308 Lazy Ejection

[billymagg]

In the process of getting my small frame .30 to run, different magazines, springs, buffer's, ammo, once I went to the Lancer mags things began to shake out.. finally the 110's and 135's began to run, the 125's would feed and cycle on occasion,, through this all, I ended setting up two tarps end to end to capture the empties, very nice ejection, and fairly consistent as to where it was going to go...

I decided to get the .308 out when I picked up some 149 gr Winchester White Box, I realized they were just crawling as far as ejection, usually bouncing off the truck hood about 6" to 12" inches and rolling off the front of the hood, it was cycling everything fine, but I realized every thing was lethargic.. so I assummed I'd just open up the gas block, it was about 1/2 way open, opened up my adjustable gas block, and NO real change, the gas port was around .82.  Took my new cheap ass Chinese 3/32" drill bit, and attempted to cut through the "armor tough" around the gas port,,, it took a lot of oil, drilling, and checking, and about 10 minutes to get through that crap detail, but l finally made it, put all the good bits back together and checked my gas block alignment, spot on and clear.. back to the range, and?? no real improvement, would start running about 1/2 open, but further opening up the gas port made no difference. Next I went up to point .098, started to actually get some gas, but still not what I would like to see, I ordered the KAK's heavy 2.5" 5.3 oz Carbine buffer, ejector, spring, and roll pin.. in the meantime, I drilled up to .0995. 

Monday my Heavy Buffer came in, so I installed it, the 40 coil flat wire spring and ran out to the ranch for another range session, much better gas, but still bouncing off the truck hood... so this morning I popped out my old square top with a slight bevel ejector and installed the KAK ejector, I tried to use the new KAK spring its longer and very stiff, and stuck out of the bolt face far enough to make getting the new ejector in difficult... so I put the old spring in with the new ejector, much better function, but still bouncing off the truck hood?

So, I'm going to take it up to .1015, and pull the bolt back down and get that heavy ejector spring in there somehow,  I could live with it now, but its frustrating. I'm hopefull with the longer heavier KAK spring, and a little more gas, it will kick them out like it should... the extractor has a good looking spring and the donut, it is stiff and always, always, pulls them right out of the chamber....

even at .0995, I'm still running my gas block nearly wide open... I've been surprised reading all the threads on 308 ar forum with similar issues, and yes it is very, very wet, it runs amazing, except for weak ejection..and I took apart my adjustable gas block and hosed it out good, no obstructions at all.

Edited February 11, 2021 by billymagg

[98Z5V]

I'm missing something in here, brother.  I'm just not catching it, but I will.  Something is going on between the recoil system and the gas system, and your gas port is huge for what you're doing.  Go over the barrel configuration again, list it out.  20"rifle gas, 18" rifle gas, gas block journal diameter, whatever.  There's something here that's not working with the other parts.  Before you drill any more, list out the barrel specs, the total gas system specs, and the total recoil system specs.

Oh, and wheredo you think the brass should go?  What's your goal for ejection, like, where are you wanting that brass to land, or thinking it should land?

Edited February 11, 2021 by 98Z5V

[billymagg]

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

I'm missing something in here, brother.  I'm just not catching it, but I will.  Something is going on between the recoil system and the gas system, and your gas port is huge for what you're doing.  Go over the barrel configuration again, list it out.  20"rifle gas, 18" rifle gas, gas block journal diameter, whatever.  There's something here that's not working with the other parts.  Before you drill any more, list out the barrel specs, the total gas system specs, and the total recoil system specs.

Oh, and wheredo you think the brass should go?  What's your goal for ejection, like, where are you wanting that brass to land, or thinking it should land?

Wilson Combat 18" Rifle gas, Wilson .750 adjustable gas block, gas tube is Wilson's 308 rifle tube, slightly longer than AR-15 tube, end of tube slightly past center or cam pin cut-out..

Wilson Combat BCG, ejector replaced with KAK industries rounded ejector this morning, the Wilson is round and square across the end with a light bevel milled around the top.

Extractor as smooth as a baby's butt, metal tapered spring with donut, extractor has worked 100%

Wilson Carbine buffer tube, 7" internal diameter, 40 coil flat wire buffer spring, KAK industries 2.5" 5.3 oz buffer,,, I've got lots of azz, so that will require plenty of gas.

This rifle actually does function 100%, it may have had one or two "stove pipes"?? very early on...

