DPMS G2 Recon - Bad Ammo?

[ImpliedConsent]

Backstory: bought new DPMS G2 Recon on Veterans Day, 2017. Shot and zero'd BUIS. Had the both catch to the rear and not release once on the range. Kept firing, no issues. Got home to clean, bolt to the rear... Again... bolt to the rear and would not release. Had to do a warranty fix. I just got it back today and have not shot it.

Here's the explanation on the ticket:

• Inspected - found part of primer lodged under bolt catch
• [Inspected rest of gun]
• Primer damage is due to round behaving poorly in semi auto
• Find new type of ammo
• [Red stamp: We have found that Hornady, Nosler and certain other types of ammo have weak primers and behave poorly in semi-auto platforms. Avoid these in your GII rifle.]

OK, I'll go with that, but jeez, I would think that Federal XM80CL 7.62x51, 149GR FMJ would be just fine in this...and any other 7.62x51. I've got to call BS on this. I've only got about 1k in XM80CL, still boxed (humidity controlled climate) that I use. It's all I've ever used (used to have a BRO PG14...expensive...heavy). When I go to the range next, I'll look at the spent cartridges and primer strikes (with pics).

Anyone heard of this before?

[washguy]

Consent     im right there with ya  BS flag is raised       Wash

[survivalshop]

 Remember some posting here about Cratered Primers with the GII , probably due to the fit of the Firing Pin & its Hole in the Bolt . So , maybe some Primers on these Rifles are popping out because of the Rifles Chamber & or Bolt design. 

   So there may be issues with certain types of Ammo in these Rifles , they did put it in red .

  I have had Primers find their way under the Disconnector & stop the rifle from firing , never had one under the Bolt Stop though .

Edited December 12, 2017 by survivalshop

[ImpliedConsent]

Well, the tech wasn't wrong on the primer pieces. I pulled a big piece after a my first 3rd group. I tried to find the brass for that one, no luck. Anyway, this is what happened at the range today. I'm see the face of the brass with swirl marks. Some are fairly gouged. Seems to me (me being a "user", not an armor) that the extractor is playing hell on the round. Enough so, that it scraped the primer (and pieces) rights off.

 

[washguy]

Consent     Well that just suks !   so now what?

"We have found that Hornady, Nosler and certain other types of ammo have weak primers and behave poorly in semi-auto platforms. Avoid these in your GII rifle "    

They don't have that warning in their DPMS G1 rifle..... Hornaday ? Nosler?  and then theres the "certain other types of ammo"  I would want my money back  on that statement alone     Wash

[ImpliedConsent]

Wow, I just zoomed the cartridge pic. It's worse than I thought. Firing pin even punched a hole in one. This was just a random handful of my rounds.

I'm gonna have to contact DPMS again. I hate this more than anything - because the damn thing is so accurate. Easy a sub MOA. Those ammo boxes are from different lots. I'd hate to go out and buy other brands - that's not the point of the rifle. It's advertised as a Multi-caliber (.308 as well).

Suggestions? Any armors out there wanna give it a diagnosis?

[Sisco]

I would call DPMS and ask to speak with the Head Armorer. They evidently know they have a problem, and I am guessing they know the root cause. Tell them you like the rifle and want to keep it but need to find out how to fix this. A firing pin that ruptures primers should be considered unacceptable by themanufacturer.

[Sisco]

IC, sent you a Private Message with a link to a discussion about this. Has been a problem with them all along apparently.

[survivalshop]

 Good read here , https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2012/2/16/problems-with-primers/

 Personally , I believe its a dangerous condition & don't think it has anything to do with the Ammo , As said above , DPMS knows there is an issue with the Chamber or Bolt ( its a new design of theirs ) I would set it up with DPMS to send it back for them to go over & I would send some fired brass with it .

[ImpliedConsent]

Thanks y'all. I also forgot to mention this (now that I'm cleaning at home): my firing pin retaining pin (cotter pin design) is bent. Make's it a bit difficult to pull/insert. Sure, I can go buy a bunch of FPRPs, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't designed to bend.

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement. I've unboxed and fired 1 x M16A2 and 2 x M4s (all others were re-issue) throughout my Army career. I've seen nothing like this. Based on my experience, I love the AR design but dislike the 5.56. It's the reason I search for 7.62 (.308) for it's larger bullet. It's the reason I buy and shoot Federal / Lake City ammunition.

...anyway...support request submitted for the second time in a month.

 

[ImpliedConsent]

Update: talked with DPMS twice (somehow cut off from first tech). I explained everything and their thoughts.

Tech 1: Must use 168gr ammunition. All 149, 147gr are shown not to work in the G2 {arguing ... really?} What mags? Pmags? Yeah, no, they don't work in the G2. {arguing here-page 28 of my OM says Magpul Pmag are OK} Dump them. {not on your life} and get steel magazines {arguing I used the OEM steel 10rd mag as well}. We got cut off about here...

---had to call back and talk about the bent FPRP--

Tech 2: Hmm... wait. Gimme your serial number {does}. Well, you can't shoot 7.62 in your .308! {umm, it's stamped two things - 1 - Multi-caliber printed on side of magazine well - 2 - 7.62x51mm 10/1 on the barrel}. Wait, no, I see it. Yep, it is a 7.62. OK, so, I've heard of this before. My associate is very interested. Send me pic of the bolt face. I see the pictures you submitted earlier. {Done}

So, it's a waiting game. I wasn't impressed that I had to argue. I get they're probably pretty danged busy, but still.

