survivalshop Posted February 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Target photo's , I had a few fliers on my part today & breaking in a new rifle with different loadings ,I was more interested in function than groups , although they show potential . I can play around with charge wt. of the IMR 4064 one I remember to take my Chronograph along for the shooting session. All the Barnes Bullets were set to the COL in there Manual , so that can make a difference , my chamber may like a different one, have to do more testing . Even the SMK's with 4064 can use a little tweaking , but I;m confident once this rifle gets a few more rounds through it , I can put it against the 20" to see what happens . I was not to that conclusion a week ago . The fact that I can use PMags is just great. I have to come up with a way or be more vigilant , of the PMags , especially the Gen. 3 , its longer than the Gen. 1 & I keep hitting the bench with it or resting it on the bench & not knowing it . I think its throwing some of my shots off . Brass pile I tested the G2S trigger pull , I had 2# first stage & 1 1/2 # second stage , not whats advertised , but I'll take it <thumbsup> Edited February 11, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 (edited) Geissele said it pertained to DPMS lower's... I wonder if they meant specifically DPMS brand lowers or DPMS pattern lowers. I haven't had any issues with my Giessele SD-E in my MK216 which uses a DPMS pattern lower. I don't think Bubbasks has had any issues with his Geissele High Speed National Match in his DPMS branded lower. Edited February 11, 2014 by FaRKle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 Pretty good brother SS can't get use to that greenery when more than half of the country is covered in snow. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I was in one of the only dry spots around . I wonder if they meant specifically DPMS brand lowers or DPMS pattern lowers. I haven't had any issues with my Giessele SD-E in my MK216 which uses a DPMS pattern lower. I don't think Bubbasks has had any issues with his Geissele High Speed National Match in his DPMS branded lower. May be something with the G2S trigger , because I have the SSA in my other DPMS lower & no problems at all . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 When are the 16" and 20" going head to head again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Well I had problems as you can see, with accuracy with the 16" rifle the way it was built & there would have been no competition between the two right off the bat @ 100 yrds. . I believe I have corrected the problem as has been described in the earlier posts , the fitment of the two unmatched Receivers was the root of the problem, I changed the BCG out because of the wear on the bolt & I had a new BCG siting around , so in it went also. My goal is this spring/summer , not many long range , ranges down here , so getting to one, has to be set up . Should have 200 yards done shortly , after I get some more reload data on IMR 4064 with the rifles . This rifle shot real well with just the MBUS on her @ 100 yards , but putting a scope on , magnified problems with its grouping potential , so I built a new rifle around the 16"HB.. I have a lot going on now that I'm retired & this is just one of them. <laughs> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 SS, that is an awesome update, man! That's some good work, right there. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Hell, 98 , I had to build a new rifle around the 16" HB just to get to use PMags ! <laughs> I have to get some better photo's of the used Bolt lugs , the wear on it is something I have not seen before , looks like the barrel extension locking lugs seated into the Bolt locking lugs . Not rubbed , but indented , I have thought about this , I wish I would have head spaced it before swapping out the Receivers. I can HS it now , with the old BCG ,but I would of liked to see if anything changed since I did the bedding job on the Receivers. I have also noticed that this 16" & for that matter , the 20" seem to shoot better groups with the old WC 846 ball powder than the IMR 4064 , but my development of 4064 is still too early to tell for sure . I believe the IMR 4064 will do much better at loner ranges than the WC 846 , but only further testing will see how that works out . I also have to get some 175 gr. match bullets to set a load for them also.( I've never loaded for them before ) I have about a doz. Barnes Tac X 168 gr. bullets left & will do more testing on them.Not sure if I will ever purchase them again , I had problems loading them & with IMR 4064 , they were compressed loads , which I personally do not care for . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) The Tango Down didn't match up to the DPMS 308 lower too good so, on to the BRO AR 15 lower I have for my next build & while I was at it , the lower was so, naked , I put a new Milspec receiver extension ,Spikes Trigger system & mag release. I loaded some test loads & will take the Chrono & both rifles tomorrow . Edited February 16, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I've been doing some research on long range shooting & I was going to (& have been ) make the same load up for both rifles . I no longer believe I will be getting the most out of the platforms by doing that & will be making the best shooting load for each rifle , if that's the way it turns out I already think the shorter barrel likes the WC846 better than the IMR 4064 . ( might have some thing to do with burn rate/barrel length ?) The 20" doesn't seem to mind ether Powder so far , I believe . My testing tomorrow will give me some better info . Check this one bullet type, I have a few left , shoots very well from the 20". Its a stepped boat tail design, 170 gr. left to right ,168 Hornady,168 SMK, 170 Stepped BT & 168 Barnes Tac X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 I already think the shorter barrel likes the WC846 better than the IMR 4064 . ( might have some thing to do with burn rate/barrel length ?) I think you're right on that - getting a complete burn before the projo exits the barrel. The WC846 is probably doing that, while the 4064 isn't. At least out of the 16". I think it's a good call - make the best round for each rifle, then pit the two different rifles against each other at distance. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) From what I have been reading , the Barnes bullets don't do well at longer ranges , so I may be leaving them out of any testing , for now ,that is . I still have to Chrono them though .They say its some thing about the groves on the bullet , disrupts air flow ? Edited February 19, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Put some Chrono Data in the reloading section today from both rifles. Interesting results , I didn't do any Barnes Bullets . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Shot both rifles @ 200 yards today with the 175 gr. Nosler Match bullets with 39.5 gr. of IMR 4064 in the 20" & 40.0 gr. IMR 4064 in the 16" . Both rifles shot the same , both about the same groupings . I will take a photo of the target that I used for the fist shot stings after dialing both scopes in & also the last shot string , just to see if there was a difference between a some what cool barrel & a completely warm barrel after shooting in 85 deg. for a while . Groups could have ben better & I blame me & not rife/ammo , I have shot better at 200 with 168 gr. SMK bullets . I also shot my Heart Doctors CMMG 308 with an 18" barrel ( i think its 18" ) with my ammo & shot about the same as with my rifles. Good to see the tightening of his barrel nut , that was loose from the factory , is making MOA groupings & he was very happy . I have to set up to go to another range to shoot over 200 yards & up . I've never been to this range before & will have to check it out first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 I like the results. You've put alot of time into this, and it's damn good data. <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 You have put alot of time into this and have come out with alot of good info.Thanks brother. :hethan: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.R.D. Posted April 6, 2014 Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 Yes, great stuff! It will be investing to see how velocity plays into the mix with the different barrel lengths at longer ranges, if at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 The groups here show me a couple of things , I shot much better than this with 168 SMK 's , out of the 20" bbl. before . This is the first time @ 200 yards with the 16" bbl.. It seems I may be doing some more load development, I think I want to get some more velocity & will make various loadings at higher velocities just to see how they do @ 200. These loads I used were the best in ES & SD , that may or may not be what is needed to get this bullet out further. I guess this is why we test this stuff . I also wonder how the 168 match bullets would have matched up to these groups , I didn't have any with me , something that won't happen again. . I know one thing that made the last groups to open up a hair , is the sweat rolling into my eye's & my glass's fogging up , did not help . I also didn't dial the 16 " bbl. to center the groups, because I am not sure if this loading is the final set up . I want to play around some more at 200 yards. I also picked up some IMR 4895 , which Nolser reloading data reads 39.5 gr.'s is the one they found most accurate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Good thread. Thanks for the information. Just for the heck of it I am going to set up a comparison between the AR10 A4 20 inch barrel I have and an AR10 T 16 inch target barrel I have on order. It is kinda apples to oranges, since they are not the same model, but I know the 20 " is extremely accurate. It is kind of a comparison between length and thickness and which affects accuracy more. Armalite says the AR10 A4 should shoot 1.5-2 MOA and the AR10T carbine 1 MOA. Wjth the nut behind the gun, we will see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 It is kind of a comparison between length and thickness and which affects accuracy more.It might be a bit of a stretch to draw any conclusions on length and thickness and which offers a larger contribution to accuracy considering one of your barrels is 416R stainless steel and the other is chrome-lined 4140 steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 This sounds like a length vs girth type of thing. Couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 It might be a bit of a stretch to draw any conclusions on length and thickness and which offers a larger contribution to accuracy considering one of your barrels is 416R stainless steel and the other is chrome-lined 4140 steel. didnt say it would be scientific, more an excuse to shoot off a few rounds in both of them. As far as length and girth, it is best to have both. I'm just sayin....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 This sounds like a length vs girth type of thing. Couldn't resist. <laughs> <lmao> I knew it was gonna hit... :yup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 That's one of those I knew I was in trouble the moment I said it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted May 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Well it seems there are no 1K ranges around me , so finding what these rifles will do at that range is not going to happen, unless I come across something & that's got me thinking about my bullet selection . If I'm not shooting past 600yards( longest in my area , an hour or two away ) , why even work up any more loadings with a 175 gr. bullet . I'm going to continue with 168 gr. bullets if for any reason then I have already got load & target data for this bullet in both rifles & they have much better groupings @ 200 yards . Granted , I have not settled on a good load for the 175's yet & will take some new loads with IMR 4895 , which the Nosler data of 39.5 gr charge reads are the most accurate , we will see . I will be doing some Chrono data this weekend . Damn ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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