I'd like to see it kick them out at least 3 or 4 ft on a higher angle, ejection is much more positive. The Kak spring was maybe a 1/16" longer than the OEM spring, but I could not get a grip on the ejector to push it home, I need a concave pin punch, as it is, it was a challenge to get it all back together with two hands. 

on a high note 3 of the 4 rounds I fired this afternoon, were .5 MOA.... Winchester M80, Federal 150", and Hornady 150's

The gas block is clean, and it works very well, I'm still running the block wide open??

[98Z5V]

9 minutes ago, billymagg said:

Wilson Combat 18" Rifle gas, Wilson .750 adjustable gas block, gas tube is Wilson's 308 rifle tube, slightly longer than AR-15 tube, end of tube slightly past center or cam pin cut-out..

Wilson Combat BCG, ejector replaced with KAK industries rounded ejector this morning, the Wilson is round and square across the end with a light bevel milled around the top.

Extractor as smooth as a baby's butt, metal tapered spring with donut, extractor has worked 100%

Wilson Carbine buffer tube, 7" internal diameter, 40 coil flat wire buffer spring, KAK industries 2.5" 5.3 oz buffer,,, I've got lots of azz, so that will require plenty of gas.

This rifle actually does function 100%, it may have had one or two "stove pipes"?? very early on...

I'd like to see it kick them out at least 3 or 4 ft on a higher angle, ejection is much more positive. The Kak spring was maybe a 1/16" longer than the OEM spring, but I could not get a grip on the ejector to push it home, I need a concave pin punch, as it is, it was a challenge to get it all back together with two hands. 

on a high note 3 of the 4 rounds I fired this afternoon, were .5 MOA.... Winchester M80, Federal 150", and Hornady 150's

The gas block is clean, and it works very well, I'm still running the block wide open??

Do me a favor, and try out a Sprinco Orange recoil spring.  This one:

https://www.primaryarms.com/sprinco-ar10-orange-extra-power-carbine-buffer-spring

Sprinco's description:

"ORANGE Spring": The ONLY specifically engineered EXTRA POWER Buffer Spring for .308 Carbine Platforms using standard 7" Depth M4 extension tubes and .308 short 2.5" buffers (Including aftermarket "heavy buffers.") You cannot clip coils from any other commercially available buffer spring to yield the proper spring loads for this application, especially in heavily gassed .308 carbine platforms. We started from scratch on this design to provide Operators with a viable alternative to existing OEM and aftermarket offerings. Platforms known to exist using this approach include DPMS, Bushmaster (Post 2010), Remington, CMMG, Mega, SA Defense, Colt 901, Rock River Arms and many others. Color Coded ORANGE.

If it doesn't work for you, I'll buy it from you for evverything that you have to pay for it, PLUS shipping to me.  That's my Money-Back Guarantee. 

[shooterrex]

If you have a vise and a couple of empty 45acp cases they make the ejector install easier. A 45 case fits the bolt head and will collapse the ejector enough to get the roll pin in. The other piece of brass goes over the tail of the bolt. It helps if there are two people. Another set of hands.

[billymagg]

9 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Do me a favor, and try out a Sprinco Orange recoil spring.  This one:

https://www.primaryarms.com/sprinco-ar10-orange-extra-power-carbine-buffer-spring

Sprinco's description:

"ORANGE Spring": The ONLY specifically engineered EXTRA POWER Buffer Spring for .308 Carbine Platforms using standard 7" Depth M4 extension tubes and .308 short 2.5" buffers (Including aftermarket "heavy buffers.") You cannot clip coils from any other commercially available buffer spring to yield the proper spring loads for this application, especially in heavily gassed .308 carbine platforms. We started from scratch on this design to provide Operators with a viable alternative to existing OEM and aftermarket offerings. Platforms known to exist using this approach include DPMS, Bushmaster (Post 2010), Remington, CMMG, Mega, SA Defense, Colt 901, Rock River Arms and many others. Color Coded ORANGE.

If it doesn't work for you, I'll buy it from you for evverything that you have to pay for it, PLUS shipping to me.  That's my Money-Back Guarantee. 

Okie Dokie Chief! are they in stock anywhere at present?

[billymagg]

5 hours ago, shooterrex said:

If you have a vise and a couple of empty 45acp cases they make the ejector install easier. A 45 case fits the bolt head and will collapse the ejector enough to get the roll pin in. The other piece of brass goes over the tail of the bolt. It helps if there are two people. Another set of hands.

