blue builds a pistol. considers SBR.

[blue109]

I just really want a FDE cav arms A1 stock on it. :( I get these pictures in my head, and after the dust settles there is no other way. it just has to end up that way, even if it takes a while.

[98Z5V]

I just really want a FDE cav arms A1 stock on it. :(

 

Just the stock, or the whole lower, brother?  These are the guys now - GWACS Armory:

 

http://www.gwacsarmory.com/

[MONTANA308]

Here is what I got so far! Waiting on my 11.5 in McGowen 1/8 twist carbine gas. After that haven't decided on muzzle brake or optics. Been looking at the Aimpoint T-1

Si defense upper and lower

Nemo Arms 9in rail

Black rain ordnance LPK

Sig FDE pistole brace kit

Slash's HSS heavy buffer

Magpul fwd grip

[blue109]

nice Montana...but I think my whole build so far came in less than the retail on a T1 :D

those cav/ lowers are cool, but I wouldn't want to blow a stamp on one.

Edited September 9, 2014 by blue109

[98Z5V]

content removed

 

 

Get that grip off that pistol.  Fast.

Edited September 9, 2014 by 98Z5V

[Robocop1051]

Get that grip off that pistol. Fast.

He's ok if his total overall length is greater than 26".

Batfe says a pistol must be under 26"... but it's not a rifle if it doesn't have rifle features (stock)... so if it's too long to be a pistol, lacks the rifle features, and obviously isn't a shotgun, then it falls under the definition of just "firearm" which is allowed a forward grip.

If his OAL is -26".... He'd better erase that post.

[Robocop1051]

The gun will be measured from the tip of the barrel (the muzzle device only counts if it's pinned/welded) to the tip of the receiver extension (the brace will not be measured).

[MONTANA308]

Thanks you 98 and Robo for looking out and for the info. I measured it this morning it's GTG. I'll get rid of the one part to be on the safe side. When the barrel comes ill remeasure to double check and go from there. Thanks again.

[98Z5V]

You can't make a pistol build come to 26" or over with the 11.5" barrel, it's short of it.  Unless your muzzle device is pinned.  The measurement is from the end of the bare barrel (unless pinned) to the end of the receiver extension.

 

If it ultimately comes up under 26", with the grip, you've made an AOW - without appropriate paperwork.  If it DOES come up over 26", then it's just in the "firearm" category, and that grip would be okay.

Edited September 9, 2014 by 98Z5V

[Robocop1051]

Most of the >26" builds I've seen are with 12.5" barrels... Although if you were to pin/weld a behemoth length muzzle device (such as the KX3 or KX5) you could likely get all the way down to a 10.5" barrel... depending on your receiver extension.

[Robocop1051]

Angled Foregrips are okay on pistol builds... If that's your thing. A "forward mounted pistol grip" is defined as being able to wrap your thumb around the grip. The Magpul AFG (and all the similar knock-off products) is commonly used by shooters.

[MONTANA308]

Thanks guys again for the info. I won't be putting anything up front for awhile. Till I get the barrel. And then more then likely just a weapons mounted light!

[shibiwan]

Wait, I believe if it's registerd/built as a pistol, the 26" requirement becomes exempt. If it's an SBR, then it would matter....

[blue109]

see if I understand this:

if it's a registered SBR, length or accessories shouldn't matter. if it's a pistol under 26 with a VFG, than it's an unregistered SBR and you got problems. if it's over 26" and doesn't have a stock, it's just a firearm. not a rifle or pistol so the VFG is ok.

[98Z5V]

Wait, I believe if it's registerd/built as a pistol, the 26" requirement becomes exempt. If it's an SBR, then it would matter....

 

To a degree - the 26" restriction is there on pistol builds.  If it's registered and built as a pistol, the 26" restriction is very, very much in effect - nothing exempt at all about the 26". Once you cross the 26" length, it's not considered "concealable" in the eyes of the ATF, therefore it is not a pistol anymore.  It's simply a "Firearm."  There's no restriction on what you can add to a Registered SBR.  Pick your barrel length, pick your furniture, whatever you want on the basic SBR itself. 

 

see if I understand this:

if it's a registered SBR, length or accessories shouldn't matter. if it's a pistol under 26 with a VFG, than it's an unregistered SBR AOW and you got problems. if it's over 26" and doesn't have a stock, it's just a firearm. not a rifle or pistol so the VFG is ok.

 

^^^ Blue nailed it.

Edited September 10, 2014 by 98Z5V

[shibiwan]

Right, but if it is registered as a pistol, there is no minimum overall length.... or did I read the rules wrong. (I know about the VFG restriction on pistols).