[Sisco]

IC, your gonna hate this, but with that type of tech support, think about doing your own build with the support of the guys on this forum, or consider selling your G2 and getting something like an Armalite or a Daniels Defense. You will pay more, but their techs know what they are talking about. They have a problem, and it sounds that not even the techs are trained into what to do about it. That is not good.

[ImpliedConsent]

I'm not disputing their technical ability. There knee-jerk troubleshooting reactions have me a bit concerned. I'm also concerned now that I need specialized ammo (no Hornady, no Nosler...Federal was scoffed at) 168gr, specialized magazines? Damn, shoulda asked my builder bud about DPMS. When we were discussing this, he asked if it was a DPMS, I acknowledged. A butt chewing later (all the proprietary bits of the G2), he also mentioned Daniel Defense and be done with it...'cuz he ain't building me one.

I'll see where this goes. My gun-drama.

[Sisco]

It looks like you have to give up flexibility if you choose to save weight via the G2. Ruling out Federal XM80? That is harsh. I routinely shoot M80 NATO ball from various manufacturers and countries in both my Armalite AR10’s , and my M1A, then reload the brass with 168 and 175 grain bullets. Other than some marginal accuracy sometimes with the original 147 grain bullets, I have never had a problem with the M80 type cartridges. Well good luck and let us know what happens.

[survivalshop]

3 hours ago, ImpliedConsent said:

I'm not disputing their technical ability. There knee-jerk troubleshooting reactions have me a bit concerned. I'm also concerned now that I need specialized ammo (no Hornady, no Nosler...Federal was scoffed at) 168gr, specialized magazines? Damn, shoulda asked my builder bud about DPMS. When we were discussing this, he asked if it was a DPMS, I acknowledged. A butt chewing later (all the proprietary bits of the G2), he also mentioned Daniel Defense and be done with it...'cuz he ain't building me one.

I'll see where this goes. My gun-drama.

  Well , they seem to have no idea what they are talking about , you should be able to shoot 7.62x51 or 308 , with any of the normal weight Bullets , the real light ones could be an issue , but normal 308 loads should be fine . . There are many of these GII rifles out there working fine, with happy owners .

  The one wanting to look at your Bolt Face , at least is getting somewhere . Keep at them .

  The " Multi Cal " means the Receivers can be used in other calibers .

Edited December 14, 2017 by survivalshop

[shepp]

9 hours ago, survivalshop said:

  Well , they seem to have no idea what they are talking about , you should be able to shoot 7.62x51 or 308 , with any of the normal weight Bullets , the real light ones could be an issue , but normal 308 loads should be fine . . There are many of these GII rifles out there working fine, with happy owners .

  The one wanting to look at your Bolt Face , at least is getting somewhere . Keep at them .

  The " Multi Cal " means the Receivers can be used in other calibers .

Yup look at your barrel usually dpms has it stamped in their barrel, mine is stamped 7.62x51

[ImpliedConsent]

12 hours ago, survivalshop said:

  The one wanting to look at your Bolt Face , at least is getting somewhere . Keep at them .

Tech 2 sent me an email this morning. They'll be sending me out a new bolt and firing pin. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Sisco]

Wonder what kind of buffer/spring assembly they are using? Not to say that is part of the problem, I am just curious if they had to reengineer those with the reduced weight of everything else.

[survivalshop]

 

2 hours ago, Sisco said:

Wonder what kind of buffer/spring assembly they are using? Not to say that is part of the problem, I am just curious if they had to reengineer those with the reduced weight of everything else.

  Tweaking the Buffer system is one good idea , if its a Timing issue . If its a Bolt or Chamber , the Buffer system will have little effect .Could also have too large of Gas Port in the Barrel .

  

[ImpliedConsent]

19 hours ago, Sisco said:

Wonder what kind of buffer/spring assembly they are using? Not to say that is part of the problem, I am just curious if they had to reengineer those with the reduced weight of everything else.

Ahh, another thing my builder buddy yelled at me about. They use a proprietary buffer. I didn't ask about the spring while I was being "shamed".  

[ImpliedConsent]

So, here we are. Remington/DPMS just sent a new bolt and firing pin. I had my local gun shop do the switch because it is not a user level switch. The new bolt came blank. No O-rings, gas rings. Cost me 20bucks.

What I have noticed, comparing the two pieces they are sending me (I also replaced the bent firing pin retaining pin), is that the new firing pin is almost a work of art compared to the old. The old firing is flattened and not smooth. Also looking at the firing pin hole on the new v. old. Smaller. The old firing pin does not fit, only the new smooth firing pin.

I'll be shooting tomorrow. Hopefully this fixes the ammunition/primer issue.

 

[survivalshop]

 That Firing Pin is toast . Also , notice the Firing Pin Hole in the Bolt .

  The Bolt actually looks different , notice the Ejector passage seems to be machined differently or it could be just the photo. Do you haves some way to measure the depth of the Bolt face , from the Face of the Bolt Lugs ?

 

[98Z5V]

See.  Those guys knew that the firing pin hole in the bolt face was too big...

[sketch]

2 hours ago, survivalshop said:

 That Firing Pin is toast . Also , notice the Firing Pin Hole in the Bolt .

  The Bolt actually looks different , notice the Ejector passage seems to be machined differently or it could be just the photo. Do you haves some way to measure the depth of the Bolt face , from the Face of the Bolt Lugs ?

 

 sure seems to be a ruff cut.. almost looks like a pilot bit was used in the fireing pin hole, ej holes look oversized also.  good to go with the new gear!?

[392heminut]

On 1/29/2018 at 7:40 PM, 98Z5V said:

See.  Those guys knew that the firing pin hole in the bolt face was too big...

That right there!