10 mm pistol

[sketch]

Weight might be an issue if hiking ? At least you can throw a 10 mm harder than a DE 50 ;)

[Robocop1051]

The .500 (with the comp) isn't all that bad... If you stay under 325 grains. I've seen them as high as 600 grain, but that'd scare the bajeezus out of me.

My Super Blackhawk would do the job just fine too.

[MONTANA308]

There is nothing wrong with the big bore hand cannons I have a 6in smith 629 in 44 mag love the gun but I bet I can at least get 3 to 1 off on my 10 compared to the 44. Running the 10 near 41mag ballistics I think its a pretty good balance between power and controlability There are set more superior hand cannons out there but I like the balance the 10 gives me.

[gnatshooter]

Are y'all saying that any pistol big enough to kill a bear is gonna hurt you when you shoot it?

[unforgiven]

Following this , if it was me I'd use a revolver instead of a semi-auto to take the chance of a malfuction out of the equation.In one one the large calibers mentioned.Just my 2 mags.

[Robocop1051]

Are y'all saying that any pistol big enough to kill a bear is gonna hurt you when you shoot it?

Not at all. I think most of those are easy shooters. The size of the gun (especially the S&W) takes away from the bite of the big bore. My .44 mag Super Blackhawk is one of my favorite shooters, and I'm not that big (5'10" 185#). I love the 4.5" .500 mag, but can't justify the cost of ammo. Getting a .45 ACP rechambered to .460 Rowland, and then shooting either load, seems the best idea and most affordable.

[greenmist]

"What do you think about the recoil of the 10mm? Supposedly it's brutal and nasty."

 

Not with the Gen 3 S&W 10mms: 1006, 1026, 1076. They are a heavier pistol with appropriate (RSAs) recoil spring assemblies from the factory.

And that's the trade off against Glocks, which are quite a bit lighter, but it's a tough comparo. as result of ammo capacity differences and Glocks are double-stack, blahblahblah...

 

Go to Wolff Springs online and you can find very affordable (RSA) 3 packs: 3 different spring rates to try in your pistol of choice. Most factory 10mm ammo today is not a whole lot more "kick" than your average .40. At 110 pounds you simply need to practice, and work on your stance and grip with a decent Instructor. 

 

 

If you wanted to get some hot 10mm there's anyone from Underwood to Buffalo Bore making really good stuff. However, mind you, all we have around here are black bear and big cats. As Robo mentioned above, if it's Grizz country, IIRC the 460 Rowland revolvers can run how many different calibers? 3? 460/454/45LC? You should obviously just buy 3 pistols and start your research... <dontknow>  

[unforgiven]

For bears,shotty with slugs and revolver.Just my 2 mags.

[MONTANA308]

My wife worked on the bear team in glacier national park. They carried 12ga with slugs. Had a bear get hit by a train and broke its back. They where looking for the bear and it lunged at her in some deep brush. She said the slugs would just ricocheted right off his forehead.

[Microgunner]

I'll have a nice Colts Delta Elite that I can make you a good deal on in about 6 weeks.

[unforgiven]

My wife worked on the bear team in glacier national park. They carried 12ga with slugs. Had a bear get hit by a train and broke its back. They where looking for the bear and it lunged at her in some deep brush. She said the slugs would just ricocheted right off his forehead.

Very surpised to hear that brother.Is thier a better shotgun round to use ??

[Dane Armory]

Can you still get splitter/shredder 12ga rounds. Had a couple boxes in the 1980's , that was a modified slug that split into four pieces. It torn up fridges and trees.

[Tripledeuce]

   First gun bought should be a 22.   Just my 2 cents.

 

   Respectfully

    Terry

[MONTANA308]

Oh I think a slug is probably as good as anything they ended up killing it with anther slug just not to the forehead. And who knows what angle she was firing. It was point blank though. Bear spray really works very well i think its probley your best first line of defense. granted you will never catch me only carrying bear spray.

