cannelure crimp question

[Whitezee]

Hello, just purchased a rock river arms .308ar and am also new to reloading.  I have already purchased 300 hornady amax 155gr and 168gr projectiles. I realized after I got home that they do not have a cannelure,  which from researching on this site seems to be important on a semi-auto due to possible bullet setbsck from recoil. I have a Lee factory crimp die, can I use this to put a light crimp on the amax bullets? Or should I return the amax and go with something like the SST that had a cannelure?

 

 

[shepp]

41 minutes ago, Whitezee said:

Hello, just purchased a rock river arms .308ar and am also new to reloading.  I have already purchased 300 hornady amax 155gr and 168gr projectiles. I realized after I got home that they do not have a cannelure,  which from researching on this site seems to be important on a semi-auto due to possible bullet setbsck from recoil. I have a Lee factory crimp die, can I use this to put a light crimp on the amax bullets? Or should I return the amax and go with something like the SST that had a cannelure?

 

 

Welcome to the forum feel free to post in the intro section

[MikedaddyH]

With the Lee Factory Crimp , you are good to go ! Those are good projectiles ! Welcome.

[survivalshop]

 

  What Dies are you using ?

   The only issue I have with the Lee factory crimp Die & non Cannelure Bullets is it can make the brass case mouth have a weak point . I may have over crimped them , but I don't think so . After firing when looking at the cases & after tumbling to clean , I noticed I could see a dark line on the inside of the case ,around the mouth . I looked at the fired brass that was Taper crimped & it looked normal . All brass was once reloaded  LC , annealed , stainless steel tumbled & I know it was't there before . I had a photo , but I think I deleted it , I may have the brass that I put in the Recycle can , its very noticeable .

   I would hate to have a case mouth separation because of a weakened case mouth from Crimping . As said I may have put too much of a Crimp , but I'm usually conservative on my crimping , including Taper Crimping .

 Other wise go for it , I like the Lee FCD , but I Taper Crimp all Bullets with out a Cannelure . A lot of reloader's don't even crimp , as long as you have proper neck tension .

Edited June 27, 2016 by survivalshop

[Whitezee]

Thanks for the replys. I bought the hornady 2 die set, plus the Lee factory crimp die.  

I noticed at cabelas they had hornady American series dies which have a taper crimp built into the seater die. I'm starting to think I should have got the American series dies. 

 

I guess I'm going to very lightly crimp these with the Lee factory crimp die and see how it does. 

[MikedaddyH]

17 minutes ago, Whitezee said:

Thanks for the replys. I bought the hornady 2 die set, plus the Lee factory crimp die.  

I noticed at cabelas they had hornady American series dies which have a taper crimp built into the seater die. I'm starting to think I should have got the American series dies. 

 

I guess I'm going to very lightly crimp these with the Lee factory crimp die and see how it does. 

Just be consistent when crimping, light crimp is all you need. When a heavy crimp is applied the chamber pressure of that round will be higher and as a result the brass will take more of a beating.

[survivalshop]

38 minutes ago, MikedaddyH said:

Just be consistent when crimping, light crimp is all you need. When a heavy crimp is applied the chamber pressure of that round will be higher and as a result the brass will take more of a beating.

 A consistent trim of the cases also will help .

[MikedaddyH]

Inside and outside champhering makes the brass consistent.

[392heminut]

2 hours ago, Whitezee said:

 

I noticed at cabelas they had hornady American series dies which have a taper crimp built into the seater die.

 

I never seat and crimp with the same die! When you do both at once the case mouth is being pushed into the sides of the bullet as it's still sliding into the neck. I learned early on that this creates a lot of problems when loading lead bullets in pistol cases (shaves the lead) and decided it can't be beneficial even with jacketed bullets and/or rifle cases.

Edited June 27, 2016 by 392heminut

[survivalshop]

2 hours ago, MikedaddyH said:

Inside and outside champhering makes the brass consistent.

 Are you saying the cases don't need too be trimmed to length ?  With out them being relatively close to" trim to length "or at least all some what close to the same length with in the specified limits , Crimping will be inconsistent  no matter how the mouth of the case is cleaned up . 

 

  I don't Crimp in the same step ether .

 

 

[slugger43]

5 hours ago, 392heminut said:

I never seat and crimp with the same die! When you do both at once the case mouth is being pushed into the sides of the bullet as it's still sliding into the neck. I learned early on that this creates a lot of problems when loading lead bullets in pistol cases (shaves the lead) and decided it can't be beneficial even with jacketed bullets and/or rifle cases.

