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Andreas6.5AR

New JD Machine/JP Rifle build

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:) Just underway with my first AR build.

Matched Receiver set: JD Machine 7.62mm/.308

Complete Bolt Carrier Assembly: JP Rifles JPBC-4A

Lower Parts (without trigger): Fulton Armories

Upper Parts: from Fulton Armories, though with this bolt system the Forward assist serves no purpose except to plug the hole.

Grip: Magpul MIAD kit Flat Dark Earth from Fulton Armories

Stock: Magpul PRS Flat Dark Earth with Fulton Armories Tube and Buffer

Buffer Spring: Tubbs flat wire CS spring (Superior Shooting)

The MIAD gave me some trouble here. The spring for the safety detente would slip down as there is no real surface in the grip for it to have any support. I cut three short pieces off of a 1/4 inch wide zip tie and crazy glued them together against the inside the wall of the MAID grip and shaved it down with a Dremel. Worked perfectly.

Waiting on MechArmor TacOps-1 charge handle and Geissele SSA-E trigger

Looking to get 22 inch Kreiger Barrrel installed in either 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5 x 47 Lapua but have to decide on the Muzzle treatment (BABC by BattleComp, JPRE-9 from JP rifles or a "V" port vaporizer or Mini-X-treme from Straight Shot Gunsmithing http://straightshotgunsmithing.com/).

Also still have to decide on the hand guards... leaning toward either a JP-V-Tac style (wish they had Flat Dark Earth ... love the look of the Troy  VTAC Rail TRX Extreme but they don't make it for  AR10/308 ... yet), Superior Weapons Systems (E-1) or a Samson type Battle Rail or???? (Suggestions?).

Needing to color the mags and probably the Battle Rail/hand guard too so looking for best durable coating method here, although Magpul covers and rail inserts may do the trick just fine. Suggestions for best coating material on plastic and which color match is best to go with the Magpul?

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Thanks very much for the info. I was reading that in your JP forum.

Actually I am very thankful to all of you here for having so much good and useful information available. It was a tremendous help during my investigations and learning phase. I had no idea it got this complicated and then it sort of got all clear to me pretty quickly. I am sure I am still missing a thing or two, but that is the beauty of this kind of mechanical things... things to learn, adapt to and improve upon.

A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people.

Will Rogers

and my favorite:

There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.

Will Rogers

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Happy Happy Joy Joy,

More parts have been coming in.

Received and installed the Geiselle SSA-E trigger, so smooth and such a crisp break,

MechArmor TachOps1 charging handle is a nice fit

Apex Machine rifle length Gator Grip Handguard and top rail is so cool but I need the barrel nut. This item looks really well machined, though it is pricey (but comparable to the competition). Some nice pictures of it on rifles at Crusader Arms. Had to try their SlipStream gun lube package.

Now waiting on CeraKote from Brownells to try and coat the raised parts on the hand guard flat dark earth and leave the low sections  black. Going to have to try and do something different for Cerakote application here because masking that much detail would be hell. And I just bought a beauty of a Paasche dual action airbrush for the job.... I'll find a use for it yet.

Also waiting on the assembled JP adjustable gas block with gas tube, Samson barrel nut from Optics Planet, that I might have to have machined to fit the hand guard. These should be here this week.

I think I have decided to go with a custom built muzzle treatment of my own design that I know is going to cost a small fortune to have made. I think the whole thing would look really 21st century with a Burris Eliminator mounted on top.

Next big step be sending in the receiver, bolt assembly, gas system and barrel nut to Kreiger for barrel installation. I'll just have them thread the end and cap it for now.

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This all sounds awesome!

Instead of masking your handguard, could you try filling the grooves with a clay or putty? Then paint as usual. When the paint is dry, just push out the filler. I have no (read: almost ZERO) painting knowledge... But it seems like it would work  <dontknow> I Cerakoted my Apex all dark OD.

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Another option to look at would be the Larue rail index clips, http://www.laruetactical.com/indexclips-72-piece-set

I ordered a set of these to paint pink (I know!) for the OL. I had originally thought about going a similar route as you're talking about.  But, if she decides she wants a different for end or something, I'd be stuck trying to sell a pink $300 rail.

