An interesting read

[98Z5V]

You guys on the "not one more inch" contingent are not thinking about what the author of this article wrote. You're losing nothing, and not even losing an inch.  Not even one millimeter. 

This is the exact same process that you need to go through to get NFA items approved - and many here have already done it.  You go through this process, and you get your "Semi-Auto License."  Done. It's good, for anything semi-auto, AND suppressors AND SBRs/short-barreled whatever.

At the point that you get approved for this license, you walk into your gun pusher and say, "Hey, that's a mighty nice AAC suppressor you got there!  It's only $800?  I'll take it - here's my license..." 

You don't do through a background check, no paperwork is filed when it's recorded to your license #, you hand him your money, and you walk out with it.  Then.  Right then.

Or, maybe you saw a sweet DD Mk18, complete.  Same process.  Give them your money, record the transaction, and walk away with it, right then.  Just like buying a shotgun at Walmart.

The "not one more inch" mentality is gonna hurt this side of the argument, when you don't even want to hear what the other side has to offer. You won't even listen to it, and just yell "NOT ONE MORE INCH, SHALL YE TAKE, IN THIS FIELD TODAY!!!" 

"Compromise" in this isn't an option.  There will be some compromise, in the future, if we keep holding on to the "Nothing!  Ever!!!" mentality.  The only problem is...  if we keep going down this road, the "compromise" will not be to our liking, not in the least.  It won't be a compromise.

This about this - how much "compromise" do you think would be going on right now if Hitlery beat The Donald?  And in 2018, she corrupted the elections into a Dem-controlled everything?

You wouldn't have any fucking "compromise" anything.  We'd all be Felons, retroactively. 

Period.

This "not one more inch" thing needs to get resolved, and fast, for the future of this country.

Go read what that article says again, with that in mind.  That's a fucking valliant WIN in there, on our side. Big time.  And if becomes Federal law that no state can trample on...

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by 98Z5V

[jtallen83]

8 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

This is the exact same process that you need to go through to get NFA items approved - and many here have already done it.  You go through this process, and you get your "Semi-Auto License."  Done. It's good, for anything semi-auto, AND suppressors AND SBRs/short-barreled whatever.

If it is a repeal the NFA and replace with a semi auto license I might think about it.....thought about it, just repeal the fuking NFA and get the Fuk out of my 2A.

It all sounds too much like the creepy guy that asks the kids if they want a sucker,l the kid gets something sweet but what comes after could be life altering.

[98Z5V]

Just now, jtallen83 said:

If it is a repeal the NFA and replace with a semi auto license I might think about it.....thought about it, just repeal the fuking NFA and get the Fuk out of my 2A.

Brother - it pretty much IS. Free suppressors and Short-barreled anything in the process to approve "Semi-Auto License" laws.

That article spells it out.  Shiit, it's like having a license to buy whatever you want, ANY semi-auto pistol or rifle, ANY suppressor, ANY short-barreled-whatever...  Just pass the background check, with fingerprints, picture, paperwork packet.  BAM!  Get your license.

You already did that once - to get at least one suppressor. 

What's the difference?

I'll tell you what the difference is, right here.  You think that Parkland fuk would have been approved to have a suppressor, or SBR?  You think that Waffle House fuk would have passed those same checks?  Fuk no, they wouldn't have.

THIS is a way to get into the "mental" side of it for semi-auto firearms, without getting into HIPPA bullshiit. 

"Oh, sorry, you didn't pass.  You don't get your semi-auto license.  However, you can appeal here..." 

You guys aren't looking into everything in that article.  This is a win for us all, looks like a "compromise" to the gun grabbers, and doesn't affect any - ANY - legal gun owner.  In fact, it give legal gun owners an easy way to legally obtain NFA items...

You guys can't cling to the "NOT ONE MORE INCH!!!" mentality into the future, and not think that it's gonna backfire.  It will.  It could have already, but we got lucky with The Donald.  Otherwise, it would have already been gone.  The "not one more inch" mentality of zero compromise won't last, in the future, once it's Dem-controlled everything.  Felons.  All of us.  As soon as those elections are over.

