BHW Barrel Tight Chamber?

[Owl21]

I have one of the commonly found Black Hole Weaponry 18" 1:11 .308 barrels installed on an Aero M5 set. At this point it does not seem to matter what factory ammo I chamber, the unfired rounds must be mortared to eject.

 

The rifle is unfired to this point, so I have no other information that might relate if fired.

 

So far I have tried Federal GMM 175, German DAG, and Winchester White Box, and all must be mortared to eject. All of the rounds would chamber normally from the magazine, and the Surplus Arms NiB bolt carrier rides smoothly.

 

If I hand chamber a round into the barrel and press firmly, it only takes a small bump for it to fall free of the chamber. If I let the BCG slam home on the round from the bolt catch, it must be mortared to remove.

 

Is anyone else having this issue with one of the BHW barrels? I have never experienced this with any of my 5.56 BHW barrels.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Owl21

[warthog984]

What do the rounds look like when they come out?  Did the barrel headspace to the bolt?  Can you remove the extractor and ejector and try it? 

[Owl21]

What do the rounds look like when they come out?  Did the barrel headspace to the bolt?  Can you remove the extractor and ejector and try it? 

 

The rounds look fine. There are some minor scrapes (not gouges) on the brass from where they pass over the ramps. The barrel and bolt came from the same place, but I have not headspaced it yet...still waiting on the guages.

[FaRKle!]

Hows the BCG extractor tension?

 

My friend's cousin unfortunately bought a Blackthorne POS upper group last year that I fixed recently. Aside from the gas block not being aligned with the gas port, the weapon had an FTE more than 75% of the time. I took apart the BCG (really shitty machining and the cam track was too tight in some areas) and they had put an AR-15 extractor spring in there without an o-ring or insert. The tension was incredibly light. I replaced the extractor spring assembly and it fixed the FTE issue.

[warthog984]

I bought a 204 ruger barrel from Shilen a few years back.  It came with the bolt.  I did not headspace it because it was advertised as matched to the barrel.  I had similar issues as you mentioned.  I ended up sending the barrel back to further reamed.  The guy from Shilen told me his gauges may have been a little off and was requesting new headspace gauges.  After that I went out and bought a set of 204 ruger gauges for myself.

[Toolndie7]

The rounds look fine. There are some minor scrapes (not gouges) on the brass from where they pass over the ramps. The barrel and bolt came from the same place, but I have not headspaced it yet...still waiting on the guages.

 

Cant really address anything until you check headspace properly with gauges.  That would be priority one.

[survivalshop]

  Need to check head space , just to make sure the chamber is good . I have found that the NIB Bolts are all tight at first , even head spacing . Lube it all up & cycle the action a whole bunch of times , over & over & clean & re-check operation .

[survivalshop]

Well !

[edgecrusher]

Headspace it when your gauges come in, then if need be polish or ream

[Tim96460]

Good day all, First post and want to say thanks for all the info because it really helped me with my build.

I've the same barrel and the same happened to me. Head space fine.   I run hand loads what I did was make a few dummies. I would rack about 10-15 times then clean and lube for about 5 or 6 times now all is well.  I like so far what the first time out this last weekend has produced.

 

Tim

Suisun, CA

[EasyEJL]

My chamber in a rainier was tight as well, but as it headspaced fine I just went ahead and ran a few hundred rounds through. had the occasional FTE during the first 150-200 rounds but then after that it was smooth

[Robocop1051]

[survivalshop]

 Not fair showing tools , this is a family forum . <laughs>

[edgecrusher]

This thread has been cleaned up, let's keep it that way for other members or future members who can use it for their benefit

[Owl21]

Since my .308 gauges have not yet arrived, I have not been able to headspace this barrel bolt. But I was notified yesterday morning by one of my manufacturers that they were dropping BHW as the supplier of their custom proprietary profiled barrels due to the fact that "[we had] too many issues to fix in each shipment." It was nagging at me, so I pulled the barrel to inspect it more closely, and this is what I found:

 

1. It was coated inside and out in black machine oil. I spent nearly 20 minutes cleaning this from both the inside and outside of the barrel. (I never had this occurrence with any of the other BHW barrels, or barrels from any other mfg.)

2. During cleaning, fibers from the patches, swabs, and bore snake kept getting pulled off at the gas port. (Something else I have never experienced before.)

3. The chamber is dull. It has no shine or reflectivity, unlike every other barrel I posses.

4. Just look at the picture of the extension, which is from only 20ish cycles of the BCG.

 

There is also a photo of the bore to show the visibility of the gas port. In person it looks a bit ragged.

 

I think this is getting returned and will be replaced with a Rainier UltraMatch 16"

 

 

Edited August 23, 2014 by Owl21

[edgecrusher]

I think that will be an upgrade you can appreciate immediately

[Robocop1051]

It looks like someone is getting lazy in their mfg process... it's a race to the bottom.

[survivalshop]

Melonite process barrel ?  Inside & out ?

I vigorously clean & inspect any barrel before installing. The heavy oil could have caused chambering /head space problems . 