Anyway, the come in lots of colors, to include dark earth.

Just a thought.

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Thanks for the great responses everyone. I received the Apex Gator grip and the Samson Barrel Nut this week and the gas system and Cerakote are in the apartment office waiting for me. I spent about 3 hours trying to mask it up with special plastic stuff but finally gave up.

I saw a beauty of a job done with wax (crayon on a Glock) after the Cerakote for filling the writing, but I am not that steady I can get it only in the grove portions and I am not sure what effect the Cerakote would have on it if done to mask the area and how to clean only the upper areas after  application but before painting. My understanding is Cerakote works best on a grit blasted surface. So I will go back to my original thought for now and see how it works. in the worst case I figure I will just have to paint the whole thing.

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It sounds like your going to have a very distinctive rifle when your done, and a great mix of top quality parts. I have yet to try any coating (ceracoat/duracoat, etc) on anything other than a pistol magwell. I didn't find it to be as durable as I would have liked. he pattern that you describe for your handguard, painted vs masked sections, might not be the best as far as wear goes. If i understand it correctly you'd like to paint the raised squares while masking the lower grooves. Although this might visually look the most striking initially, I think that if you actually shoot the gun offhand regularly, your going to find that the painted finish will wear off all of those raised squares in an uneven manner, which may not look too good down the road. You might get a more durable result if you were to flat clear the whole handguard after the FDE on the raised sections. You probably should take lots of pictures of the finished gun before you start using it, because it may not look that way after your using it regularly unless you shoot with a bipod and don't hold the handguard much. Just a thought.

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I'm with Jgun on this. Cera/dura-coat is supposed to be long lasting, but nothing is forever. You'll get longer lasting results painting the grooves. Easier to mask too.

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The MIAD gave me some trouble here. The spring for the safety detente would slip down as there is no real surface in the grip for it to have any support.

Safety detent, here, or the rear takedown detent?  There IS a place in the MIAD for the safety detent, and it should have worked perfectly in the .308.  The rear takedown is another story, though.  No shelf or formed area in the MIAD for a downward-facing takedown spring, because the MIAD was designed on the AR-15 (rear-facing takedown detent) platform.

Sure it's for the safety, that you're referring to?

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You are absolutely right it was the rear take down detent.

As for the rest... well I experimented but came back to taking much of the finish off and reapplying a uniform coat of Ceracoat... it seems to stick really well actually. Looks like I might have to do the stock and pistol grip too though to get a better match. Using a flask makes it look even worse so the photos I took here are with normal lighting, loosing a bit of detail afterward.

Mostly finished now... it is heavy but very sweet. Need a bipod system but I want to do something custom there. All in good time though, too much to do otherwise right now.

Merry Christmas to everyone.

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Andreas, did you drill/tap/set screw that rear takedown detent - the "AR-15 takedown detent mod?"  That's the fix for running a MIAD or MOE grip on a .308 AR.  <thumbsup>

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Thanks for the review and for the fix....

Woulda shoulda, but couldn'ta with my current tools. I don't have a proper drill press set up nor tap and die set to put a set screw in... but that is a very elegant and permanent means to do it. As I get more into the gunsmithing side of things I hope to be able to do that. For this build I just built up the inside of the grip under the detent with plastic strips and crazy glue then shaved it conform precisely with a Dremel tool. Seems to have worked well.

Unfortunately the local range is closed here, until the end of January I am told, but I am very anxious to go and put a few rounds down range. Will report back as soon as completed (before proper break in too).

Slowly acquiring all my hand loading equipment too.

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Very attractive and distinctive gun. Very impressive for your first ever rifle build. I've been wanting to powder coat a gun in FDE for quite a while but I'm worried that I'll regret doing it if the finish isn't durable. I keep thinking that I should do it on a low dollar AR 15 build first. Maybe I'll get brave this year.

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I've noticed that on "tan" guns that get scratched up, where the tan was applied over an existing black hard coat, the scratches really stand out because of the contrast between the black and tan. I was thinking that an upper/lower/hanguard set that was in the white might be a better way to go.