Call me the Harbinger of Death, call me an idiot, call me whatever you want.  The very next time that Dems control everything, you'll be calling me a fucking prophet, for seeing this shiit before it happened.

"Not one more inch" isn't going to solve this shiit, so those on that bandwagon better figure out a plan. That zero-tolerance attitude is gonna backfire.

This article linked in the first post is a brilliant plan, to defeat that shiit forever. 

If "forever" comes, and they eventually want to come for everything, even those with the "Semi-Auto LIcense," then it won't matter anyway.  The revolution would have already been going.

[blue109]

And when your late mortgage payment or overdue library book gets your semi auto government approval stamp flagged? 

 

Im no longer in the one more inch crowd. Im in the I want my inches back crowd. I want to buy suppressed AR15s on amazon prime with free 2 day shipping. Compromise with the left is a trap. It will never satisfy them and it will be a stepping stone for the next fight.  for decades they have asked for the stars, and recieved only a brick. We pat ourselves on the back for the "win". The next fight they ask for the stars and we win by offering up another brick. Over and over. here we sit in the penthouse of the tower of babel. Those stars only look a few bricks away. 

 

So want it all. I want machine guns for felons. Grenade launchers for school kids. I want to detonate the entire tower. I want the left to compromise, and counter offer to remove one step. It will be a loss for us, and a win for them to congratulate each other on. There is no other direction that ends with armed civilians. There just isnt. 

[Matt.Cross]

23 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

This is the exact same process that you need to go through to get NFA items approved - and many here have already done it.  You go through this process, and you get your "Semi-Auto License."  Done. It's good, for anything semi-auto, AND suppressors AND SBRs/short-barreled whatever.

It's screwed up for the minority of gun owners who are pursuing NFA ownership. It's not going to be better when this is scaled up to everyone who has a semi-automatic.

I have read the article 3 times now to be sure I'm not overlooking something. Based on the arguments he countered in the article, the people he bounced this off of weren't smart enough.

We have examples of things like attempted national CCP reciprocity to prove that states will never forfeit their ability to regulate beyond the scope of Federal law.

[98Z5V]

7 minutes ago, blue109 said:

And when your late mortgage payment or overdue library book gets your semi auto government approval stamp flagged?

When was the last time a late mortgage payment a denial on a 4473?   Why was the last time an overdue library book a denial on a 4473?

When was the last time a misdemeanor conviction, that wasn't domestic violence, a denial on a 4473?...

When?

Edited April 29, 2018 by 98Z5V

[jtallen83]

6 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

That article spells it out.  Shiit, it's like having a license to buy whatever you want, ANY semi-auto pistol or rifle, ANY suppressor, ANY short-barreled-whatever...  Just pass the background check, with fingerprints, picture, paperwork packet.  BAM!  Get your license.

You already did that once - to get at least one suppressor. 

Did the trust thing, no fingerprints, no picturers, still had to swallow the vomit that kept rising in my throat. Feel free to keep living in their paradigm,  Realistic or not I choose to change the paradigm.

4 minutes ago, blue109 said:

Im no longer in the one more inch crowd. Im in the I want my inches back crowd.

This right here is where we should be. We need to create our own reality, not live in theirs. If we don't make repeal the NFA our goal it will damn sure never happen.

[98Z5V]

You guys fuk around like this, and we'll be Australia.  I'm just sayin'.

It's time to come up with a plan, and when someone presents one, it's the same thing everytime - "NO!  NOTHING!  EVER!"

That's gonna backfire, I'm telling you now.

Come up with a plan, instead of denying everything.  Do it.

Edited April 29, 2018 by 98Z5V

[blue109]

Baby steps. 

https://www.naturalnews.com/047816_Veterans_Administration_Second_Amendment_mental_health.html

[98Z5V]

2 minutes ago, blue109 said:

Baby steps. 

https://www.naturalnews.com/047816_Veterans_Administration_Second_Amendment_mental_health.html

I made damn sure I made them evaluate me for PTSD before I retired.  I got a rating, too. It's 0%. 

That's about as official as the VA needs it to be, and they can never fuk with me again for it.

 

That's also 4 years old, too - better think about the future, and out-think them.  What you quoted was one way they can get you.  What is the future plan, to out-think them?