[98Z5V]

No minimum overall length, but once a pistol hits the 26" mark, BATFE says it can't be easily concealed, and it ceases to be a "pistol" anymore, based on the "easily concealed" criteria.  Once it crosses 26", it then just becomes "Firearm" - not "pistol" anymore.

 

You can put a vertical foregrip on a "Firearm," but you cannot put a vertical foregrip on a "pistol." 

 

That's the difference between the two. 

 

Also, by "registered," are you talking about the 4473 block that you check?  Or are you talking about registration, like local and state laws?

 

Any stripped lower that goes on a 4473 should now be checked as "Other."  It's a stripped receiver - it's not a pistol and it's not a rifle.  It's just "Other" on the form now.

[planeflyer21]

Hhmmm...what about the addition of a bipod, ala 10/22 Charger pistol?

[blue109]

oh! and the GGG bipod is designed to be used as a makeshift vfg when deployed.

[EasyEJL]

There's no restriction on what you can add to a Registered SBR.  Pick your barrel length, pick your furniture, whatever you want on the basic SBR itself.

I was talking to someone, and although he's a class 3 dealer, I think he was full of poop. The conversation was about filling in the caliber block on the form 1. What he said was that after you filled in a particular caliber, although you could change the upper on the SBR to another caliber legally, you had to retain the original upper or at least some upper in the original caliber that went on the form 1. I think he's full of poop. its the lower that is registered, and having more than 1 upper in an SBR config with only having one lower that is SBR'd seems like a BATF arrest waiting to happen (assuming you have any full size ARs)

[edgecrusher]

What he said was that after you filled in a particular caliber, although you could change the upper on the SBR to another caliber legally, you had to retain the original upper or at least some upper in the original caliber that went on the form 1. I think he's full of shit. its the lower that is registered, and having more than 1 upper in an SBR config with only having one lower that is SBR'd seems like a BATF arrest waiting to happen (assuming you have any full size ARs)

If I read this correctly, you are mistaken. You can have multiple uppers. No reason you can't. But sure as shit you better have some paperwork for a lower. This is my plan for my 5.56. Still waiting for my stamp but it'll start with 7.5 diplomat upper, then I'm going to build a 11.5, and maybe long term a 300blk (fuck you instigators!)

As far as I'm aware this is ok. But don't assemble any uppers until your stamp is in hand.

[blue109]

so if shib engraved my lower with the proper SBR nonsense, do I have to use that lower for the SBR only? can that lower be on a pistol/rifle build while I wait? or if I decide against ever making an SBR?

[EasyEJL]

If I read this correctly, you are mistaken. You can have multiple uppers. No reason you can't. But sure as poop you better have some paperwork for a lower. This is my plan for my 5.56. Still waiting for my stamp but it'll start with 7.5 diplomat upper, then I'm going to build a 11.5, and maybe long term a 300blk (fornicate you instigators!)

As far as I'm aware this is ok. But don't assemble any uppers until your stamp is in hand.

yeah, its just that the ATF can be dicks, so if they see a non-sbr lower with no upper, and you have short barreled uppers stored in the same place, they probably could do something, even if you have an SBR lower. But more what I was wondering about was whether the ATF cares or has any sort of legal jurisdiction on you changing the caliber of the upper to something that doesn't match what the SBR was originally registered as, and whether it matters if you keep the upper that was the original caliber. So say you register as 5.56, then decide you want it to be a 300 blackout instead and build another upper, then sell the 5.56 upper.

[shibiwan]

so if shib engraved my lower with the proper SBR nonsense, do I have to use that lower for the SBR only? can that lower be on a pistol/rifle build while I wait? or if I decide against ever making an SBR?

 

Taking a pistol lower and using that to build a rifle is fine. However, the ATF doesn't allow the reverse (i.e. a registered rifle lower to be converted to a pistol). Your best bet is "other".

 

Also, by "registered," are you talking about the 4473 block that you check?  Or are you talking about registration, like local and state laws?

 

Any stripped lower that goes on a 4473 should now be checked as "Other."  It's a stripped receiver - it's not a pistol and it's not a rifle.  It's just "Other" on the form now.

 

Tom's correct, that and the A&D (acquisition and disposal) logbooks. If it gets entered into the A&D records as a pistol or rifle, it gets registered as such and is reflected in the 4473. NFA follows  too (with the addtitional form 2). You're right that if it's a stripped "other" lower the end buyer can do whatever he wants to the lower without worry (unless they reside in Commiefornia, then it gets tricky). 

 

Once an extension tube is installed on the lower, it becomes a rifle or pistol (dependent on which extension tube is installed) and if it's sold in that state, the record books need to log them as such.

Edited September 10, 2014 by shibiwan

[blue109]

that's why I have pics of all of my lowers with a pistol extension on them ;)