Great advice Shooter! I will try to get that heavy spring under that ejector! my Grandson from Arizona is on my lap at the moment, and I'm sucking up every minute of him! he's named after my Dad and Donna's Dad, I swear the Lord gave us a supernatural connection! He's my favorite human on the planet and tuned in to the old buzzard!

[billymagg]

10 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Do me a favor, and try out a Sprinco Orange recoil spring.  This one:

https://www.primaryarms.com/sprinco-ar10-orange-extra-power-carbine-buffer-spring

Sprinco's description:

"ORANGE Spring": The ONLY specifically engineered EXTRA POWER Buffer Spring for .308 Carbine Platforms using standard 7" Depth M4 extension tubes and .308 short 2.5" buffers (Including aftermarket "heavy buffers.") You cannot clip coils from any other commercially available buffer spring to yield the proper spring loads for this application, especially in heavily gassed .308 carbine platforms. We started from scratch on this design to provide Operators with a viable alternative to existing OEM and aftermarket offerings. Platforms known to exist using this approach include DPMS, Bushmaster (Post 2010), Remington, CMMG, Mega, SA Defense, Colt 901, Rock River Arms and many others. Color Coded ORANGE.

If it doesn't work for you, I'll buy it from you for evverything that you have to pay for it, PLUS shipping to me.  That's my Money-Back Guarantee. 

One and Done, Primary Arms has it, on its way!

[billymagg]

12 hours ago, shooterrex said:

If you have a vise and a couple of empty 45acp cases they make the ejector install easier. A 45 case fits the bolt head and will collapse the ejector enough to get the roll pin in. The other piece of brass goes over the tail of the bolt. It helps if there are two people. Another set of hands.

That was an awesome piece of advice my friend, I had cut a 308 case and used it on the face of the bolt the other day, and that 45 case held the tail of the bolt in the vice, perfect so much easier to get it apart. Took my gas block roll pin punch, and held the ejector in on the door facing, dropped the pin punch in the hole and back to the vise to press it and drive the pin back in. So that really heavy KAK spring, is under the rounded KAK ejector, so now just waiting on 98's Sprinco Orange Spring,,, (wonder how many of those you have sold 98?? they should really give you a $3 commission on each one Bub... thanks Gent's, Little Miss Wilson says thanks.. I'll be back with a range report soon, second Covid shot tommorow, my main man is back up trying to help me type!

[Rsquared]

You can always try one of these brother. They may seem pricey for what they do, but you only have to buy them once.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/bolt-tools/ejector-tools/ar-style-308-bolt-ejector-tool-sku939000005-72380-77837.aspx

[Albroswift]

+1 on the orange spring in the 7 inch tube.  

[98Z5V]

On 2/11/2021 at 6:43 PM, Rsquared said:

You can always try one of these brother. They may seem pricey for what they do, but you only have to buy them once.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/bolt-tools/ejector-tools/ar-style-308-bolt-ejector-tool-sku939000005-72380-77837.aspx

Eff spending the money on that.  2 spent case of .45ACP do the job perfectly.  One in the bolt face (perfect fit), and one over the end of the bolt tail. Squeeze them together in the vise.  @shooterrex, ain't lyin' when he stated that - we did this on his .308AR bolt at the last Fall Shoot, to change out the ejector.  Does take a minimum of 3 hands, though, and he wasn't lyin' about that part, either... 

[mrmackc]

On 2/11/2021 at 4:27 PM, billymagg said:

That was an awesome piece of advice my friend, I had cut a 308 case and used it on the face of the bolt the other day, and that 45 case held the tail of the bolt in the vice, perfect so much easier to get it apart. Took my gas block roll pin punch, and held the ejector in on the door facing, dropped the pin punch in the hole and back to the vise to press it and drive the pin back in. So that really heavy KAK spring, is under the rounded KAK ejector, so now just waiting on 98's Sprinco Orange Spring,,, (wonder how many of those you have sold 98?? they should really give you a $3 commission on each one Bub... thanks Gent's, Little Miss Wilson says thanks.. I'll be back with a range report soon, second Covid shot tommorow, my main man is back up trying to help me type!

I used a big C clamp some of the time, takes a bit of juggleing.

[unforgiven]

This great piece of kit. Support small https://youngmanufacturing.net/product/bolt-assembly-tool-ar15-bolt-not-included/ business.  

[billymagg]

17 hours ago, Albroswift said:

+1 on the orange spring in the 7 inch tube.  

