Who makes a good DPMS style upper?

[survivalshop]

  One or two manufacturers make a 308AR BC like the AR 15/16 & have the FA lower & farther back then a DPMS type . Aero maybe ? Mega ?

[TX380]

Thanks for the explanation about the forward assist; I had assumed that it would work like an AR15.

[TX380]

Range Report!

I put 60 rounds through the 308 today from a distance of about 50 yards.  I had a few FTE that I think were caused by my brass catcher.  Once I removed the brass catcher there were no problems at all with feed or ejection.  The brass landed nearby on the ground and wasn't hard to find.  Recoil wasn't bad, but 60 rounds was enough for one day.  I'll probably try a heavier buffer to reduce the recoil for longer shooting sessions.

I did have some accuracy problems that hopefully were caused by the ammo.  I was shooting Winchester 150 grain Super X Power Point.  From 50 yards, I would have several rounds touching and then get a flyer (usually to the left).  I'm just an average shot, but I can usually get all my 223 holes touching from 50 yards.  The groups seemed to open up more near the end, but that could have been due to shooter fatigue.  I have head that some guns work better with heavier projectiles.  I will be reloading for this rifle once I get enough brass together.  Right now with this ammo it's looking like a 2 MOA gun.  Hopefully it's just a matter of finding a load that the rifle likes.  Here are some of my targets from 50 yards.

 

[bubbas4570]

Good to hear the report.

I am sure there will be some brand/load that will work in your rifle to make it meet your expectations. Finding it is the fun part.... ....just have to shoot more.

[TX380]

Bubba, is your AFP carbine more accurate with any particular bullet weight?  I'm thinking of trying the Sierra 165 gr gameking, they seem to be accurate in a lot of rifles.

[bubbas4570]

I have only run147~150 grain bullets through mine.  As I have not shot anything for paper groups, I canot comment on how tight mine shoots groups.  What I can say is that hitting small rocks and shards of clay pidgeons on the back berm at 100 with irons is showing me that I have a rifle accurate enough fr me; all shooting unsupported offhand.

What I will say is that all of the American factory loads seemed to shoot into a palm sized point of impact roughly the same as eachother, with Tula being the odd load out for worse "groupings". Some were noticably smaller, but I didn't pay much attention to point of impact, as I was doing more of function shooting with the ammo.

I keep in mind that most rifle will outshoot me, and there are more variations going on than the rifle when I am shooting.  If I do my job well, the rifle will make me look good; just like a Ruger M77 shooting irons at 1,000 yards and dusting a 24" culvert with crappy handloads and pulled military bullets.  Technique will help out the shooter way more than many other things, and it sounds like you hve yours down with the smaller rifle, just need to get it "sized up" for the 308.

[Fletch]

On 4/24/2016 at 10:56 PM, unforgiven said:

Only problem w/Aero M5 was recoil system that was corrected by changing buffer tube extention,spring,and buffer to Armalite AR10 parts.For carbine setup.My BCG is Nickel boron that had to be worked in due to coating,was very tight out of the box.Got better the more I shot it.Aero has alot of value for the money.Just my 2 mags.

By any chance was the recoil system problem you mention related to the bolt carrier impacting the lower receiver when cycling? I had an issue with an M5 build...seemed like the pad on the standard 308 carbine buffer was collapsing too much allowing the bottom rails of the bolt carrier to hit the lower receiver right where it is mated with the buffer tube. Even with the gas adjusted lower the carrier still would hit the lower so after trying a few things I ended up going with one of Slash's CAR-10 heavy buffers and that completely solved my issue. I can't say for sure of course, but after troubleshooting the thing and trying to eliminate all variables one by one the buffer pad kept popping up as the "weak link".

[jtallen83]

2 hours ago, Fletch said:

By any chance was the recoil system problem you mention related to the bolt carrier impacting the lower receiver when cycling? I had an issue with an M5 build...seemed like the pad on the standard 308 carbine buffer was collapsing too much allowing the bottom rails of the bolt carrier to hit the lower receiver right where it is mated with the buffer tube. Even with the gas adjusted lower the carrier still would hit the lower so after trying a few things I ended up going with one of Slash's CAR-10 heavy buffers and that completely solved my issue. I can't say for sure of course, but after troubleshooting the thing and trying to eliminate all variables one by one the buffer pad kept popping up as the "weak link".

50 cents in the tube solved that issue for me on a Matrix build I did with an Areo buffer system, thanks Tom!

Edited May 9, 2016 by jtallen83

[TX380]

I found a note on the APF website stating that they are not affiliated with Alexandria Pro Fab (the company that made my upper).  Seems strange that they have the same initials, are located in the same town, and make identical uppers.  Obviously since they have the statement on their website, I'm not the first person to get them confused.  If you do a google search for Alexandria Pro Fab, the AFP website is even the second search result.  Guess that explains why the upper was 1/2 price...

