Zedex Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I was breaking in and sighting in my new rifle today, following DPMS instruction for barrel break in and running the bolt and carrier well lubed as I've been told. Things were going well, getting scope dialed in, getting used to bench shooting again. Had a couple failure to feed issues when I switched to the magpul Pmags. But before I could figure out the feeding failures, the failed in a more exciting way. The bolt froze solid (couldn't move it with the charging handle) about an inch from closed leaving the fresh round just rattling loose in the chamber. I had to take the buffer tube off to get the upper and lower apart so I could get everything loose. As I slid the bolt out, the ejector just rolled out onto the table. And I found this: You can't see it well, but the pin that holds the ejector in place apparently worked itself out. Or perhaps it broke from the inside. I'm still not really clear how it got hung up, but you could clearly see the pin poking down towards the magazine well before I took everything apart. I'm guessing the other side of this pin was jammed into the upper receiver, I forgot to look at the upper for signs of scratching. I'm new to these guns (and ARs in general). Is this something that happens once in a while? Or am I just a lucky guy who had a tiny roll pin fail after 42 rounds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 That's different.to take off the ejector takes 3 hands.Although I found that if you get an empty case and hook it under the extractor and lever down to push ejector in to remove pin.At that point the pin had to be tapped with a small punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted November 23, 2014 Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 I can't imagine a freeze that would prevent an upper and lower from being able to be separated... I'll bet that your ejector spring either crushed or disintegrated prematurely. I don't see it there in your pile of parts. I don't recognize the light spot on your bolt. Is that a scratch or a burn? What do your primers look like on your brass? Did you pop any primers? Are you shooting NATO mil surplus or reloads?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zedex Posted November 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) The only reason the upper and lower couldn't be fully separated is because the bolt carrier was stuck about an inch from closed, meaning the carrier was still protruding into the buffer tube far enough to prevent the upper and lower from falling free from each other. I removed the buffer tube so that I could tap the bolt carrier (no forward assist) and get everything loose. I was afraid to put much force on the bolt carrier until I had thing apart far enough to look at things clearly. No reloads, no surplus. Ammo was commercial Turkish made ZQI (ZQ1?) ammo off the shelf at Walmart. All primers are fine. You are right, the ejector spring isn't in the photos, but it was present and undamaged. I think the light spot seen in the photos is a lighting or photographic illusion. It doesn't look like that as it sits here before me. Just smooth black steel like the rest of the bolt. I had a local gunsmith replace the pin and he put some very light "staking" on it to discourage future unintended movement. I don't know how long the the roll pin is supposed to be, so I don't know if there is a fragment missing from it, but he didn't seem to thing so. I didn't think to check the roof of the upper receiver to see if the pin was scratching on the 'ceiling' in there; at the time of the incident the protrusion you see in the photos was pointing downward towards the mag well. Edited November 23, 2014 by Zedex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Zedex, with a jam like that you can separate the upper and lower by pulling both takedown pins, no need to remove the buffer tube! I have the same rifle and I've never had a problem like that, nor with any of my AR-15's. I would say that's a pretty rare occurrence! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Zedex, with a jam like that you can separate the upper and lower by pulling both takedown pins, no need to remove the buffer tube! I have the same rifle and I've never had a problem like that, nor with any of my AR-15's. I would say that's a pretty rare occurrence! Not always. I had a popped primer once that jammed in the buffer retainer detent track of the BCG that prevented me from getting the upper off of the lower by just popping the pins. I finally broke it loose with some a crap ton of mortarting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 I find it a safety thing to remove the Receiver extension , when jammed as this one , its the ," what if " , when there is a loaded ,unfired cartridge in the chamber . remove the spring pressure & there is no way the BCG can " spring forward" & do something to ignite the chambered cartridge . May be over kill , but I like these things to fire , when I want them to , not when , they , want to . . <dontknow> The Ejector Pin is small , hard to tell by the photo's what length it is to see if its missing material or not . I would think your Ejector Spring could be in your lower somewhere or ejected with a fired case leaving on Ejection , changing magazines ,hard to tell . Your Gunsmith seems to have you taken care of . I would still call or email DPMS & tell them , they may send you a new bolt . I have read about buggered up Pins but ,not one that came out . Probably not assembled correctly at the Factory , never had one of mine or worked on one with this problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swatt101 Posted April 14, 2015 Report Share Posted April 14, 2015 Still an issue!...Hi all just wanted to chime in that I too have had similar experience with