Yep, hope it gets here soon, I did get the heavy KAK heavy spring under their ejector, I'm working on a buffer spring collection...

[billymagg]

2 hours ago, unforgiven said:

This great piece of kit. Support small https://youngmanufacturing.net/product/bolt-assembly-tool-ar15-bolt-not-included/ business.  

I DO like these tools, I love having the right tool for a job, and jigging that bolt straight is the hot ticket, although pushing the bolt into alignment wasn't all that tough...

[unforgiven]

If you take your time a RRA Lar8 bolt will work. It's almost at the end of plunger length because it's longer than DPMS but you can work on the ejector.

[billymagg]

6 hours ago, unforgiven said:

If you take your time a RRA Lar8 bolt will work. It's almost at the end of plunger length because it's longer than DPMS but you can work on the ejector.

10-4, thanks for all the good advice gentlemen!

[Rsquared]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:43 PM, Rsquared said:

You can always try one of these brother. They may seem pricey for what they do, but you only have to buy them once.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/rifle-tools/bolt-tools/ejector-tools/ar-style-308-bolt-ejector-tool-sku939000005-72380-77837.aspx

OK. So I throw this out, and 98 gives me $hit and says don't spend the dough on something like that.

21 hours ago, 98Z5V said:

Eff spending the money on that.  2 spent case of .45ACP do the job perfectly.  One in the bolt face (perfect fit), and one over the end of the bolt tail. Squeeze them together in the vise.  @shooterrex, ain't lyin' when he stated that - we did this on his .308AR bolt at the last Fall Shoot, to change out the ejector.  Does take a minimum of 3 hands, though, and he wasn't lyin' about that part, either... 

And then this waterhead throws the same $hit out 3 or 4 posts later, and he gets thanked.

11 hours ago, unforgiven said:

This great piece of kit. Support small https://youngmanufacturing.net/product/bolt-assembly-tool-ar15-bolt-not-included/ business.  

 

9 hours ago, billymagg said:

I DO like these tools, I love having the right tool for a job, and jigging that bolt straight is the hot ticket, although pushing the bolt into alignment wasn't all that tough...

What the fuk is up with that?

Fukin Rene. Everybody likes him.

[unforgiven]

My hands are so fuked. Just had them x-rayed and MRI on my neck for a pinched nerve in the summer that's still bothering me. We moved some ductwork on the roof of a high-rise and the roof hatch çame down and hit me in the head. Lucky I saw it and scrunched down and still hung onto the shipped ladder about 20' up. Fukedup the bursus in my neck. 40 of working outside the cold got my hands good. Good time's 🍺🍺🇺🇸

[Rsquared]

OK. So now you're obviously trying to make me feel bad. Fuker! Well I don't.

By the way. I have both of these. In 762 and 556.

[unforgiven]

50 minutes ago, Rsquared said:

OK. So now you're obviously trying to make me feel bad. Fuker! Well I don't.

By the way. I have both of these. In 762 and 556.

That's where I got the idea brother 🍺🍺

[Rsquared]

3 hours ago, Rsquared said:

OK. So now you're obviously trying to make me feel bad. Fuker! Well I don't.

By the way. I have both of these. In 762 and 556.

 

2 hours ago, unforgiven said:

That's where I got the idea brother 🍺🍺

Well.........you just wait Fuker..........I'm gonna show up at your door one day...........and then.........and then........I'm gonna make you drink.....maybe......a whole lot of beer.....maybe.

You just wait...........you'll see.

Mida won't be able to stop me and my bad influence on you.

You'll see.

Fuker!

[unforgiven]

10 hours ago, Rsquared said:

OK. So now you're obviously trying to make me feel bad. Fuker! Well I don't.

By the way. I have both of these. In 762 and 556.

Feelings what's that you heartless bastard  that's why we get along. Same philosophy,fuk them all but 6.🍺🍺🇺🇸 

We need to drink that green and black $hit those girl bartenders were trying to get us toasted on 🤪😵

[98Z5V]

12 hours ago, Rsquared said:

OK. So I throw this out, and 98 gives me $hit and says don't spend the dough on something like that.

And then this waterhead throws the same $hit out 3 or 4 posts later, and he gets thanked.

 

What the fuk is up with that?

Fukin Rene. Everybody likes him.

Damn!   You're still loved brother, and the tool is GREAT!   I'm just sayin'...  if you need to change an ejector right now, or you're only gonna change one ejector - then the .45ACP brass is a WAY easier choice, over waiting for a tool to get to you...