Reg Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Ignorance is no excuse, wild life, DEC, and a host of others find rounds, bullets, or what ever they determine make it a loaded firearm! Your toast. Up state N.Y. Had just got out of the woods, lake effect snow storms caught me under dressed and freezing. got in the truck, rifle has an empty chamber, rifle and mag with 4 shells is in soft case, in cab. LOADED the DEC cops say. I thought they were going to arrest me and confiscate everything. They didn't only cause it was Sunday IMO. But I have a uniform traffic ticket that is going to cost at least a grand. and maybe jail if I show up in person to answer this. I am in FL, 16 hr drive or ? for a flight. Don't have ammo anywhere close to the firearm in or out of the magazine. This is a gray area its up to them and after the ticket is written your toast. There is no situation that I couldn't find you guilty using the laws below. Use a black rifle to hunt its way worse. I've been thru 3 hunter education courses for two diff states to be able to hunt with bow, gun, etc and at no time was this stressed. Safe gun to me is nothing in chamber and if it has a removable mag it is. JUST A HEADS UP Transporting Firearms, Crossbows, and Bows and Arrows These rules apply whether your vehicle is parked, stopped, moving or is on private or public property. Firearms must be unloaded in the barrel, and all arrows must be in a quiver when a hunter is afield outside the legal hunting hours. At all times when carried in or on a motor vehicle, including snowmobiles: Rifles, shotguns, muzzleloading and other firearms must be unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case or carried in the trunk of a vehicle. Crossbows, slingshots, and bows and arrows must be enclosed in a case or unstrung or carried in the trunk of a vehicle. At all times, when carried in or on an off-road vehicle (ORV): Rifles, shotguns, muzzleloading and other firearms must be unloaded in both barrel and magazine and enclosed in a case or equipped with and made inoperative by a manufactured keylocked trigger-housing mechanism. Crossbows, slingshots, and bows and arrows must be enclosed in a case or unstrung. At all times, when carried in or on a motor-propelled boat or sailboat: Rifles, shotguns, muzzleloading and other firearms must be unloaded in both barrel and magazine. Firearms may not be loaded. Exception: See the Waterfowl Hunting Digest, under the Joint State-Federal Migratory Bird Hunting Regulations section. Exception: These rules do not apply to a pistol carried under authority of a concealed pistol license or properly carried under authority of a specific exception from the requirement of a concealed pistol license. See Statewide Handgun Regulations. A percussion cap muzzleloading longarm is considered unloaded if the percussion cap is removed. A flintlock muzzleloading longarm is considered unloaded if the cock is left down and the pan is open. Black powder handguns must be transported as stated above. A muzzleloading firearm that has an electric ignition system is considered unloaded if the battery is removed. Am I the only one that was ignorant of just how severe this is or can be made to be? and no I didn't aggravate this into a big deal. What makes it so bad is I just sat there and let them walk up to the cab or the truck while If known all I had to do is put the mag on my person. more to read. Hope this saves someones a$$ The federal criminal code and the criminal laws of every state divide crimes into two levels, felonies and misdemeanors. Misdemeanors are less serious; typically, they result in a sentence of one year or less, and sentences are served in a jail, not a state prison. Felonies result in state prison time, unless the court has the option to impose probation. What is a Class C Misdemeanor? In most states, misdemeanors are further classified according to severity, by classes (“A” being the most severe), or levels (“1” being the most severe); or by descriptive words or phrases (such as “misdemeanor” and “gross misdemeanor”). Each category has a sentence or a sentence range. The purpose of using categories is to make it simple to learn the punishment for any particular crime—the statute defining the crime will also state the class or level of the crime. Knowing this, the reader refers to the sentence or range for that class, and thus learns the potential sentence for that crime. For example, shoplifting might be a class C misdemeanor in a particular state, carrying a possible sentence of up to three months in jail and a fine of $1,000. Some states, however, do not classify misdemeanors. Instead, they assign a sentence for every misdemeanor crime, right in the statute that defines the crime. Class C or Level 3 Misdemeanors The following states have classified their misdemeanors into classes, levels, or some other ranking system: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, new York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketch Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 you say you brought guns to NY from out of state? ? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Sorry to here that , hope it works out for you . I got pulled over ( I was on my ATV ) in Ohio , on private land , I was on the way to my stand & passed with in 20 yards of a road & who happened to be passing by , ODNR . They stopped & I had my loaded 44 on my hip , in plain sight & long story short , ticketed me for loaded firearm in a motor vehicle , told me I just had to send in the waver , well thats not the way the Judge saw it , they were going to issue a warrant for me not showing up , that is until I pointed out that on the Ticket , it read I was on an ATV , in the woods Hunting . I should have fought it , because I was on Private land & they really had no right to even stop me , but said fuk it & just pay the fine . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 What I would like to hear is the reason for such ? Is this purely a way to fleece or does it save lives. Seems to be a part of the anti gun group that was breed by the latest commander and chief. I'm thinking pretty strong on saying to hell with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubbas4570 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 In ND, the firearms laws are sort of mixed up for hunting while carrying concealed in a vehicle, and confusing to say the least. I am not even going to get into it, but one has no excuse for having the firearm in a non legal condition while in a vehicle here....and every year people are arrested. Ignorance, forgetfulness, nor belligerence are not excuses for doing such things in the eyes of the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, sketch said: you say you brought guns to NY from out of state? ? ? That other part of N.Y. U know with trees and unmolested forest. With folks that only feed the big apple with unjust taxes ill got by crap like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 That sucks. Gotta tread lightly in enemy territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 43 minutes ago, blue109 said: That sucks. Gotta tread lightly in enemy territory. I would appreciate knowing if i am the only one that this could happen too? it should be posted in big red letters on every hunting regulation for every state that sees it this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 Law "enforcement" for this kind of stuff has nothing to do with your safety or well being. As noted, its is revenue generation and infringement by a militantly anti-gun state government. They dont actually want to prevent people from committing the "crime", they want to snare as many people with it as possible and punish them for having different ideas on basic freedoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 What we tell the people in our [Indiana] Hunter safety class is to call the state DNR you will be visiting and get the straight dope from them. Especially when hunting out of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted November 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 9 hours ago, sketch said: you say you brought guns to NY from out of state? ? ? 2 hours ago, blue109 said: 28 minutes ago, unforgiven said: What we tell the people in our [Indiana] Hunter safety class is to call the state DNR you will be visiting and get the straight dope from them. Especially when hunting out of town. This hasn't been verified by me. Arizona - Not specified by law. California - That gun is loaded. Florida - Loaded in anything in the mag. Georgia - Unclear, but it leans to be considered loaded. Idaho - Not stated in law. Kansas - Nothing is the chamber is unloaded. Kentucky - It would be loaded. Massachusetts - The gun would be loaded. Nevada - The gun would be unloaded. New Jersey - See New York. New York - Any rounds in the mag would be loaded. Even if the mag is out of the gun but near it. North Carolina - No law defines loaded. North Dakota - Loaded magazine is not considered loaded. Ohio - They define unloaded, but by that then the gun would be loaded. Oklahoma - Legally that is considered loaded, and in a car the magazine could be near the gun and be considered loaded. Tennessee - Gun would be loaded Texas - If a bullet is in the gun or magazine it is loaded. Utah - Nothing in the chamber is unloaded. Virginia - It would be considered loaded. Washington - Gun is loaded. Wisconsin - Loaded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 I got an M5 setup for deer hunting with a 14.5" plus welded comp for 16.1 overall. I figured I'd call DNR and verify the rifle was good to go. Glad I called because I needed to have 16" of barrel, no exceptions. I should have called first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 A welded 14.5 is still a 16" barrel by ATF/federal definition? Im guessing whoever you spoke to answered that one wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 21, 2017 Report Share Posted November 21, 2017 DNR here was not happy that rifle hunting was legislated for deer. I just go by what I was told. Not going to court for an 1 1/2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 4 hours ago, blue109 said: A welded 14.5 is still a 16" barrel by ATF/federal definition? Im guessing whoever you spoke to answered that one wrong. The DNR May define barrel length as Rifled Barrel length, so no the 14.5" would not meet their definition , I would suspect . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, survivalshop said: The DNR May define barrel length as Rifled Barrel length, so no the 14.5" would not meet their definition , I would suspect . That is the position of Indiana DNR. It's not the worse thing that's happened to me,having 2 M5 uppers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, unforgiven said: I got an M5 setup for deer hunting with a 14.5" plus welded comp for 16.1 overall. I figured I'd call DNR and verify the rifle was good to go. Glad I called because I needed to have 16" of barrel, no exceptions. I should have called first. 