In other news, I'm working on some hand loads to try in the rifle on Sunday.  I'm also going to try a different scope that I have on a quick connect and have a friend shoot it to see if he can get better groups.  Some friends told me that my scope or barrel might be loose.

[planeflyer21]

1 minute ago, TX380 said:

I found a note on the APF website stating that they are not affiliated with Alexandria Pro Fab (the company that made my upper).  Seems strange that they have the same initials, are located in the same town, and make identical uppers.  Obviously since they have the statement on their website, I'm not the first person to get them confused.  If you do a google search for Alexandria Pro Fab, the AFP website is even the second search result.  Guess that explains why the upper was 1/2 price...

In other news, I'm working on some hand loads to try in the rifle on Sunday.  I'm also going to try a different scope that I have on a quick connect and have a friend shoot it to see if he can get better groups.  Some friends told me that my scope or barrel might be loose.

Hhmmm.  Could be another POF/Hogan scenario.  Start out together, bitter dispute.

[TX380]

Looks like you might be right.  Google maps shows the two companies are literally next door.  I did some more digging and found a thread on ar15.com where they are discussing the same thing right now.  Here is the gist of it:

Alex Pro Firearms (APF) was originally a division of Alexandria Pro-Fab Co., Inc.  One is per county tax records owned by a TK Wilkins Properties LLC and the other is owned by Wilkins Properties LLC. The Wilkin brothers started the Alexandria Pro Fab Shop before the APF Armory was created.  Alex Pro Firearms (APF Armory) rejected some parts they had made for them. Sent them back to alex pro fab. They were supposed to destroy them per contract but instead one of the mangers decided to sell them to AIM surplus. So all warranty claims have to go through alex pro fab, but if you need parts like rail sections etc APF Armory will gladly sell you parts.  Now the APF Armory website has a statement saying "We are not affiliated with Alexandria Pro-Fab in any way!"

Link to the thread: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/691518_Alexandria_PRO_FAB__APF__308_AR_mini_review.html

Alexandria Pro Fab is also selling lowers and complete rifles.

It would be interesting to know why the parts were rejected, ie functional or cosmetic issues?

[TX380]

Range Report #2:

Went to the range today with 20 rounds of factory ammo and 20 hand loads.  Both were grouping 1-1.5 inches from 50 yards.

Then I removed the scope and mount and installed the one off my 223.  The groups immediately improved with both ammo.

I pulled a couple of shots and it's not an outstanding group, but much better than what I was getting.  I'll either try installing the scope in a different mount (it's a little high for me to get a good cheek weld), or just return the scope.  The scope is a SWFA 3-15x40 with their SSULT mount.  I've heard their warranty is very good.  I might also loose all the bolts and retighten them, but I don't think they are loose.  I also think my groups would improve with a better trigger, but I think the scope was causing some of my problems.

[planeflyer21]

Darn nice shooting there TX380!

[survivalshop]

Nice .

[bubbas4570]

That definitely works! Good shooting, TX380.

I thought that APF and Alexandria Pro Fab were just different forms of the same company at one time. Now I know different, and am going to get my parts, uppers , lowers, ect., only from APF then. Getting something that was supposed to be destroyed because of rejection isn't what I want to pay money for. Cosmetic problems are one thing, but if there happens to be spec problems, that is entirely different....and until something is purchased, there isn't much to check for specs.

I am just glad the upper is working for you, though; and keeps working on and on into the future for you without any problems.

[TX380]

I replaced my scope mount with a lower one to give me a better cheek weld (1.4" to scope centerline vs 1.66").  You wouldn't think 1/4" change in scope height would make much difference, but it fits me a lot better now.  I went to the range this afternoon and I'm getting all shots touching or even in the same hole from 50 yards.  I only had 20 rounds, but next time I'll move back to 100 yards and see what kind of groups I can get.  I'm cautiously optimistic!

[wavecraftsurf]

This is an Alex Pro Fab upper receiver 20" barrel on top of a Alexandria Pro Firearms lower receiver. Perfect fit, no blems that I could see. And after 3 outings and 1000 rounds I've had no problems except that it doesn't like reloads. As soon as I realized that and started shooting new PMC and Federal it operated flawlessly I've been able to hit steals at 400yrds. Sorry for the bad picture quality, but here it is.

Edited January 3, 2017 by wavecraftsurf
spelling

[RedneckJohn]

I can recommend the 2 companies that I have used. the first is Palmetto State Armory out of South Carolina. I have built both AR15 and LR10. Haven't got a complaint after several hundred rounds.

The second is Bear Creek Armory out of North Carolina. I have their upper on a PSA lower and it runs great for me.

