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Red Dog Leader

New PSA P10 PROBLEMS FEEDING.

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Hello,
I have a brand new :
PSA Gen3 PA10 18" Mid-Length .308 WIN 1:10 Stainless Steel 15" Lightweight M-lok Upper - With BCG & CH
PSA Gen3 PA10 Complete STR 2-Stage .308 Lower With Over Molded Grip

Its failing to chamber the next round

“YESTERDAY, SHOT ~25 RNDS each OF FED GGM 175 SMK, HOR 168 ELD, PRVI PARTIZAN MATCH 308 WINCHESTER AMMO 155’S


2- 10 RND MAGPUL  PMAGS LR/SR GENM3, 2- 20 RND PMAG/GENM3 LR/SR WERE USED SHOOTING THE ABOVE ROUNDS.


NOT 1 OF THESE MAGS WERE ABLE TO FEED THE COMPLETE MAG WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE AMMUNITION.


USUALLY IT WOULD CHAMBER 1ST ROUND, CHAMBER/FIRE SECOND ROUND, THEN WOULD FAIL TO FEED 3RD ROUND…OR MAYBE 6TH ROUND…. OR RAMDOM….”


Have contacted PSA yesterday….i’m more of a bolt action guy, but wanted to know what I can check on this rifle. 
Thanks for the help…
 

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6 hours ago, Red Dog Leader said:

Hello,
I have a brand new :
PSA Gen3 PA10 18" Mid-Length .308 WIN 1:10 Stainless Steel 15" Lightweight M-lok Upper - With BCG & CH
PSA Gen3 PA10 Complete STR 2-Stage .308 Lower With Over Molded Grip

Its failing to chamber the next round

“YESTERDAY, SHOT ~25 RNDS each OF FED GGM 175 SMK, HOR 168 ELD, PRVI PARTIZAN MATCH 308 WINCHESTER AMMO 155’S


2- 10 RND MAGPUL  PMAGS LR/SR GENM3, 2- 20 RND PMAG/GENM3 LR/SR WERE USED SHOOTING THE ABOVE ROUNDS.


NOT 1 OF THESE MAGS WERE ABLE TO FEED THE COMPLETE MAG WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE AMMUNITION.


USUALLY IT WOULD CHAMBER 1ST ROUND, CHAMBER/FIRE SECOND ROUND, THEN WOULD FAIL TO FEED 3RD ROUND…OR MAYBE 6TH ROUND…. OR RAMDOM….”


Have contacted PSA yesterday….i’m more of a bolt action guy, but wanted to know what I can check on this rifle. 
Thanks for the help…
 

Use a heavy oil like motor oil on your bolt carrier group, and lots of it. That's pretty much Rule #1 for diagnosing large AR problems in a brand new gun.

After resolving the lube issue, give us some dimensional details about your recoil system, namely the internal depth of your buffer tube, the relaxed length of your recoil spring, and the length of your recoil buffer. A measuring tape will suffice for measurement, and pictures of said items with the measurements even more useful.

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That receiver extension looks like it's longer than 7.000" internal depth.  Measure that part accurately.

Best thing to do is just order up the Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System (kit) - the real-deal Armalite parts, not copies - then punch your gas port up to 0.080"~0.085".  I can guarantee you that PSA shipped that barrel config with a 0.070" gas port diameter, and that's too damn small for that barrel setup.

That ejector face is square as hell - that might need addressed in the future, but for right now, you need the gun to run in order to find that out.  Square ejector faces tend to screw up feeding from the right side of the magazine. 

Edited by 98Z5V

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10 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

That receiver extension looks like it's longer than 7.000" internal depth.  Measure that part accurately.

Best thing to do is just order up the Armalite AR-10 Carbine Recoil System (kit) - the real-deal Armalite parts, not copies - then punch your gas port up to 0.080"~0.085".  I can guarantee you that PSA shipped that barrel config with a 0.070" gas port diameter, and that's too damn small for that barrel setup.

That ejector face is square as hell - that might need addressed in the future, but for right now, you need the gun to run in order to find that out.  Square ejector faces tend to screw up feeding from the right side of the magazine. 

Ok, this good?

 

20200722_213440.jpg

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Looks like that extension needs to go in another full turn.  It should be flush with the ears on the lower receiver, and it's not.  The extension looks like 7.000" depth - but it's not in the receiver like it should be - and that creates an overall depth issue.

try to get a pic it it, just like that pic above - in another turn.  Show me what that looks like.  You might have to remove the buffer retainer to do that.

Edited by 98Z5V

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3 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

Looks like that extension needs to go in another full turn.  It should be flush with the ears on the lower receiver, and it's not.  The extension looks like 7.000" depth - but it's not in the receiver like it should be - and that creates an overall depth issue.

try to get a pic it it, just like that pic above - in another turn.  Show me what that looks like.  You might have to remove the buffer retainer to do that.

ok, will try tomorrow and post...thanks.

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1 hour ago, Red Dog Leader said:

Thanks guys, appreciate the help.