Couldn't agree more with that.  I chamfer and trim also on everything I do.  I've had great luck with the Lee factory crimp dies, and now use them pretty much on everything.  They claim with straight cases you don't need to case trim when using the Lee factory crimp die, but I do it anyway.  Consistency.  Or just a picky old fart?

[MikedaddyH]

5 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 Are you saying the cases don't need too be trimmed to length ?  With out them being relatively close to" trim to length "or at least all some what close to the same length with in the specified limits , Crimping will be inconsistent  no matter how the mouth of the case is cleaned up . 

 

  I don't Crimp in the same step ether .

 

 

SS, I never said that . I go through a list of steps when prepping brass. Very labor intensive and some would say a waste of time but that's how I roll.

[survivalshop]

2 hours ago, MikedaddyH said:

SS, I never said that . I go through a list of steps when prepping brass. Very labor intensive and some would say a waste of time but that's how I roll.

  I kinda knew that , had to ask to make sure . I just didn't want to confuse someone that just de-burring the case was enough .

  You sound like me in reloading , go slow & never skip anything . 

[bubbas4570]

And don't mix up sized and unsized brass in the same container marked "ready to load"....tends to make things interesting to say the least.

[survivalshop]

  Is that because unsized brass usually has a spent primer in it & hard to seat another in it.

[HotRod308]

I wouldn't even worry about crimping, just re size the brass and load it and then go shoot it.

[MikedaddyH]

Here is a typical list of things to do to prep brass:

Sort ,  deprime , clean (tumble or wash ) , measure /sort , size , trim , measure , inside/outside champher , prime , measure and add powder , seat projo , taper crimp ,Lee FÇD , measure ,sort to box .

[Mr_Roboto]

Personally on my 5.56 I don't sweat the cannelures. I load to mag length because of my chamber and would load longer if the mag were longer (don't do this without measuring rifling engagement.) That means it's typically seated above it. The neck tension of the case should hold the bullet. You can check by measuring the COAL, ejecting, chambering the round and measuring again.

[98Z5V]

9 minutes ago, Mr_Roboto said:

Personally on my 5.56 I don't sweat the cannelures. I load to mag length because of my chamber and would load longer if the mag were longer (don't do this without measuring rifling engagement.) That means it's typically seated above it. The neck tension of the case should hold the bullet. You can check by measuring the COAL, ejecting, chambering the round and measuring again.

That's fine for a bolt action, but not for a semi auto.  Bullet setback.  From recoil.  It's real... 

[Mr_Roboto]

6 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

That's fine for a bolt action, but not for a semi auto.  Bullet setback.  From recoil.  It's real... 

Hence the reason I said to check and validate whether or not it's happening.

[bubbas4570]

On 06/29/2016 at 11:51 AM, survivalshop said:

  Is that because unsized brass usually has a spent primer in it & hard to seat another in it.

Actually, no.

I had went to a different setup for case prep: deprime, clean, then resize to try to keep one of my presses cleaner.  somewhere along the line I didn't mark the containers correctly and dumped everything together without realizing it.

That boo-boo cost me a couple of months of head scratching, along with some extra monies for trying to figure it out, then getting the tool for correcting my mistake.

[MikedaddyH]

33 minutes ago, Mr_Roboto said:

Hence the reason I said to check and validate whether or not it's happening.

OH.... Its happening ! Unless you hear a crunch when seating the projectile in the case. A compressed load !

[survivalshop]

3 hours ago, bubbas4570 said:

Actually, no.

I had went to a different setup for case prep: deprime, clean, then resize to try to keep one of my presses cleaner.  somewhere along the line I didn't mark the containers correctly and dumped everything together without realizing it.

That boo-boo cost me a couple of months of head scratching, along with some extra monies for trying to figure it out, then getting the tool for correcting my mistake.

 I always tumble my brass in normal media before sizing/depriming , then then they go to wet Stainless Steel Tumbling . Cleans them enough to keep the Die from being damaged from dirty Brass .

  As said , I Taper Crimp or use a Lee Factory Crimp on all my Hand Loads , only light crimps .

[bubbas4570]

This happens when there are years between the beginning and ending of the process. For me, getting through a 5 gallon bucket of brass took more time than I thought, plus I kept adding to the fired pile.....