Edited April 29, 2018 by 98Z5V

[jtallen83]

1 minute ago, 98Z5V said:

I made damn sure I made them evaluate me for PTSD before I retired.  I got a rating, too. It's 0%. 

That's about as official as the VA needs it to be, and they can never fuk with me again for it.

What about your brothers? Maybe your good, my nephew had issues, he worked on it and is good now, no worries. You gonna let them take his guns because some jackoff decides he ain't good?

[98Z5V]

Just now, jtallen83 said:

What about your brothers? Maybe your good, my nephew had issues, he worked on it and is good now, no worries. You gonna let them take his guns because some jackoff decides he ain't good?

Nope, and don't turn this on me.  Get evaluated, get current evaluations documented, and update your status.  That's the cure to shiit like that.

I'm not gonna let anyone take anything - that's not my call.  You talk to the people who deal with that, that IS their call.

[blue109]

Future plan? We have a choice. I dont imaging it going any other way.

Or

Edited April 29, 2018 by blue109

[98Z5V]

54 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

"Compromise" in this isn't an option.  There will be some compromise, in the future, if we keep holding on to the "Nothing!  Ever!!!" mentality.  The only problem is...  if we keep going down this road, the "compromise" will not be to our liking, not in the least.  It won't be a compromise.

Think about this - how much "compromise" do you think would be going on right now if Hitlery beat The Donald?  And in 2018, she corrupted the elections into a Dem-controlled everything?

You wouldn't have any fucking "compromise" anything.  We'd all be Felons, retroactively. 

Period.

You guys that want to quote now, and pick things apart, go back an answer this one...

Edited April 29, 2018 by 98Z5V

[blue109]

Maybe thats what we need. Little spark for the tinder...

[98Z5V]

26 minutes ago, blue109 said:

Im no longer in the one more inch crowd. Im in the I want my inches back crowd. I want to buy suppressed AR15s on amazon prime with free 2 day shipping.

Do you not understand, that under this article quoted - that is exactly what you could do?...

[blue109]

So long as the crown wills it..

 

My above post and its implications could send me to prison in quite a few places around the world. Are you confident we are immune from that eventuality?  Im not. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by blue109

[98Z5V]

30 minutes ago, blue109 said:

Im no longer in the one more inch crowd. Im in the I want my inches back crowd. I want to buy suppressed AR15s on amazon prime with free 2 day shipping.

 

3 hours ago, 308kiwi said:

So here's a perspective from a system based on individual firearms licenses for citizens....

We don't have a 2nd Amendment to protect us in NZ, owning firearms here is considered a privilege rather than a right although you can argue that the definition of privilege extends to it being a right, but that's not what I'm here posting about.

What I can tell you is the pro's and con's of a system based on individuals having a 'firearms license' because that's exactly what we have had here for decades and it works pretty well.

Obtaining a FAL, (FireArms License) here is a matter of applying to the police, they do a thorough background check on you, interview your referee's and visit your home to check that you have adequate security for storage of firearms, once that's all done you're issued your FAL, it lasts for ten years before needing renewal, (a simple process).

So now you have your FAL, (std FAL covers all your bolt actions, pump actions and semi autos up to 7 round capacity), then you can apply for individual endorsements to go onto your FAL, (adding endorsements does require upgraded security for storage),  a "B" endorsement allows you to buy handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4", a "C" endorsement allows you to buy anything full auto, belt feds etc and sub compact pistols, no 'tax stamps' or the like, I can buy a belt fed or an M16 or an Uzi same day if I so desire, a "D" endorsement allows you to deal in and manufacture firearms including full auto, a bit like your 'FFL', an  "E" endorsement allows you to buy all your semi auto stuff, AR's etc etc with unlimited mag capacity. (all B, C and E firearms are recorded to your FAL and if you sell them the 'ownership' is recorded to the new owners FAL)

That's a very basic run down, but what it pretty much means is I can go to any gun shop or buy any firearm from any other dealer or private citizen and have it sent to me direct, no farting around with having it shipped to a dealer, no questions asked, no extra background checks, I've already been vetted to hell and back and been deemed 'fit and proper', simple as that, for B, C and E sales all I need do is fill out the procurement forms that you can download online and e-mail to the local police and they 'rubber stamp' it, normally immediately or at worst the same/next day.

