COBrien Posted September 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, 98Z5V said: Not bagging on you or anything, but your testament here - you are either the 2nd or 3rd person here with problems with a Gibbz side=charging upper. If you've never posted about problems with that upper before, then you're the 3rd person. I've seen "fix my gun" complaints TWICE here, involving that upper. If you've never mentioned it to date, you are the third... No offense taken. I haven’t posted about Gibbz problems before, but now that you mention it, I do seem to remember someone (maybe you?) mentioning previous problems, either in this thread or in the “anybody know anything about these?” thread I started. I didn’t check out those threads, but I figured surely they’ve got their problems worked out by now. Fawk. I actually called Gibbz this afternoon to ask WTAF could be the problem. They blamed Criterion and NLA (“that’s a pretty new BCG to the market, maybe they haven’t quite ironed it out yet”), then said, “If you hit a wall, send it to us and we’ll see if we can figure it out.” No, thanks. I’m having Mike headspace me a bolt. I figure it can’t hurt to know it’s been hand-selected by CBI. I’ll try ‘er out — by hand — with live rounds. If she won’t work, I’ll try various combinations of NLA, FA, and DPMS carriers and bolts to see if I can find something that’ll check out. If still no dice, the Gibbz upper will go in a parts box for “one of these days” when I have the time and patience to dick with it. Then I’ll bite the bullet and pick up a Fulton upper on sale. I’d love a FA side-charger, but that’ll require another $175 for a carrier. So it’ll be a standard upper, and I’ll throw the NLA carrier, FA bolt, and my TacOps Sniper in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 11, 2019 Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, COBrien said: No offense taken. I haven’t posted about Gibbz problems before, but now that you mention it, You be #3, brother. Three times we've heard them on this site, and three times there's been "gun-build problems." I'll take a problem here or there - tolerance stacking, whatever. Twice? Twice is an issue, and a lack of QC from a company. Three times?... They have an issue with their hardware... That's beyond the range of "it's just a coincidence..." at that point. I hope Gibbz figures this out - or someone that's a machinist figures it out for them, for us here. Something is going on with their hardware... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted September 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2019 2 hours ago, 98Z5V said: You be #3, brother. Three times we've heard them on this site, and three times there's been "gun-build problems." I'll take a problem here or there - tolerance stacking, whatever. Twice? Twice is an issue, and a lack of QC from a company. Three times?... They have an issue with their hardware... That's beyond the range of "it's just a coincidence..." at that point. I hope Gibbz figures this out - or someone that's a machinist figures it out for them, for us here. Something is going on with their hardware... ...and it’s a damn shame, because their idea is brilliant. But the execution is apparently piss-poor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted October 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2019 I finally just bit the damn bullet today and ordered up a FA upper. Along with a port door and gas vent instead of a forward assist. Does the vent help? I dunno. Can it hurt? I suppose not. There's another $200(ish) in this build. But if it gets her to the range and running, it'll be worth it. That Gibbz upper will make a nice conversation piece in my office. I can't, in good conscience, sell that fvcking thing down the road to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted October 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2019 FA upper, port door, and SSS Gas Vent showed up yesterday. Got the kids to bed, got Momma off to work, and got the receiver lapped. Unlike the AR-15 uppers I got from FA, this .308 upper didn't take much. In fact, all I did was lap the anodizing off. No unevenness at all -- just a nice, shiny solid ring. Then I installed the port door and gas vent. I'm not sure how much I like the fit of this upper to my lower. But, with them not being purchased as a matched set, I can't fault FA. I'll sand down one of my Accu-Wedges tonight and get it "just right." Next up is dismantling the Gibbz upper. I'll be dropping the barrel off to a friend to have him "touch up" the sandblasted finish forward of the gas block. When I installed it, I hadn't thought about how snug a fit the gas block would be, so I have shiny lines all the way to the muzzle. Lesson learned -- a small metal shim on the non-threaded side, and run the clamping screws in from the threaded side to spread it open a bit. Debating on going back together with a SLR Sentry 7 I have lying around... I can already hear the immortal (immoral?) words of @98Z5V, though... Don't complicate shite with complicated shite!