the pin either breaking or just falling out. This was on a new AP4 with 10 rounds shot. Further searches are pointing to a problem with newly manufactured rifles. I would think DPMS would have addressed this problem. Left them a note that I was none to happy....quality control is required. Make sure you check your new rifle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machgman Posted May 5, 2015 Report Share Posted May 5, 2015 One of the ejectors and one of the ejector springs fell out of my new unfired G2 Recons after I changed out the grip and the stock to a Magpul PRS. All I did was cycle the charging handle and drop the BCG back into battery several times before it jammed from the loose parts. DPMS QC must be really bad for them to assemble bolts with such poor attention to detail and for their inspectors to let poorly made and poorly assembled rifles get shipped out the door. Perhaps the pressure from Mother Remington to meet production numbers is too much for DPMS and DPMS chose to ignore any QC standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Perhaps the pressure from Mother Remington to meet production numbers is too much for DPMS and DPMS chose to ignore any QC standards. Marlin quality control went in the craphole after the Remington move to Ilion. Same with the name brand Bushmaster stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 And thankfully, you're close, so you can verify the Marlins before I buy them. <thumbsup> :happydrunks: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Do you think they assemble the BCG in the Factory or do you think the BCG's are spec'ed out to another Vender ? As far as the Marlin thing , I'm not defending Remington , but it could take some time to set up properly for a newly acquired rifle manufacturing ( since they moved production line ). I read that none of the real old timer Smiths would not transfer . Well how many actual GunSmiths do see on rifle production lines any more ? Custom shop stuff & maybe warranty . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Do you think they assemble the BCG in the Factory or do you think the BCG's are spec'ed out to another Vender ? As far as the Marlin thing , I'm not defending Remington , but it could take some time to set up properly for a newly acquired rifle manufacturing ( since they moved production line ). I read that none of the real old timer Smiths would not transfer . Well how many actual GunSmiths do see on rifle production lines any more ? Custom shop stuff & maybe warranty . Yup. On Marlin Owners, one of the former production managers spilled the beans on the Big R purchase. The Marlin-employed non-union craftsmen were given the following option: move to Ilion, NY on your own dime, lose all seniority, join the union, and start at the bottom of the payscale. No wonder nobody decided to follow production. A few years prior, Marlin had purchased H&R 1871/NEF, so those were part of the package also. At some point in our future people will realize the value in purchasing quality products that perform as expected, and management will leave behind the policy of "cut a corner, make a profit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yup. On Marlin Owners, one of the former production managers spilled the beans on the Big R purchase. The Marlin-employed non-union craftsmen were given the following option: move to Ilion, NY on your own dime, lose all seniority, join the union, and start at the bottom of the payscale. No wonder nobody decided to follow production. A few years prior, Marlin had purchased H&R 1871/NEF, so those were part of the package also. At some point in our future people will realize the value in purchasing quality products that perform as expected, and management will leave behind the policy of "cut a corner, make a profit." Won't happen until companies stop putting "shareholder value" above everything else. The old business model of good, valued employees, management focused on stability, and decent shareholder value led to good products, satisfied investors, and a stable workforce. Now investor greed rules everything. Products, and employees suffer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmackc Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 You look around find an old established brand that has a good product but has started to lose money because of regulations, high labor costs because of longevity pay, fully invested retirement plans and employee benefits. Buy that company roll it into one of your other crappy companies, and suck the goodie out of it, lay off the long time employees, farm out the manufacturing to a third world country, ship the inferior parts back to an assembly plant, use unskilled workers to bolt part A to part B. Hire your in-laws to run a delaying action customer service. The result is what you see in the present day crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisco Posted May 6, 2015 Report Share Posted May 6, 2015 You look around find an old established brand that has a good product but has started to lose money because of regulations, high labor costs because of longevity pay, fully invested retirement plans and employee benefits. Buy that company roll it into one of your other crappy companies, and suck the goodie out of it, lay off the long time employees, farm out the manufacturing to a third world country, ship the inferior parts back to an assembly plant, use unskilled workers to bolt part A to part B. Hire your in-laws to run a delaying action customer service. The result is what you see in the present day crap. You got it. Thank goodness for the companies who refuse to do business that way. Some of whom are supporters and /or members of this website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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