So the con's are that the govt has all my info, ummm, so when did they not?, they already know everything about me through my tax info, my medical records, my drivers license, etc etc, they have a record of all my B, C and E firearms, do I care?, nope, is it a pathway to confiscation?, well it's been in place for decades here and we're still doing OK, although the tin foil milliners will have you believe otherwise.

One other point, we don't have a State/Federal system here, it's one system that covers the entire country so is probably a little easier to implement than what it would be in the US.

 

 

 

 

[98Z5V]

^^^  That system is already in process, and has so been for 10 years. 

[98Z5V]

Just now, Matt.Cross said:

Well, to quote the old mare herself...

"At this point, what difference does it make?"

None. I don't give a flying fart what is going to be outlawed, or what would've already if which criminal were hypothetically running this country. If you can be a criminal at the highest levels of government in this country without consequence, what does it matter if you arbitrarily make gun owners criminals too?

You didn't answer the question I posed, but instead, just posed another question.

This about this - how much "compromise" do you think would be going on right now if Hitlery beat The Donald?  And in 2018, she corrupted the elections into a Dem-controlled everything?

Please answer that ^^^...

[Sisco]

I have been thinking about thhis for a while, and perhaps you haven’t noticed, but every time there is a mass shooting incident the push back against firearms gets stronger and stronger. And it is going to continue. It may take until my generation dies off to succeed, but you look at demographics, and the younger generations are pushing firearm control or bans! The more “incidents” the stronger the push for an outright ban will be. The only thing that will potentially stop that is eliminating these “incidents”. Tom has defended the concept far better than I ever could, but we either take reasonable steps now, or wait until NRA or not, the popular concensus is overwhelmingly against firearm ownership. We need to solve this problem now before we reach that point, and I think this might very well be a way to accomplish that, and still let us responsible owners have our Black Rifles.

[blue109]

A term is only 4 years. A hillary will win in 2024 if not 2020. Regan did more damage than obama did. but with that said...how is agreeing to more licencing now going to have any effect when the team pulling the strings just alter it as they see fit? How is this not opening the door to having all your rights removed in one swoop by denying you that permit?

 

As sisco pointed out...much of the youth has been hopelessly indoctrinated against firearms...so we can already write the 2A off in the next 30 years. Ill be amazed if we even recognize this country at that point though. Rome is falling. Cycle of life

Edited April 29, 2018 by blue109

[Matt.Cross]

Just now, 98Z5V said:

You didn't answer the question I posed, but instead, just posed another question.

This about this - how much "compromise" do you think would be going on right now if Hitlery beat The Donald?  And in 2018, she corrupted the elections into a Dem-controlled everything?

Please answer that ^^^...

I'll take a stab at it...

I believe the status quo with regards to 2A interests would be unchanged.

As far as we know, none of the shootings that have transpired because of who is in office. People generally don't base their reactions to school shootings and Waffle House shootings on who is in office either. How many people in Congress and the House have changed seats since Trump was elected? Not that many.

Hillary is the same as any other career politician, tell the feel-good lies to your base and anyone else who might listen, and when you get into office do whatever the hell you please.

[jtallen83]

2 minutes ago, blue109 said:

Maybe thats what we need. Little spark for the tinder...

Yes, let's get the fertilizing over with!

Food for thought from people that were there;

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” 
― Samuel Adams

When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.
Thomas Jefferson

Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.

Thomas Jefferson

It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority.
Benjamin Franklin

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

James Madison

3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

You didn't answer the question I posed, but instead, just posed another question.

There would have been little to none. What would happen if a person like Hitlery were to inherit a licence system in the future?

 

[98Z5V]

You're ignoring one thing, in that, though.  Hitlery would have started right away with a ban, and she would stop until she got it. Just like Bar-fornicate, with "his phone and pen..."

Don't tell me that wouldn't have happened, and wouldn't have been one of her first agendas, right after selling more uraniuim to Russia, and putting The Donald in prison for his heinous crimes of Colluding with Russians...