8 hours ago, blue109 said: A welded 14.5 is still a 16" barrel by ATF/federal definition? Im guessing whoever you spoke to answered that one wrong. 2 hours ago, unforgiven said: That is the position of Indiana DNR. It's not the worse thing that's happened to me,having 2 M5 uppers. The state can't "define" the firearm - that's WAY out of their jurisdiction - and the whole reason the BATFE exists in the first place. If you challenged that, the state would lose, by the federal agency definition of that firearm. If pinned and welded, by federal definition, then the pinned-and-welded device is PART of the barrel when accounting for barrel length... The device is one, with the barrel, and counted in it's overall length. State says 16" of barrel - and by BATFE standards, you HAVE 16.1" of "BARREL." Done. That case gets thrown out of the STATE court - and there's nothing the state can do about it. BATFE says so. Edited November 22, 2017 by 98Z5V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: The state can't "define" the firearm - that's WAY out of their jurisdiction - and the whole reason the BATFE exists in the first place. If you challenged that, the state would lose, by the federal agency definition of that firearm. If pinned and welded, by federal definition, then the pinned-and-welded device is PART of the barrel when accounting for barrel length... The device is one, with the barrel, and counted in it's overall length. State says 16" of barrel - and by BATFE standards, you HAVE 16.1" of "BARREL." Done. That case gets thrown out of the STATE court - and there's nothing the state can do about it. BATFE says so. But the dNr thinks and says they got more power than god and the bafte, atleast In wisc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, shepp said: But the dNr thinks and says they got more power than god and the bafte, atleast In wisc They would be INCORRECT in that ASS-umption, then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 8 hours ago, 98Z5V said: The state can't "define" the firearm - that's WAY out of their jurisdiction - and the whole reason the BATFE exists in the first place. If you challenged that, the state would lose, by the federal agency definition of that firearm. If pinned and welded, by federal definition, then the pinned-and-welded device is PART of the barrel when accounting for barrel length... The device is one, with the barrel, and counted in it's overall length. State says 16" of barrel - and by BATFE standards, you HAVE 16.1" of "BARREL." Done. That case gets thrown out of the STATE court - and there's nothing the state can do about it. BATFE says so. I think you will find that the DNR can make any regulation about firearms or hunting equipment they chose in their State . I would not want to spend the $$ trying to fight it , you would lose . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted November 22, 2017 Report Share Posted November 22, 2017 31 minutes ago, survivalshop said: I think you will find that the DNR can make any regulation about firearms or hunting equipment they chose in their State . I would not want to spend the $$ trying to fight it , you would lose . Agreed me either, my former hunting friend is 15,000 and 2 years deep into it with the dnr right now. All because of his ego and his rule bending. Before proven guilty they came in a seized all his archary equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 15 hours ago, survivalshop said: I think you will find that the DNR can make any regulation about firearms or hunting equipment they chose in their State . I would not want to spend the $$ trying to fight it , you would lose . No matter how big they think they are, they can't overrule the definitions of firearms that the fed agency (that is actually in charge of that function) defines... They do not have to power to overrule the BATFE definitions, and make their own definitions up... There is no way they would win that in a court of law... They can decide what minimum caliber, maximum caliber, what's in season, season duration, etc... But they can't say that they can change the definition of a firearm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 8 hours ago, 98Z5V said: No matter how big they think they are, they can't overrule the definitions of firearms that the fed agency (that is actually in charge of that function) defines... They do not have to power to overrule the BATFE definitions, and make their own definitions up... There is no way they would win that in a court of law... They can decide what minimum caliber, maximum caliber, what's in season, season duration, etc... But they can't say that they can change the definition of a firearm... Yes they can & do , all the time . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) So question. If you had a pinned 14.5, and DNR found you in violation and decided to push the issue, would it be considered a criminal firearms violation? And if so, wouldnt that push it into federal court territory? And if so, wouldnt they look at the federal definition of a 16" barrel? Does the state hunting regulation specify 16" of rifling? Just curious here. I got 99 problems but firearm restrictions aint one. :D Edited November 23, 2017 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted November 23, 2017 Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 Fine, possible firearm confiscation. Indiana isn't perfect but it's better than a lot of other places. DNR carries a lot of weight here in predominately farm country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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