Bolt Stuck in Barrel

[ChaseFan9]

So I finally got my Matrix Aerospace .308 finished up and I took her out to put the first few rounds through.  Here's what I'm working with;

Matrix Aero matching upper/lower
Armalite LPK (from Chris)
12.3" M1913 FF Handguard w/ Matrix Barrel Nut
Black Hole Weaponry 20" rifle length 1:11 twist .936 Heavy Barrel in .308 Win

JP Large Profile Comp

Ares Armor NiB BCG
Ares Armor Charging Handle

Custom Adjustable Gas Block by Toolndie, with PRI straight gas tube

Luth-AR MBA-2 Stock on A2 Buffer Tube, Rifle buffer and 1095 spring
Geissele SSA-E trigger

DPMS forward assist
Strike Industries Ultimate Dust Cover

I loaded up one round of FGMM 168gr SMK into a 20 rd gen III PMag, chambered it, and squeezed off one round.  I looked to the side of the rifle, as I didn't think I felt the bolt lock, and it didn't, so I tried to pull back on the charging handle, and the bolt didn't move.  I looked at the ejection port and the bcg was slightly back, so I took the rifle inside and removed the upper.

The BCG was slightly in the receiver extension, so I had to slide the upper forward a little to separate it from the lower.  Once I had the upper off, I saw the bolt was like halfway unlocked and won't rotate either way to unlock.  I couldn't find the brass, and it looks like it's still in the chamber. 

I need to know how to unlock my bolt and remove it and the carrier from the rifle.  Then I can try and figure out what went wrong.

I'll post pictures in a second.  Sorry if all that's confusing, I've been cleaning up my range all day and I am wore out.

[ChaseFan9]

[ChaseFan9]

[blue109]

Yikes. Did the gun hand cycle smoothly before you fired it? Pulling the carrier out should force the bolt to turn. Can you get something into the hammer slot and tap it out or is it totally locked up?

[Robocop1051]

First of all....

Shame on you for not using enough lube. That btich is dry as a bone.

Second of all....

[blue109]

:D

[Robocop1051]

You might be able to mallet it back into place, then try to pull it back again.

Did I mention lube yet?

[Robocop1051]

[ChaseFan9]

I soaked the BCG down with like half a can of Remoil, it just doesn't show up good in the pics.  I know that stuff's thin, but it's the best I've got here at the house.  I could probably hammer the bolt, but I'm afraid I'm going to phuck up the feed ramps, locking lugs, etc.  I don't think mortaring would do anything but shear off the lugs, gas key, or the charging handle, as the back face of the bolt lugs are right up against the ones on the barrel extension. 

The carrier was dripping wet like 5 minutes before I shot the rifle.  I Headspaced the bolt and barrel with a set of gauges from Forster before I even thought about loading it up.  The rifle hand cycled fine, but this was the first live round I fed and fired. 

[ChaseFan9]

I just got what you meant, blue, the bolt's completely locked up.

Edit:  Just checked, and the brass is definitely still in the chamber.  It seems like the bolt rotated like halfway and caught the barrel extension, so it didn't even fully unlock.  I'll see if I can get the bcg forward enough to rotate the bolt, I'm just heartbroken that this is what I get after literally 1 round.

Edited July 2, 2015 by ChaseFan9

[blue109]

I use remoil..but it's a Teflon coating. The wet part of it evaporates pretty quick. For a brand new 308, you need to use something thick and wet. I use mobil1. Wet means wet. Like dip that carrier in the jug of oil, give it a little shake, and drop it in the upper. You are most likely going to have to force it. Either pound it in or pound it out.

Edited July 2, 2015 by blue109

[Matt.Cross]

I just got what you meant, blue, the bolt's completely locked up.

Edit:  Just checked, and the brass is definitely still in the chamber.  It seems like the bolt rotated like halfway and caught the barrel extension, so it didn't even fully unlock.  I'll see if I can get the bcg forward enough to rotate the bolt, I'm just heartbroken that this is what I get after literally 1 round.

 

Don't be brother, it's a mechanical device. Stop treating it like it's a glass slipper and beat that sucker into submission. Mortar it!

[ChaseFan9]

Don't be brother, it's a mechanical device. Stop treating it like it's a glass slipper and beat that sucker into submission. Mortar it!

I know, I just hate beating on schit when it ain't necessary. 

That being said, I tapped the hell outta the BCG and got it closed, then got my brother to hold the barrel while I forced that BCG back.  He of course went flying back into the wall, knocking down every picture on it, but I got it out :D

Thanks y'all, I guess I've just gotta show no mercy and let that phucker fly from now on.  And my truck needs an oil change, anyways, I'll just grab an extra quart from Advance tomorrow.  What kind of Mobil1 should I run, since y'all are so adamant about it's use :P

[darb]

What we have here is a very tough audience. :auto:

[Robocop1051]

I soaked the BCG down with like half a can of Remoil, it just doesn't show up good in the pics. I know that stuff's thin, but it's the best I've got here at the house.

Remoil is too light. Once you are fully broken in, it'd be ok. Until then, You need some heavy duty slick shiit.

I could probably hammer the bolt, but I'm afraid I'm going to phuck up the feed ramps, locking lugs, etc. I don't think mortaring would do anything but shear off the lugs, gas key, or the charging handle, as the back face of the bolt lugs are right up against the ones on the barrel extension.

If you can break off a lug like this... it's already broken off inside. You can't possibly cause more force than what the rifle creates when firing.