CAR-10 Buffer - 5.5 ounces - $100
CAR-10 Buffer + .308 Carbine Buffer Spring

This is what your suggesting correct?

 

Yes. Unless you would prefer to install another buffer tube, in which case you can get everything you need in another kit from ArmaLite.

 

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7 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

Yes. Unless you would prefer to install another buffer tube, in which case you can get everything you need in another kit from ArmaLite.

 

Not being an expert on AR15/10's is why I came to this forum...i'l go with your suggestion on the original part suggestion...if that route taken.

I have received a RMA from PSA. They want to look at it.

My sons bought this rifle as a retirement gift for me, I feel bad about the problems so far and they feel worse.... 

On another note, I'm assuming the heavier buffer will allow the bolt to strip a round out of mag more forcibly?

 

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20 minutes ago, Red Dog Leader said:

Not being an expert on AR15/10's is why I came to this forum...i'l go with your suggestion on the original part suggestion...if that route taken.

I have received a RMA from PSA. They want to look at it.

My sons bought this rifle as a retirement gift for me, I feel bad about the problems so far and they feel worse.... 

On another note, I'm assuming the heavier buffer will allow the bolt to strip a round out of mag more forcibly?

 

We've had more than our fair share of "my PA-10 doesn't work" folks come through. PSA isn't losing any sleep at night over the fact that their platform doesn't work. One of our experts volunteered the information to correct their issues at no cost to them, and they didn't care enough to hear him out.

Yes, the heavier buffer and better spring will increase feeding reliability. You'll probably have to drill your gas port up in size too, but try the new spring buffer combo first.

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15 minutes ago, Red Dog Leader said:

just weighed, 3.8. 

Doesn't even belong in a .308AR in the first place.  Not enough ASS to control the MASS - the moving mass and weight of a .308AR BCG... 

That's why you're gonna find that your gas port diameter on that barrel is 0.070", too - they made a smaller gas port in order to try to "band-aid" using  WAY cheaper, lighter buffer - lighter buffers don't cost as much money, and a 2.500" long buffer that weighs about 5.4oz must have a stainless steel body, to get to that weight - and that's WITH two tungsten weights inside it...  They elected to not spend the money on the stainless steel body, and get it right, and instead just use an aluminum body.  There's your 3.8oz buffer...  Save that buffer, though -there's two tungsten weights in it that you can use on something else. 

You'll need to drill up that gas port, before this thing will run right, with any ammo that you can throw in it.  I can promise you that. 

Edited by 98Z5V

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7 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Doesn't even belong in a .308AR in the first place.  Not enough ASS to control the MASS - the moving mass and weight of a .308AR BCG... 

You'll need to drill up that gas port, before this thing will run right, with any ammo that you can throw in it.  I can promise you that. 

Thanks 98Z5V/M.C.

Just purchased heavier buffer and spring...

Upper has an adjustable gas block.

So, once buffer/spring installed, will test fire again and check performance.

Then if needed adjust gas port...

 

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So that we all know, DC Machine makes the majority of barrels that PSA is selling in todays market. Having some of these same problems I phoned a friend and took him my barrel. They checked it and I went over some of the concerns that I have seen here. The barrel was tested, like to the micron, along with checking the gas port. It was dead on. I get it that the information yall put out is making guns run but seeing first hand what they are doing over there I feel like the barrels are not the problem. They have a few fellows that shoot competition and we talked over a few fixes. He recombination was to switch over to rifle buffer setup. Just his 2 cents. Not knocking what yall are doing here. 

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15 minutes ago, Neptune47 said:

So that we all know, DC Machine makes the majority of barrels that PSA is selling in todays market. Having some of these same problems I phoned a friend and took him my barrel. They checked it and I went over some of the concerns that I have seen here. The barrel was tested, like to the micron, along with checking the gas port. It was dead on. I get it that the information yall put out is making guns run but seeing first hand what they are doing over there I feel like the barrels are not the problem. They have a few fellows that shoot competition and we talked over a few fixes. He recombination was to switch over to rifle buffer setup. Just his 2 cents. Not knocking what yall are doing here. 

DC Machine is old news - PSA bought them, years ago.   So, what was the gas port diameter?  Doesn't matter switching over to a rifle recoil system - know what a rifle buffer weighs?  5.4oz.

Your adjustable gas block will only go "wide-open", and it's not gonna make any more gas flow at wide-open, than that 0.070" gas port will allow.

You smell what I'm spreading, yet?...   :popcorn:

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48 minutes ago, Neptune47 said:

It was dead on.

In what regard? Remember that we're trying to give folks useful information, saying your barrel was "dead on" without any frame of reference isn't as useful or compelling as it could be, so please expound on that point a bit.

51 minutes ago, Neptune47 said:

I get it that the information yall put out is making guns run but seeing first hand what they are doing over there I feel like the barrels are not the problem.

Nobody's here to tell you what to feel, but your feeling has no bearing on either what we've witnessed & fixed here from PSA, or the actual shortcomings of the designs that they've sold to countless disappointed customers. It's worth noting that no one has claimed here that the barrel is the source of their issues.