 

The tools shown by Robocop11051 would have helped before assembly .

[Owl21]

Melonite process barrel ?  Inside & out ?

I vigorously clean & inspect any barrel before installing. The heavy oil could have caused chambering /head space problems . 

 

The tools shown by Robocop11051 would have helped before assembly .

 

It is not a melonited barrel. It was definitely black, gritty machine oil.

 

I generally clean them after installation (except for the exterior of the barrel extension), and have never had a problem with any barrel I have purchased. In this case, the barrel still has a very tight chamber after cleaning.

 

As for the tools suggested by Robocop, I am not inclined to fix what I consider to be a manufacturer's issue. Of course, maybe this is normal in 308AR's, and I just do not know it. I am comparing my first 308AR build to seven previous years of AR15 builds without any similar issues.

[Robocop1051]

I just checked out the BHW website. it looks like they don't do the melonite treatment anymore. All their bbls were listed as 416 stainless.

They sure are proud of their product. They have damn near Noveske prices now.

[survivalshop]

It is not a melonited barrel. It was definitely black, gritty machine oil.

 

I generally clean them after installation (except for the exterior of the barrel extension), and have never had a problem with any barrel I have purchased. In this case, the barrel still has a very tight chamber after cleaning.

 

As for the tools suggested by Robocop, I am not inclined to fix what I consider to be a manufacturer's issue. Of course, maybe this is normal in 308AR's, and I just do not know it. I am comparing my first 308AR build to seven previous years of AR15 builds without any similar issues.

   

   No not normal for any AR barrel , but inspecting them inside & out before they are installed is . You can have all sorts of machining shavings & oil in them . You never know . Just like having machining chips in detent holes of lower receivers, it happens , a lot .

   The barrel assembly is very easy to inspect , before its installed on the upper receiver & you get what you pay for & in the case of BHW barrels , you get extra's   & at a high price .

   As far as returning it , that your call , maybe you don't want it any longer , that's fine . You say its a tight barrel or chamber , well its not a factory built rifle with matched factory components & if its tight , as I have said , its probably the NIB bolt causing it & will break in with a round count of fired rounds shot through it . 

  You have not done the proper procedure for barrel mounting , Head Spacing , so there is no way you can say this barrel is out of spec's , just the way it is . I have also said that NIB coated bolts show some tight head spacing tolerances , because of there coating , depends on the manufacturer or NIB coater .

  I normally head space my barrels when they are out of the receiver , because I know I'm checking with out the weight or spring pressure on the HS gage , make them last longer . It doesn't take much to skew up a HS gage & is why I would never use a HS gage set that went around the world as a group tool .

 

 

 Here is a 308 NIB bolt & head space gage in barrel .

[Owl21]

   No not normal for any AR barrel , but inspecting them inside & out before they are installed is . You can have all sorts of machining shavings & oil in them . You never know . Just like having machining chips in detent holes of lower receivers, it happens , a lot .

   The barrel assembly is very easy to inspect , before its installed on the upper receiver & you get what you pay for & in the case of BHW barrels , you get extra's   & at a high price .

   As far as returning it , that your call , maybe you don't want it any longer , that's fine . You say its a tight barrel or chamber , well its not a factory built rifle with matched factory components & if its tight , as I have said , its probably the NIB bolt causing it & will break in with a round count of fired rounds shot through it . 

  You have not done the proper procedure for barrel mounting , Head Spacing , so there is no way you can say this barrel is out of spec's , just the way it is . I have also said that NIB coated bolts show some tight head spacing tolerances , because of there coating , depends on the manufacturer or NIB coater .

  I normally head space my barrels when they are out of the receiver , because I know I'm checking with out the weight or spring pressure on the HS gage , make them last longer . It doesn't take much to skew up a HS gage & is why I would never use a HS gage set that went around the world as a group tool .

 

 

 Here is a 308 NIB bolt & head space gage in barrel .

DSCN1993.JPG

 

Thanks for the information. After talking with a friend about it for a while, I have decided to use this barrel as a learning tool, especially since I bought it at wholesale price. The value of learning something from it will exceed the price I paid for it.

 

Once the gauges show up (thankfully later this week), I will post any of my learning eperiences here, good or bad, so that others can hopefully learn for free.

[98Z5V]

 

 

I will post any of my learning eperiences here, good or bad, so that others can hopefully learn for free.

 

Most of us learned this a long time ago, and we pass this information on to the other members of this board, freely - to those that will listen.  That is the very reason this board exists, in the first place.

[Owl21]

Most of us learned this a long time ago, and we pass this information on to the other members of this board, freely - to those that will listen.  That is the very reason this board exists, in the first place.

 

I agree, considering that I own and run two forums (not associated with firearms). But in a search here, I did not find any historical negative/relavent contributions relating to my particular issues, though I am sure they probably exist.

 

As with any forum, new members not accustomed to different search and logging algorithims will not always be able to find the information they may be seeking, so newer posts on the same topics can somtimes be beneficial, though annoyingly redundant for more tenured members. ::)

[98Z5V]

Thanks for that lesson on how forums work.  <thumbsup>