Fletch Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 I spoke with Mario at Armalite this morning and emailed him the pics so he could see what I was talking about...he showed the pics to one of the gunsmiths and he said that the marks on the bolt were from the machining, and the interior of the upper and the receiver fit were "somewhat normal" but they would need to see the gun before they could say anything more definitive. Fortunately, I live about 45 minutes from Armalite so I dropped the gun off to Mario this morning as well. I'll report back when I hear more. Thanks for all the input guys! Very much appreciated!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 3,000 plus rounds an my AR-10 doesn't show wear like that. Definitely some issues for them to resolve with that rifle. Hope they treat you right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: 3,000 plus rounds an my AR-10 doesn't show wear like that. Definitely some issues for them to resolve with that rifle. Hope they treat you right. Agreed...me too. I got the impression so far that they would in fact do right...I should know soon enough if they take customer service seriously or if they just try to do the minimum to placate me...I figure they will either take care of the issues to my liking or they won't...if they do that will be great and they will have earned a loyal customer...if not, I'll just sell the rifle when I get it back and never buy another Armalite product again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, Fletch said: Agreed...me too. I got the impression so far that they would in fact do right...I should know soon enough if they take customer service seriously or if they just try to do the minimum to placate me...I figure they will either take care of the issues to my liking or they won't...if they do that will be great and they will have earned a loyal customer...if not, I'll just sell the rifle when I get it back and never buy another Armalite product again. EXACTLY ! Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 From those pictures it looks like the bcg is moving side to side and marking the upper. How much play is there ?? Also was it broken in with very little oil(lube) ?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 50 minutes ago, MikedaddyH said: From those pictures it looks like the bcg is moving side to side and marking the upper. How much play is there ?? Also was it broken in with very little oil(lube) ?!? Yes, I thought that was a possibility as well. There is some play but nothing that I think would be considered excessive. No, it was well-lubed during all firing...it's only clean-ish looking in the pics because I wiped everything down. The machining marks (if that's what they're called?) inside the upper are smooth in some spots and rough in others...perhaps the uneven surface is causing friction or grab? Either way it's out of my hands now as I dropped off the gun at Armalite today...I'm quite interested in hearing what they find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 A was thinking the tail of the bcg was bouncing around like pepper balls in a pepper grinder ! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted July 11, 2016 Report Share Posted July 11, 2016 15 minutes ago, MikedaddyH said: A was thinking the tail of the bcg was bouncing around like pepper balls in a pepper grinder ! Lol Yeah, that's what I was thinking when seeing all the marks on the inside of the upper receiver. None of mine show marks like that. And I've got thousands of rounds through them. It definitely looks like it's (the carrier) drifting off of it's center axis. And that would make sense with the way the receivers are lining up. As far as play from side to side, all of mine have barely enough to even be noticeable. Surely not enough to allow the upper to line up outside of the lower. I would wonder if the block on the upper, that the takedown pin slides through when closed together, isn't machined properly (wide enough). That would possibly allow the ass end of the receiver to move from side to side. I would hope that Armailte would make this right. In the past, I would have said that there was no question. But I haven't had any dealings with the company since it changed hands, short of just buying individual parts. I may be the Armalite pusher around here....and I love every Armalite rifle that I have. But, that being said, I'm not a blind rube or a shill for them either. Things change when companies get sold or absorbed sometimes. We'll see if they've kept their integrity of quality or not with this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 (edited) The marks on the Bolt , as said ,appear to be machining marks , poor QC. They don't look shiny as they would if they were contacting the Barrel Extension locking Lugs . The fitment of the Upper to the Lower troubles me , as far as it appears to be out of alignment , not good mechanically or for accuracy . Let us know what they do . Edited July 12, 2016 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 12, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 58 minutes ago, survivalshop said: Let us know what they do . I will definitely do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTXshooter Posted July 12, 2016 Report Share Posted July 12, 2016 Wow, I can't think of any