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted November 25, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2019 Man, this simple little project is taking a long time to get together... I finally got a chance to strip the Gibbz upper last night, after Momma took an overtime shift in dispatch and I got the kids to bed. Took me all of 20 minutes to get 'er apart. I bubble-wrapped the barrel and dropped it off with a buddy this morning. He's going to "touch up" the blasting forward of the gas block where I made some shiny spots while installing said gas block. Should have it back before Thanksgiving (hopefully tomorrow...), and I'll get everything assembled on the Fulton upper. Before I assemble, though, I'm considering using some Loctite 609 or 620 to "bed" my barrel extension. Of course, I don't have the barrel in my hands to check the fit of the extension to the receiver (if it's tight enough, I may not need it, but I doubt it'll be a "thermal fit"). Anyone have advice/recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted November 26, 2019 Report Share Posted November 26, 2019 6 hours ago, COBrien said: Loctite 609 That's what I use. Can't say I have any hard data to point at when it comes to any improvement but it hasn't caused a problem and gives me one less excuse for poor accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) After having the upper in my vise and installing the barrel, the barrel extension-to-receiver fit was pretty good. Decided against LocTite at this time. New issue, though... Went to install my Griffin Armament 30SD muzzle brake (in preparation for my 30SD being released from jail in 4ish months), and the brake bottoms out on the threads with about 0.100" of space between the base of the brake and the shoulder on the barrel, and the brake is 270° out of time. So I need about 0.131" of "shimmage" there. No way in hell am I going to stack that many shims. I poked around online, looking for a 5/8-24x.100" or so spacer, and came up dry. I did find a 5/8-24x.200" jam nut, and had thoughts of torquing it down tight against the barrel shoulder (with RockSett), then shimming against it to time the brake. I also ordered up some 5/8-24 peel washers, .067" thickness, thinking one whole washer plus one washer with a lamination or two (0.003" each) removed might get me where I need to be. I've never had a muzzle device that wasn't threaded deep enough (or a barrel that was too long in the threads). Or, if I have, it's been covered by a crush washer and I didn't notice. What's the best strategy here? Edited December 9, 2019 by COBrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 20 minutes ago, COBrien said: After having the upper in my vise and installing the barrel, the barrel extension-to-receiver fit was pretty good. Decided against LocTite at this time. New issue, though... Went to install my Griffin Armament 30SD muzzle brake (in preparation for my 30SD being released from jail in 4ish months), and the brake bottoms out on the threads with about 0.100" of space between the base of the brake and the shoulder on the barrel, and the brake is 270° out of time. So I need about 0.131" of "shimmage" there. No way in hell am I going to stack that many shims. I poked around online, looking for a 5/8-24x.100" or so spacer, and came up dry. I did find a 5/8-24x.200" jam nut, and had thoughts of torquing it down tight against the barrel shoulder (with RockSett), then shimming against it to time the brake. I also ordered up some 5/8-24 peel washers, .067" thickness, thinking one whole washer plus one washer with a lamination or two (0.003" each) removed might get me where I need to be. I've never had a muzzle device that wasn't threaded deep enough (or a barrel that was too long in the threads). Or, if I have, it's been covered by a crush washer and I didn't notice. What's the best strategy here? If the muzzle brake isn't going to be an attachment device for a suppressor I would just use a crush washer. Midway has them. Crush washers are a no no for any muzzle devices that will mount a suppressor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 9, 2019 Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, COBrien said: I did find a 5/8-24x.200" jam nut, I used a JP jam nut on one of my rifles with no issues. There is also the Accu-washer system, I don't have the measurements but betting they will work. https://precisionarmament.com/product/accu-washer-system/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, 392heminut said: If the muzzle brake isn't going to be an attachment device for a suppressor I would just use a crush washer. Midway has them. Crush washers are a no no for any muzzle devices that will mount a suppressor though. It is going to be a suppressor mount. Just waiting on my GA 30SD to be released from BATFE jail. 7 minutes ago, jtallen83 said: I used a JP jam nut on one of my rifles with no issues. There is also the Accu-washer system, I don't have the measurements but betting they will work. https://precisionarmament.com/product/accu-washer-system/ I’ve looked into the accu-washer system, but was still going to have to stack 3-4 washers to get where I needed to be. Or, at least, that’s what it looked like when I was checking into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, COBrien said: It is going to be a suppressor mount. Just waiting on my GA 30SD to be released from BATFE jail. I’ve looked into the accu-washer system, but was still going to have to stack 3-4 washers to get where I needed to be. Or, at least, that’s what it looked like when I was checking into it. That's perfectly fine. The Precision Armament Accu-Washers are all I use anymore. You never use the thickest one in the pack on anything - you KEEP that one, because it's the "base washer" that you make all your measurements from, initially. The one marked III III. I ran into a situation where I needed one that I'd already used. I stuck another thick one on there, use my base washer, and came up with the one to stack with it. Zero issues. It's the only way to go, brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 13 hours ago, COBrien said: I’ve looked into the accu-washer system, but was still going to have to stack 3-4 washers to get where I needed to be. Or, at least, that’s what it looked like when I was checking into it. From the spec sheet measurements you should be able to get what you need with two washers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, jtallen83 said: From the spec sheet measurements you should be able to get what you need with two washers? I hadn't seen the spec sheet that shows the actual thicknesses, in thousandths. Just looked at that, and it looks like you're 100% correct. There goes another $24.99! 