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Powdercoat is strong stuff.  I get alot of that in the powersports arena.  It does add thickness, no matter what, so just make sure that whoever does the work for you does some good taping first.  You won't want that stuff on any precision-fit areas.  Tape the holes the the FCG pins, the safety, the magwell, etc.  If not, you'll be doing alot of "after" work to get the lower and upper together.

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Initial Range Report:

As Tested:

  JD Machine Tech upper and Lower

  JP Rifles Enhanced bolt system and adjustable gas block

  Fulton Armory 6.5 Creedmoor National Match 24" Barrel

  Fulton Armory Buffer

  Fulton Armory upper and lower small parts kit

  Samson Barrel nut

  Mech Armor Tac-Ops charging handle

  Magpul MIAD Pistol and PRS stock

  Tubb 2000 flat wire spring

  Apex Gator Grip hand guard

  Hawke Sidewinder 30 Scope, 4 - 16 x 50 half mil dot

  Burris PEPR scope mount

Laser sighted at home to about 10 yards with a unit designed for 308 use so not perfect.

Lead Sled Solo (the cheaper one that can adapt for the magazine if no weight is used on the tray (and we didn't use any weights there).

Miserable rainy day in North Alabama, but i wasn't going to miss my first opportunity to give it a try...

The bad... didn't have the right Allen Key with me to adjust the gas block so while it was ejecting the cases it wouldn't go back far enough to reload on cycle.

50 yard range to get sighted in is all we did... also because of other guns we had along, cowboy, old 6.5 mm Swede and pistols.

The good... first two shots were far left and slightly high (~ 8 inches...on next target). First scope adjustment to the right and was at 1 inch upper left, next adjustment dead on middle bulls-eye. Next two shots almost in the same hole (~ o.4" edge to edge for all three shots).

Next up was my friend Ken who took three shots too, After the first one he looked up bewildered and I asked how he did, and he said, "Bulls-eye" a little low left off center (I mean less than a bullet diameter from center) and the next two he had all well connected to one another.

The whole set up is a bit heavy but that is a heavy scope and that 24" stainless bull barrel is a lot of forward weight to carry. Still, I am very pleased with it so far... can't wait to take it out for some longer range testing. I just need to get a good top mount bi-pod like the one on the German DSR-1.

This should be one sweet long range set up.

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Hi Andreas6.5, are you using PMAGS in this build? It looks like you just got it running this month. Congrats on a nice build!! Oh and in your JD lower isn't there a thru hole that is also threaded 6-32 for the take down pin detent & spring to live in? Located from the rear of receiver where butt stock flushes againts. I have JD lower and mine has this option along with traditional option down there at the grip. I have MIAD so I used secondary option no problems. loctite'd a 6-32 set screw behind spring and it's good.

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Hello NoFail and thanks so much for the information I will definitely check it out. Yes I am using the PMags with absolutely no issues this thing runs like a champ. About 150 rounds through it and since setting the adjustable gas block only three that didn't either reload or totally clear the chamber... I could turn up the gas a bit more but didn't' want to fuss with it today.

Great day at the range... (100 yards) At first very frustrating couldn't get good groups with the AMax 140 gr and worse with the 129 gr. After I took a break, my neighbor at the range asked if he could try on his stand and rear bag and I said sure... he had a nice selection of various target rifles. He took 4 shots, 0.74 center to center and said, "There is nothing wrong with that gun, it is a fine piece of equipment."

With his set up I took two shot groups to empty the mag and ... WOW, the first set , three bulls 0.4 inch center to center and the second three grouped at 0.6 inches but out of the bulls-eye, I guess I was over excited from the first set I could feel the adrenaline rush.... see the pictures... I am happy!

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Hello NoFail and thanks so much for the information I will definitely check it out. Yes I am using the PMags with absolutely no issues this thing runs like a champ. About 150 rounds through it and since setting the adjustable gas block only three that didn't either reload or totally clear the chamber... I could turn up the gas a bit more but didn't' want to fuss with it today.

Great day at the range... (100 yards) At first very frustrating couldn't get good groups with the AMax 140 gr and worse with the 129 gr. After I took a break, my neighbor at the range asked if he could try on his stand and rear bag and I said sure... he had a nice selection of various target rifles. He took 4 shots, 0.74 center to center and said, "There is nothing wrong with that gun, it is a fine piece of equipment."