If you took it to a gunsmith, what do you think he'd do? I once heard a gun smith tell a customer, "I'm going to fix this in the back room because you're not going to want to watch what I have to do to your gun." Lol.

[ChaseFan9]

Remoil is too light. Once you are fully broken in, it'd be ok. Until then, You need some heavy duty slick shiit.

If you can break off a lug like this... it's already broken off inside. You can't possibly cause more force than what the rifle creates when firing.

If you took it to a gunsmith, what do you think he'd do? I once heard a gun smith tell a customer, "I'm going to fix this in the back room because you're not going to want to watch what I have to do to your gun." Lol.

I know you gotta beat on 'em sometimes, I just worry about messing something up CONSTANTLY, as this is the first .308 AR I've built, and the first time I've ever spent as much $ on a gun as this one.  Plus I've seen catastrophic failures up close before, and I try to do everything in my power to avoid them.  I think, subconsciously, "be gentle" got tied into that somehow.  Especially since the last CF I saw, a buddy of mine forced a round (I later found out was a freakin' .30-30) into a 7mm Mauser, and I got hit with wood shrapnel from 30 yards away when the dumbasss pulled the trigger.  He was lucky all he got was a bloody forehead, 3 pieces of a Mauser, and a pissed off dad.

[Matt.Cross]

I know you gotta beat on 'em sometimes, I just worry about messing something up CONSTANTLY, as this is the first .308 AR I've built, and the first time I've ever spent as much $ on a gun as this one.  Plus I've seen catastrophic failures up close before, and I try to do everything in my power to avoid them.  I think, subconsciously, "be gentle" got tied into that somehow.  Especially since the last CF I saw, a buddy of mine forced a round (I later found out was a freakin' .30-30) into a 7mm Mauser, and I got hit with wood shrapnel from 30 yards away when the dumbasss pulled the trigger.  He was lucky all he got was a bloody forehead, 3 pieces of a Mauser, and a pissed off dad.

 

 

I know where you're coming from, and I don't blame you. Just think of it this way though, one of these days you may earn the rare and quite pleasing opportunity to buttstroke some impudent neanderthal. You want to go ahead and establish that when the opportunity presents itself, your rifle will be more than able to handle it. ;)

[ChaseFan9]

I like how you put that, Matt, sounds like another ancient chinese proverb.  Good point <thumbsup>

So what would you recommend for lube during break-in, Mobil1 20W50 full synthetic?

[Robocop1051]

I use 0w40 full synth... I'd use 0w50 if I could find it. Racing oil is built for higher heat and friction.

[ChaseFan9]

I've got a couple dirt track buddies down the road, I'll see what they can spare tomorrow.

[Matt.Cross]

I like how you put that, Matt, sounds like another ancient chinese proverb.  Good point <thumbsup>

So what would you recommend for lube during break-in, Mobil1 20W50 full synthetic?

 

You can use just about anything that's designed for lubricity rather than penetration or solvency, you just don't want something gummy. Gummy will mean blockages and malfunctions and you don't need that. Any motor oil of your choice should do fine.

[mrmackc]

One time I had a local varmit hunter order a new Savage 110 left hand .270 and after shooting it for 6 months brought it in with a empty case stuck in the chamber and the bolt locked closed. I asked to see some of the brass he had been shooting (handloads) and of the 5 cases he had all of the primers had flowed on the bolt face and he had hammered the bolt handle to get one of them out when he told me how much powder he loaded I looked in the book and he had 110% of the max load. I told him to leave the rifle and I would "soak the cartridge" in the chamber and I ordered a new extractor.  I hammered the bolt open cratered the really stout Savage extractor, drove the cartridge out of the chamber and replaced the extractor. I told him that the rifle was going to blow up if he kept overloading the rounds,  never bring it back to me and when they have your damn funeral I won't be there. The dude died about three years later from a stroke.

[98Z5V]

Just a couple points - with that bolt half-way rotated like that, attacking it from the muzzle end would have broken parts, i.e., put a rod down the barrel and try to tap it back to unstick it.

 

What you did was probably the right way to attack that problem.  You needed the bolt to fully rotate first, in order to be backed out of the barrel extension - the only way to do that is make the carrier go back, and the cam pin will unlock (rotate) that bolt from the barrel extension lugs.  Mortaring, as Robo suggested right away.  Always make sure your stock is fully collapsed before you mortar... 

 

Say you shear the case rim off, the BCG comes back, and the ripped up piece of brass is stuck in the barrel chamber - that's when you'd need to attack it from the muzzle end, and knock that stuck brass outta the chamber.  Had you tried that in your situation, you would have broken off some/all bolt lugs... 

 

Lastly - I didn't see you mention that you checked headspace on this build...

 

I'll just leave that last one there.  <dontknow>

[ChaseFan9]

I soaked the BCG down with like half a can of Remoil, it just doesn't show up good in the pics.  I know that stuff's thin, but it's the best I've got here at the house.  I could probably hammer the bolt, but I'm afraid I'm going to phuck up the feed ramps, locking lugs, etc.  I don't think mortaring would do anything but shear off the lugs, gas key, or the charging handle, as the back face of the bolt lugs are right up against the ones on the barrel extension. 

The carrier was dripping wet like 5 minutes before I shot the rifle.  I Headspaced the bolt and barrel with a set of gauges from Forster before I even thought about loading it up.  The rifle hand cycled fine, but this was the first live round I fed and fired. 

Don't worry, Tom, I'm not THAT stupid :P

[98Z5V]

Fuk, I missed that...  :eek: <outtahere>