When my daughter was 3months old The wife and ran into a male grizzly up in Glacier while hiking. He was about 25yards above us on the trail and huffing at us. The wind was all was all wrong for pepper spray and was afraid it would cause my daughter to quit breathing. Everything worked out he followed us for a bit and then went on his marry way. In this case lead would've been my choice. Like I said I carry bolth.

[planeflyer21]

I gather from the original post your son isn't looking for something to hunt bear with, but something to stop bear with while not hunting…correct?

 

And in Iowa, we're talking about black bear.

 

10mm will serve him just fine.  Especially if they are Mikerized 10mm loads!   :hethan:

[gnatshooter]

I gather from the original post your son isn't looking for something to hunt bear with, but something to stop bear with while not hunting…correct?

 

And in Iowa, we're talking about black bear.

 

10mm will serve him just fine.  Especially if they are Mikerized 10mm loads!   :hethan:

 

You're exactly right. He hunts Minnesota black bears when they are in season, using a 7mm 08. This pistol would be for stopping bears behaving badly whilst camping in Minnesota.

 

I'm not familiar with Mikerized ammo.

[MONTANA308]

Im going have to try these MIKERIEZED 10mm loads. I just picked up pound of the new CFE 223 pistol looking forward to trying it

[planeflyer21]

After the recoil spring kit upgrade thr recoil is managable. I have a 23lb spring in my Witness and cycleling issues occur before recoil overpowering happens. I have played with 180gr rounds at 1300fps and 200gr rounds at 1200fps. If the rounds are too hot the brass won't eject or the next round won't chamber. And those rounds are not painfulto shoot.

 

/\/\/\/\ Mikerized

[gnatshooter]

I just been running the G29sf with the rod and 21lbs recoil spring ghost 3.5 connector. I bought this gun for bear country. Where my cabin is located has the highest concentration of grizzly bears in the lower 48. Not to mention the lions and wolves. They are in the front yard of cabin often. Im a firm believer in bear spray first and if that dont work start throwing lead. Cant beat the 10mm get some Underwood ammo and carry on

 

He's looking at a unit like this at Rock Island Armory. When trying to reduce recoil, do you get a stiffer spring, or a milder spring? It looks like different springs are available, but I don't see how a stiffer spring would reduce recoil.

[Dane Armory]

Im going have to try these MIKERIEZED 10mm loads. I just picked up pound of the new CFE 223 pistol looking forward to trying it

WOW ... Really.

Well IMR 800X is the powder of choice. MUST hand weigh each load !

Look up the 10mm reloading thread on AR15.com . Mike McNutt of DoubleTap Ammo had a lot of input.

You will have to taylor the load to your gun. I have summer and winter loads. The winter loads will jam in the summer and could over power the gun.

180gr projectile going 1250fps are about the safe upper limit on the 10mm rounds !

Read a lot before you try this at home.

[MONTANA308]

Ya my LGS put a order in for me when I first heard about it.They got a few lbs in the other day. Ill keep an eye out for the 800x thanks mike

[Microgunner]

Gnarshooter said.

but I don't see how a stiffer spring would

reduce recoil.

The stiffer spring stores more energy and then releases it as foward movement of the slide. This is energy the shooter doesn't have to absorb.

The stiffer spring requires a hotter load to cycle reliably and the increased forward velocity of the slide accelerates wear slightly.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Microgunner

[gnatshooter]

Gnarshooter said.

but I don't see how a stiffer spring would

reduce recoil.

The stiffer spring stores more energy and then releases it as foward movement of the slide. This is energy the shooter doesn't have to absorb.

The stiffer spring requires a hotter load to cycle reliably and the increased forward velocity of the slide accelerates wear slightly.

 

Hmmm... so with standard factory rounds, there's no point to a stiffer spring?