With his set up I took two shot groups to empty the mag and ... WOW, the first set , three bulls 0.4 inch center to center and the second three grouped at 0.6 inches but out of the bulls-eye, I guess I was over excited from the first set I could feel the adrenaline rush.... see the pictures... I am happy!

Andreas this is great news!! I am encouraged to see how accurate you are shooting from 100, good job. I don't have my upper yet from JDM as they put me on backorder when I was expecting the set all at once and they sent me just the lower. Not too happy about that at all!! I wonder how well the upper will fit with the lower I already have when obviously it won't really be a "matched set", as I understand what that should mean anyway. If they fit tight together & no slop & pin holes line up good then that will be fine I guess.

I'm willing to bet my left butt cheek your lower is exactly like mine with the 2nd detent install location. Thanks for the response I hope Pmags will work great in mine too.

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Hello NoFail, sorry to hear that... a real bummer not to get both halves at once... though from the entire thread here I have no doubt it will be a finely matched set. Just look at all the comments about the tightness of their tolerances.

Thanks for the compliments on the shooting, I am just a rank amateur but hope to improve significantly still. I wonder how much more I can squeeze out of the rifle though. It was another good day at the range yesterday, I moved the bi-pod back about 6 inches (in the evening another 4 inches or so), and definitely a sandbag at the stock end to help steady the left hand holding the stock will help. For those reasons not as impressive as the day before but still mostly sub MOA. I was using a couple of empty ammo boxes for support, not ideal but an improvement was noticed already.

What are you considering for a barrel?

I am contemplating building another this year and I am pretty sure it will be built on a JDM set.  I just feel theirs has the nicest cleanest lines for Tacti-kewl look. The attention at the range bears that out. Lots of people trying it out and taking pictures of it. I would like to build a lighter shorter barreled (but not short barrel... still 18 to 20 inch) combat rifle, something lighter and easier to maneuver. I will probably go 6.5 Creedmoor again to keep my reloading simple. I was debating going AR15 platform in Grendel but I like the extra power behind the CM, though I do like the ease of staying on target with the lighter load and bullets.  I don't know for sure but it sort of seems like the Grendel has sort of petered out in popularity.

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Hello again, Andreas, yeah i think it will all be okay. Their stuff looks good to me, i'm not having any nightmares, but still  <dontknow>

What is the twist rate of your barrel? Those seem like pretty light boolits your shooting. Mine will be 1:10 twist and I will be hand loading mostly 168 gn is what I envision. I thought 140 gn was just about minimum for our cartridge but then again I ain't no expert in the least, it's just what I have read and heard.

I have the link for you to my build as it is so far, all parts are ordered for the gun itself, I have received most of them ----> http://308ar.com/forum/building-a-308ar/my-official-lr-308-build-thread/

Now I have to get some glass and a bi-pod, a sling too, oh and swivel mounts for that sling and some Magpul rail covers, shoot I'm not done yet. SWFA is soon coming out with a new 1-6x24 scope with FFP and awesome reticules. They say they want to offer it for under $1000 so I am expecting like $999.95, yeah must save for that & I already have 2500 into this thing, LOL!!!

So yeah I hear you this is addicting. I am also contemplating another build, but will have to let the little lady cool off awhile  :o  I'm all hot and bothered now about a 300 BLK  <munch>  Apparently one can be built using all traditional AR15 parts. When my brain recovers from this .308 build I don't see how I am going to avoid the 300 BLK itch I am already getting and start researching that. And when I discovered Seekins Precision products that kind of put me over the top. They make some gorgeous receivers and hand guards to go with them, though they are pricey too. My wife wants a new pistol so guess I better take care of that for her first  ;)

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What is the twist rate of your barrel? Those seem like pretty light boolits your shooting. Mine will be 1:10 twist and I will be hand loading mostly 168 gn is what I envision. I thought 140 gn was just about minimum for our cartridge but then again I ain't no expert in the least, it's just what I have read and heard.

You did catch that he built a 6.5 Creedmore, not a .308 Winchester, right?

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