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 ...make that $49.98... Picked up a set in 1/2-28 also. Because, well, the Dissipator will also be a host. And so will the Ruger ART (for an Optimus Micro, eventually...). Likewise with the kids' .22LR ARs. And, while we're at it, might as well set up the wife's patrol rifle with a Griffin M4SD Linear Comp. As soon as Griffin gets some more made... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 20 hours ago, 392heminut said: If the muzzle brake isn't going to be an attachment device for a suppressor I would just use a crush washer. Midway has them. Crush washers are a no no for any muzzle devices that will mount a suppressor though. Why are crush washers a no no for suppressor use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtallen83 Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, ARTrooper said: Why are crush washers a no no for suppressor use? They might not crush evenly or be made with tight enough tolerances to keep good suppressor alignment. Might be other issues I am not aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 Hmmmm good to know... not like i will have the money for a suppressor in the next 2 years or more. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted December 10, 2019 Report Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, jtallen83 said: They might not crush evenly or be made with tight enough tolerances to keep good suppressor alignment. Might be other issues I am not aware of. Yup! What JT said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 5:07 PM, jtallen83 said: I used a JP jam nut on one of my rifles with no issues. There is also the Accu-washer system, I don't have the measurements but betting they will work. https://precisionarmament.com/product/accu-washer-system/ Well looks like i will be trying this sooner than i thought. My vp6 gamma 300 blk i just got doesnt time correctly with the crush washer it comes with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 1 hour ago, ARTrooper said: Well looks like i will be trying this sooner than i thought. My vp6 gamma 300 blk i just got doesnt time correctly with the crush washer it comes with. I'd heard of the Accu-Washer system around here, but had never taken the time to actually learn how it works. Seems like a solid way to mount any muzzle device, and (except in rare circumstances, like where you've got 0.100" of gap to take up...) would only require 1 washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTrooper Posted December 12, 2019 Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, COBrien said: I'd heard of the Accu-Washer system around here, but had never taken the time to actually learn how it works. Seems like a solid way to mount any muzzle device, and (except in rare circumstances, like where you've got 0.100" of gap to take up...) would only require 1 washer. I will let you know my thoughts when I purchase it in a week or two. Edited December 12, 2019 by ARTrooper I am an idiot. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2019 Mine should be in tomorrow (was supposed to be here today, but USPS is a government entity, after all...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COBrien Posted December 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) Alright, so before brother 98 threw in his support for the Accu-Washer system, I'd already pulled the trigger on some jam nuts, shims, and peel washers in 5/8-24. Then, on the advice of @98Z5V, I picked up some Accu-Washers. I was thinking I'd get all this stuff in front of me, then decide which looked to be the most reliable. I finally did that last night, after I got the 6 m/o to bed. First thought was, I'll run the jam nut down to the barrel shoulder, then shim it. Was still gonna need some 0.030" of shims. Ehh. Then, I thought I'd run an Accu-Washer between the brake and the jam nut. Good look, but I wasn't all that confident in the flatness of the jam nut. So, I ended up running a #17 Accu-Washer against the barrel shoulder, with a #10 Accu-Washer (IIRC -- it was 0100 by the time I buttoned everything up...) on top of it. Getting the brake timed perfectly was going to require excessive torque. So I tore it all down and tried a #9 Accu-Washer. Hand-tight, it was just a RCH past where it needed to be. Torquing was only going to make it worse. So a #10 it is, then! Couple little schmears of Mobil 1 grease (yeah, the red stuff) on each side of the #10, some RockSett on the muzzle threads, and she timed up pretty damn good. Still took a bit more torque than I would have preferred, but it is what it is. By the time the RockSett goes off, she ain't goin' nowhere. Also mounted my Bushnell Nitro 2.5-10x44 FFP scope back on the rifle, but this time in a Warne LR-XSKEL (20 MOA) mount. Then mounted up my new Griffin M2 45° irons. This rifle is shaping up pretty good at this point. Still have to boresight the scope and will boresight the irons before my first -- err, second -- range trip. Debating on checking headspace just to satisfy myself that it's been done. Criterion hand-selected this Fulton Armory bolt (with this carrier), so there shouldn't be an issue. But that was with everything assembled on the Gibbz upper. Seeing as how Fulton Armory puts out a had-and-shoulders better product than Gibbz, should I be concerned about checking headspace here? Edited December 18, 2019 by COBrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted December 18, 2019 Report Share Posted December 18, 2019 You got it going on brother 👍 now you know parts won't fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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