 

Edit: P.S. I've shot +P and +P+ from my 9mm and all I could think of was how it was beating the crap out of my really nice pistol. It really slammed the slide and... well, slammed up my arm and it was d*mned unpleasant. So when I say standard factory rounds, that means, no +P etc. If this was my pistol I was shopping for, etc., I'd go with standard-velocity JHP. Like someone else said here, 9mm is "smooth" to shoot, and that's what I would want to expect.

 

Maybe that's asking too much. Some guys enjoy recoil, and me, I like something that lets me feel like the pistol is an extension of my hand, and not something that wants to jump away or knock my on my ass.

Edited May 7, 2014 by gnatshooter

[Microgunner]

May or may not be reliable. Pretty cheap to find out.

If you're not jerking the shots the pistol will tell you if the spring is correct. If after the shot the muzzle is tipped upward the spring is too light. If after the shot the muzzle is tipped downward the spring is too heavy. You want the sights back on target after the shot.

Jerking the shot or limp wristing will skew these results.

[RadioGuy]

Hello!

 

As the aforementioned son who bear hunts and new forum member, I wanted to say thank you for all the replies in this thread and the discussion it has generated.

 

I wanted to post and clear some things up and ask some questions of my own. To start off, I totally agree with Brushawg that a handgun is not the ideal Bear gun for a hunting scenario, and as gnatshooter mentioned I use a 7mm 08 while on stand, although I am looking into replacing this, which is a totally different discussion. For me bear hunting is exclusively a northern Minnesota activity, which means Black Bears, Timber Wolves, and the occasional large cat. I also want to agree with Tripledeuce that shot placement is king, and I am just as sure that he would agree that some guns are better for different jobs than others. The 10mm discussion gnatshooter and I were having was originally focused on the issues of ideal weapon for a unplanned encounter with a Black Bear. I originally started looking for said weapon after an experience I had during the last season, while I was helping my father-in-law retrieve his bear, and another bear came in while we were pulling the first up a hill. The bear that came in started huffing at us in an attempt to scare us off the carcass and nearby bait pile. Our guns were back at the wheelers because pulling 300+ pounds of dead weight through a swamp is a two handed effort. Having a sidearm in a holster at that point would have been comforting to say the least.

 

With regards to caliber and recoil, I'm a small guy with small hands, and so I need to consider what's comfortable to shoot so that I don't resent getting the practice in that results in the good shot placement that Tripledeuce mentioned. This limits my ability to entertain the idea of the larger 'hand cannons'. Also, in other forums I have seen a lot of discussion of penetration vs energy transfer, and in those discussions the people who talk about large game tend to emphasize penetration due to the fact that, compared to a human being, there is simply more tissue for the bullet to travel through, not to mention thicker bone, as MONTANA308 did. It's also interesting to me that of those who say that they actually carry for similar reasons seem to mention the 10mm auto more than any other single round, and that's not just based on sketch's comment. Could be wrong on that though. Also fun fact: The Slædepatruljen Sirius (Sirius Sledge Patrol) in Daneborg, Greenland carry Glock 20s for Polar Bear protection.

 

I did also want to respond to unforgiven and the idea of a revolver. While I have read that the reliability of revolvers is better, I must be honest and say that's it's not really my style, nor is the Glock. I have shot a few 1911's, and one Glock, and I must say I just like the look and feel of the 1911s. The presence of a safety is also reassuring since I plan to carry in fairly dense brush.

 

I appriciate all of the attention this has generated, and I will be reading as posts continue. Feel free to ask me about how I plan to use whatever I end up getting, but I'm guessing that I'll spend more time reading and learning than commenting. If you have read this far, thanks for that too, I realize that this has turned into a book.

 

TL;DR: May need to defend against accidental black bears in the woods, governments issue 10mm auto for polar bear protection

Edit: So I realized that I totally forgot to ask a question: This is obviously an issue of balancing priorities, how do you guys go about doing that/what considerations do you make when choosing a gun for a job like this one?

Edited May 7, 2014 by RadioGuy