[98Z5V]

10 hours ago, RedneckJohn said:

I can recommend the 2 companies that I have used. the first is Palmetto State Armory out of South Carolina. I have built both AR15 and LR10. Haven't got a complaint after several hundred rounds.

The second is Bear Creek Armory out of North Carolina. I have their upper on a PSA lower and it runs great for me.

Just for informational purposes for others that read this - PSA uppers will not pin to Aero Precision M5 lowers.  And vice-versa.  PSA and Aero M5 = No Go.

Aero M5 receivers DO pin to DPMS LR-308 receivers, back and forth. The DPMS LR-308 receivers are THE pattern, when we're talking about "DPMS-based" stuff. 

PSA receivers also DO NOT mate up to DPMS LR-308 receivers, in any way, properly.  I've tried that, too.

SO, as a disclaimer, telling someone that the PSA receivers are a fit for DPMS style other-parts - not good info. 

Edited April 21, 2022 by 98Z5V

[rpoL98]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:29 PM, 98Z5V said:

Just for informational purposes for others that read this - PSA uppers will not pin to Aero Precision M5 lowers.  And vice-versa.  PSA and Aero M5 = No Go.

Aero M5 receivers DO pin to DPMS LR-308 receivers, back and forth. The DPMS LR-308 receivers are THE pattern, when we're talking about "DPMS-based" stuff. 

PSA receivers also DO NOT mate up to DPMS LR-308 receivers, in any way, properly.  I've tried that, too.

SO, as a disclaimer, telling someone that the PSA receivers are a fit for DPMS style other-parts - not good info. 

personally, I've found that Aero M5 uppers will not fit to DPMS-pattern LR-308 lowers.  You can get the front pin in, but the back pin won't go, the upper doesn't seat down low enough, there is upper-to-lower receiver interference at the buffer tube upright curvature.  It's close enough that you could probably pound the pin in with a hammer and some grease, but then you're probably deforming the aluminum around the holes, for both the upper and lower.

I file-fit my DPMS-pattern LR-308 lowers so that they fit my Aero M5 uppers, get the coated after that, since I've standardized my AR-308 pattern on the Aero M5 receiver set fit.  I've worked with a several different DPMS-pattern LR-308 lower forgings, it's been consistent.

However, DPMS-pattern LR-308 uppers will fit onto Aero M5 lowers no problem.

[rpoL98]

Aero M5 upper

Noreen DPMS-pattern 308 lower, file-fit modified to accept Aero M5 uppers

[98Z5V]

3 hours ago, rpoL98 said:

personally, I've found that Aero M5 uppers will not fit to DPMS-pattern LR-308 lowers.  You can get the front pin in, but the back pin won't go, the upper doesn't seat down low enough, there is upper-to-lower receiver interference at the buffer tube upright curvature.  It's close enough that you could probably pound the pin in with a hammer and some grease, but then you're probably deforming the aluminum around the holes, for both the upper and lower.

I file-fit my DPMS-pattern LR-308 lowers so that they fit my Aero M5 uppers, get the coated after that, since I've standardized my AR-308 pattern on the Aero M5 receiver set fit.  I've worked with a several different DPMS-pattern LR-308 lower forgings, it's been consistent.

However, DPMS-pattern LR-308 uppers will fit onto Aero M5 lowers no problem.

I can pin some Aero M5 receivers to some real DPMS LR-308 lowers for you and take pics, if you want.  They pin together perfectly.

2 hours ago, rpoL98 said:

Aero M5 upper

Noreen DPMS-pattern 308 lower, file-fit modified to accept Aero M5 uppers

Interesting, right there.  That's not a DPMS LR-308 lower receiver, but instead, a Noreen. 

If you want pics of the DPMS (real DPMS) stuff pinned together with Aero M5 receivers, let me know.   I've already done it numerous times.

[98Z5V]

3 hours ago, rpoL98 said:

personally, I've found that Aero M5 uppers will not fit to DPMS-pattern LR-308 lowers. 

Details matter...  

[jim3326]

My 5D lower fits the Aero upper just marvelously. 

[rpoL98]

here's another one that required file-to-fit modification at the buffer tube upright:

Aero M5 upper

RTB forged DPMS-pattern 308 lower, file-fit modified to accept Aero M5 uppers

so, I guess, some fit, some don't.  I guess it comes down to the company doing the final machining on the forging (or billet).  Hmmm, interesting.

I purchased some of the Noreen forged lowers directly from Noreen, and other Noreens from RTB, and then this DPMS-pattern forged lower also from RTB.  I don't have any AR-308 DPMS-pattern billet lowers to compare.  And I don't have anything genuine DPMS original.

I'm posting the mainly pics to show the differences between the forged 308 lowers.

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by rpoL98