way it could shift like that if the lugs are tight. I would definitely take it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 UPDATE... Well I got the rifle back from Armalite today. They inspected the rifle and found "no defect". Verbally I was told that everything seemed normal wear and tear and that the rifle was just "settling in" and that was the "nature of the AR-10". I don't know if there was a miscommunication somehow but they seemed completely focused only on the upper receiver...which IMO was not the primary issue...the primary issue (at least as it appeared to me) was the fact that the lower receiver (near the buffer tube) was beginning to bend backwards away from the upper receiver (as seen in the before/after shooting pics I posted...and they too saw the same "before shooting" pic). There was very minimal slop in between the receivers, and what slop there was was not front-to-back at all. They said they tried fitting several other upper receivers and they all fit the same...which to me wasn't surprising because I didn't think the upper receiver was the primary issue. How they didn't take the time to at least measure the lower, compare the lower to other lowers, or even try fitting my upper on another lower is beyond me. I did talk to my gunsmith last week...he used to work at Armalite until a few years ago and he told me that (under the new ownership) the gunsmiths "hands are tied" in many instances...whether that was true in my case I have no clue. I don't want to make it seem like Armalite has bad customer service...my issue was probably not very cut & dry...I'm sure the rifle is fine and functional as they have stated. That being said...I expected better from Armalite (as a brand) and I expected a bit more detail to their service/troubleshooting...as such I very promptly drove over to my local gun shop and sold the rifle. The bad...I did take a hit by selling it to the gun shop. The good...I learned a few lessons, and I get to build a new one to replace it. I have an Aero M5-based DMR style set-up that I'm going to move over to a Mega Maten receiver set and then rebuild the Aero M5 set as more of a "battle rifle" set-up to replace the Armalite. I just finished building an 18" 308 rifle for a buddy this weekend using a Mega set...I was super impressed with the Mega receivers...the fit & finish are perfect, the best fit I have ever seen...and the tolerance was so tight between the upper and the barrel extension that I was able to thermally fit the barrel. I still haven't gotten to test it out yet but I have pretty high hopes for its accuracy potential at this point. Hopefully the Mega set I get will be tight enough to do the same with my barrel when I swap it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 That's disappointing, did you get to talk to Mario? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 18, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 53 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: That's disappointing, did you get to talk to Mario? Yes, I spoke with Mario several times. From what I understand he didn't do any of the troubleshooting though...his gunsmiths handled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Wow ! So the Lower is moving away from the Upper & thats just the AR 10 setting in. I don't think I have ever seen that in any AR . Sounds like soft Forging ( Doubtful ) or maybe they switched to a investment Casting or they had a bad run of them & won't own up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I am very happy with my Aero M5 ,you will be also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 Fletch Well I think that is bullcrap on their part....sorry for the hit,but now you are gonna have some real quality in the Mega....never did see what the big deal was with Armalite in the first place......Flamesuit on lol Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 18, 2016 Report Share Posted July 18, 2016 I was afraid things would start going this way after the change of ownership. I would like to think if you kept pushing they would have done something but then you might have just wasted more of your time. Looks like I will be relegated to buying older used Armalites now......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mineralman55 Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Aero M5s receiver sets are great, as are the Matens. You can't go wrong with either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Yes, I have absolutely no "sellers remorse"...I'm glad to be rid of it and move on...although a bit of a shame because I really did like the gun, it was a perfect set-up for what I was looking for. The M5 build I have now has been perfect (as far as the receivers go) and I really like it...it should do well in it's new role (replacing the Armalite). And for the Mega...wow, I have been 100% impressed so far with the one I just built out for my buddy. He actually bought 3 sets (one to build now and the other 2 to keep on hand for future use) but is willing to sell me one of them. I just ordered all the parts I need to get both of my builds reconfigured/completed...hopefully everything arrives by the weekend so I can get started. Edited July 19, 2016 by Fletch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaddyH Posted July 19, 2016 Report Share Posted July 19, 2016 Fletch I am glad you got rid of that gun now ! I have a bad feeling it will self destruct in the not so near future ! Not a big deal to lose money on a gun. Now you can build one like you want it ! