dr to get my cataracts fixed before springtime. 

I also converted the rifle into a sort of bastardized target version with the 5-25x scope and buttstock but with the ULW barrel in place since precision shooting is just easier with those add-ons. I want to see what the barrel will do and not what I can tolerate to get good accuracy.