However, it is quite common knowledge here that their barrels have long incorporated a far too small gas port into their design. That's not to suggest a bad barrel, that's pointing out poor design. 

Also, we rarely suggest replacing a PSA barrel, and frequently suggest simply drilling up the gas port to a size that's proven to be reliable and adequate.

58 minutes ago, Neptune47 said:

They have a few fellows that shoot competition and we talked over a few fixes. He recombination was to switch over to rifle buffer setup. Just his 2 cents.

Why not just sell a rifle that works correctly off the shelf instead?

1 hour ago, Neptune47 said:

Not knocking what yall are doing here. 

I never felt like you were, I appreciate your candor and your demeanor.

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1 hour ago, Neptune47 said:

 Having some of these same problems I phoned a friend and took him my barrel. They checked it and I went over some of the concerns that I have seen here. The barrel was tested, like to the micron, along with checking the gas port. It was dead on.

Did your friend check the distance from the gas port center to the breech face of an inserted bolt?  Did he find you that PSA drills the gas port in an "in-between" position of Armalite and DPMS-based specs, and they use a regular old AR15 midlength gas tube?  He check that?

If he checked it, just from looking at your barrel, he'd find out that a regular old AR15 gas tube will be too short.  You'll need an Armalite AR-10 Carbine Gas tube in that thing to fix that issue, in which the Armalite AR-10 Carbine gas tube is longer than an AR15 midlength gas tube. 

You're welcome.  Pass that info on to your friend.  I'm sure he knows this already, though, since the have a few fellows that shoot competition.  Like to the micron. :thumbup:

Edited by 98Z5V

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@Red Dog Leader, hopefully, some if this information pertains to you, as @Neptune47 just blindly dove straight into your information here.  If some of his bullshiit doesn't pertain to you, then please just ignore it.  If some of the information helps you, then Good.

These one-hit wonders are fun to handle.  @Neptune47 is one of them - until he decides to post again.  About his competition friends that measure to the micron. 

@Neptune47 - come on back.  All you need to do is back up what you're saying... 

We, here, measure shiit to the micron, too - and then we put the numbers up, so that others can learn.  You're just talkin', with nothing of substance...  There's no meat in your meatloaf, until you spit out details.  The details are what matters.

Edited by 98Z5V

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Here's something for the public.  I don't have anything to do with this website, besides searching for information about companies.  I look for data.  From employees.  You wanna find out something about a company?  Search this site, right here - it tells you what the employees think about that particular company that you're searching about...

Make sure you read deep enough about this one - I know, reading sucks...   It'll tell you about your barrel, in this instance.

https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Dc-Machine/reviews

 

Edited by 98Z5V

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8 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

 

Your adjustable gas block will only go "wide-open", and it's not gonna make any more gas flow at wide-open, than that 0.070" gas port will allow.

 

Morning all,

After reading the above, should I just not waste the time/ammo testing the new buffer/spring and take to to the local gunsmith.

One of my 'smiths specializes in building AR's for the local 3 gun shooters at my club.

I'm just not that familiar with disassembly of the  area of the platform.....

thanks again, Red

 

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2 hours ago, Red Dog Leader said:

Morning all,

After reading the above, should I just not waste the time/ammo testing the new buffer/spring and take to to the local gunsmith.

One of my 'smiths specializes in building AR's for the local 3 gun shooters at my club.

I'm just not that familiar with disassembly of the  area of the platform.....

thanks again, Red

 

@Red Dog Leader, that’s fine. We don’t take offense to it. I will state that gas port diameter should be checked after correcting your incorrect buffer and spring

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Thought I'd jump in the pool.  I married a bookkeeper 30 years ago while I was still a wild man youngster.  I bought a bunch of gear without telling my wife or informing her of my decision.  I went in over my head with the spending as most of us do regarding this fun stuff.  To the point,  I tried to bullpoopy my way out of the problem.  The Mrs. was having none of it and slammed the bs session closed with, "  numbers don't lie. "    I had to laugh at that because you really can't argue with facts.  I mean you can argue with the truth,  but the Jack Daniels cost outweighs any seemingly fine quality drunk rationalizing.  Numbers don't lie.  " I heard tell,  my buddy said,  and my cousins friend's uncle witnessed..."  are all terrific starting points,  but the painstaking search for an operable 308 system has been discovered.  It is stated on this site over and over by folks who would be better off selling the info rather than giving it away for free.  It goes against the mind numbing marketing we've all been exposed to,  identify a problem and then sell the cure.  In our case the problem is identified and the cure offered for free which most folks find unnerving.  What's the catch they ask?  Folks there are many people who care for each other and want to do the right thing.  How many times do you go to a range and find folks fiddling when they should be shooting?  Beaucoup mes Amies.  A new guy becomes more frustrated when he should be de-stressing,  ask me how I know?  We may lose another pro 2nd amendment shooter and that's a real price to us all.  It is in our best interests to assist the shooting world.  If it ain't growing then it's shrinking,  nest pas?  I threw in what six years of French lessons taught me,  unless you want to know "Where is the library."

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