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quentin Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Fletch, I just saw this thread and really feel bad for you. And that ArmaLite didn't make it right. That is inexcusable! I bought a DSR10/DEF10 AR-10A back in March which is pretty much the same rifle as the one you had except for cheaper single stage trigger and standard handguards. I have around 200 rounds through it and the upper and lower receivers still mate together properly, the buffer tube interface has not bent back like yours did. My bolt has similar wear on the lugs but not quite as much. The little gouges you pictured near the lugs are on my bolt, too, but as others said it appears to be sloppy machining but not something to worry about. It certainly existed before the phosphate finish was applied, the gouges were not caused by the barrel extension. The gap between the receivers that keeps expanding near the charging handle is a real worry as you and others said. ArmaLite was wrong to discount the problem. And the gouging in the upper receiver. I wonder if they got some bad (soft) receivers? My AR-10A left the factory in Feb 2016 and I took it home in March. I believe the lower receiver was made around Sept. 2014 and the serial no. is A0020xx. ArmaLite told me the lower was made Sept. 2015 but I'm sure that's a mistake since I saw a serial number within 14 digits of mine on a DSR10/DEF10 that was tested Dec. 2014 in a magazine. Since you got your AR-10A about the same time I did it would be interesting to know when your lower receiver was made. ArmaLite should be concerned about this. Heck, I'm concerned about it, especially if your SN is A0020xx, too. I don't know how many AR-10A rifles have been made since introduction but surely more than 2100. Anyway, I hope your current 308 ARs work out for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Knowing they let Quentin's bolt got out looking that as well tells me Armalites QC standards have dropped and it isn't a one time issue, very disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted July 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 8 hours ago, Quentin said: Fletch, I just saw this thread and really feel bad for you. And that ArmaLite didn't make it right. That is inexcusable! I bought a DSR10/DEF10 AR-10A back in March which is pretty much the same rifle as the one you had except for cheaper single stage trigger and standard handguards. I have around 200 rounds through it and the upper and lower receivers still mate together properly, the buffer tube interface has not bent back like yours did. My bolt has similar wear on the lugs but not quite as much. The little gouges you pictured near the lugs are on my bolt, too, but as others said it appears to be sloppy machining but not something to worry about. It certainly existed before the phosphate finish was applied, the gouges were not caused by the barrel extension. The gap between the receivers that keeps expanding near the charging handle is a real worry as you and others said. ArmaLite was wrong to discount the problem. And the gouging in the upper receiver. I wonder if they got some bad (soft) receivers? My AR-10A left the factory in Feb 2016 and I took it home in March. I believe the lower receiver was made around Sept. 2014 and the serial no. is A0020xx. ArmaLite told me the lower was made Sept. 2015 but I'm sure that's a mistake since I saw a serial number within 14 digits of mine on a DSR10/DEF10 that was tested Dec. 2014 in a magazine. Since you got your AR-10A about the same time I did it would be interesting to know when your lower receiver was made. ArmaLite should be concerned about this. Heck, I'm concerned about it, especially if your SN is A0020xx, too. I don't know how many AR-10A rifles have been made since introduction but surely more than 2100. Anyway, I hope your current 308 ARs work out for you! My serial number was A11-001xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 20, 2016 Report Share Posted July 20, 2016 Myself , I would have been the biggest prick they ever met & would not have stood for the Machine markings on any of the components & would have told them the Lower receiver moving away from the Upper ( or what ever its doing ) is a danger to me & shooters around me & I want the rifle replaced or they would be hearing from Legal assistance , thats just me though , probably why I have never bought a Factory AR of any sort . Not that you can get bad ones , but if I build one that does that , I would expect those manufacturers to replace those effected components also & its all on me ,not relying on someone else to make that decision . If Factory Armalites are being made to that new standard , they have come a long way to ruin a Icon in the AR industry & I hope they are reading these posts & maybe someone should send them a link to this Thread . If your happy or satisfied with you decision & their lame excuses , thats OK too . Its your rifle & your decision , I think you did well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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