Looking for high quality AR-10

[lew.45]

Hey All, I currently own 2 DPMS .308's the oracle and the lr 24" bull barrell.  I have recently be told that they will not last and that I should look into better quality products.  I am not sure who makes quality AR's.  When it comes to 1911's I am more knowledgable.  I own a couple of Ed Brown 1911's.  I am not trying to start brand wars but please reccomend whose products I should be looking at and why.  I have heard everything from lwrc, lmt, larue and P.O.F.. Please help me out with some quality insight.  Thanks, Lew.

[edgecrusher]

lew, i think without buying a whole new gun you can upgrade what you have if you are willing. it'll be cheaper in the long run and maybe you'll get more enjoyment from it. i will not, repeat not sway you from buying a high quality item, but you can improve what you have if you aren't happy. first off, i have a 20" larue, possibly the best gun in the .308 ar universe (slightly embellished….. or not.) it shoots 3/8 moa on the days i do my part.

but.

now i mean this when i say it.

you can make your rifles better. first and maybe the easiest thing you can do is change your triggers. now everyone has a favorite but i recommend geissele. they offer several models to fit your needs. second, if you don't think the performance your getting is good enough, a new match grade barrel by a high quality barrel maker will also give you improvements. fulton, lothar walther, krieger, are all excellent choices. another thing you can do that will help is a free float hand guard.

i don't know how reputable your source was but what will wear out or not last???

[RayGun19]

IMHO, Armalite, LaRue, LMTC

[Robocop1051]

Your "friend" is an idiot, or you are a super badass! Only a super badass will outlast those rifles. If you're not a teir one seal delta recon ninja spy, and possibly just a regular mope like the rest of us.. Feel comfortable that your rifles will lasts just fine.

I do agree that an off the shelf rifle has room for improvement. You have nice rifles now. To say you need nicer rifles would be as lame as telling a Corvette owner he needs a Ferrari.

Now if you want a LWRC or a JP or an OBR or any of the top shelf "semi-custom" rifles, I would be the last guy to stand in your way. They are all great rifles. I totally agree with edgecrusher in the fact that you could make your existing rifles that great at a fraction of the cost of a new rifle. If you have +$3000 for one of these rifles, then do it. If not, then....

The 24" bull barrel rifle. A trigger job, maybe have the barrel threaded for a brake, add an adjustable stock... Done. It won't be "tacti-cool" but it will make jagged holes in paper far far away.

The Oracle is a pretty "meat an potatoes" rifle. It's plenty good as is, but you can still do a lot to it. Put a low profile gas block on, slide a free float rail system over that, maybe replace the hider with a compensator, upgrade the stock and grip, drop in a new trigger... If you really want to get fancy upgrade to a flat wire buffer spring and a carrier weight system. All those upgrades combined are less than $1,000.... Which is a third the cost of a new rifle.

[Jgun]

As the other posters have said, there is no reason to believe that a DPMS .308 AR is going to wear out any faster than one of the other brand rifles. Understand that, the receiver whether made using, 6061, or 7075 aluminum, forged or billet, should last as long as you. Now parts like barrels, springs, etc, will wear out on any gun, although the "wear" parts on higher end guns may last somewhat longer. i don't know what you want the gun to do, but if longevity/durability are your priorities, you would do well to have a chrome lined barrel. I have been led to understand (but have not as of yet tested for myself) that the treatments, such as melonite and fail zero, can add greatly to the life of some of your consumable components, but you have to be careful to use the proper treatment in the correct application, and pay attention to compatibility with other components. I have heard that, due to their hardness, the TIN and nickel boron treatments can wear non treated  parts (such as hammers) that the treated parts  are in contact with.  All thing considered, I doubt that the factory stock DPMS .308's will wear out noticeably faster than any similarly barreled, more expensive gun.

[lew.45]

The guy is not a friend.  He is a self proclaimed expert on another forum.  Everyone on the forum respects him so I thought maybe he was right.  However he did claim that anyone who doesn't shoot 10,000 rounds a month has no right to an opinion on AR quality.  I should have known then he was a jerk.  I am actually happy with my DPMS's but this guy claimed that they are not mil-spec and will not last past 5,000 rounds and at that point will be completely trashed. That made me think maybe I should upgrade to a high end product. By the way the DPMS Oracle I have already has a chrome lined barrel.

[survivalshop]

As usual , the above postings, are right . The rifles you have are Quality rifles & don't let the internet arm chair ninjas tell you other wise .

As long as you keep your rifles clean & lubricated , you will be able to give them to your grand children .

Parts ware out in any rifle , can you make your rifle better ? That depends on what you think is better, sure , you could put a more expensive barrel on there , BCG , Rizal dazzle coating or treatment, but that's not saying its going to shoot better than what you have .

As said above , the triggers are the where its at & the person behind them . A good after market trigger will make you & the rifle ,better shooters.

[Jgun]

I don't own a DPMS gun, but I'd bet that many of our members here that do, have exceeded 5K rds. Any DPMS owners (who, unlike me, can speak from personal experience) care to comment on how your guns are holding up? I don't think that there are many people, ANYWHERE, that are putting 10,000 rds a month through a 7.62 AR.  That's over 300 rds a day, every day, for a month. If this guy's saying that within 5,000-10,000 rds he's experienced some type of malfunction with a DPMS platform gun, that's one thing, but to say that the gun is worn out beyond repair seems unlikely. By the way, isn't it generally agreed that most barrels are shot out by 10,000 rds?

[imschur]

I wish I could afford to put 1k per month through these let alone 5k-10k  :o ;D

[RayGun19]

However he did claim that anyone who doesn't shoot 10,000 rounds a month has no right to an opinion on AR quality. 

HOLY CRAP!  10,000 rnds a month???!!!  Hmm, 10,000/month, 300/day, that's $4,300.00/month at $0.43/rnd.  And THAT'S FOR THE CHEAP DIRTY CRAP.  Who the hell has $4500/month and enough time to go shooting that often???  I think your "repected" board member on that "other" board is full of it.

Even when I was on active duty, we were lucky to put 1500-3000 rnds down range in a month.  And that was with a 10-14 hour day of training, plus regular training.  And not all rifle.

I don't think I need to echo what the other guys have said.  I just wanted to comment on the cost/time factor to shoot 10,000 rnds a month.

Spend some bucks on the weapons you have, and enjoy them.  And if you get enough time to shoot even 500/rnds a month, let me know how you do it.  I'll implement your plan.  <laughs>

[imschur]

lastly only Armalite makes an AR-10

[lew.45]

I know that but it's an easy slip like calling all brands of copiers Xerox machines!  I'll try to remember to stop that! lol

[planeflyer21]

As an instructor, the biggest benefit I've seen is from dry-fire practice.

Hone that trigger-sight/scope picture interaction.  Helps when you get to your 10,000 rounds of ammo.

Jon

[imschur]

I know that but it's an easy slip like calling all brands of copiers Xerox machines!  I'll try to remember to stop that! lol

Thanks!! Im really trying to put a stop to this to eliminate some confusion.

[edgecrusher]

so lew, i'd like to know, what is your plan going forward? i hope you plan to keep your rifles and maybe improving them where you find defincies to get exactly what you are looking for. a good trigger is the best start. i'd start there

[lew.45]

Yes, I plan on keeping mr DPMS's!  I will upgrade the triggers but I think that is about it. I already put a VLtor modstock and eotech sight on my oracle.  They both function well for me I even have a hog kill at 50 yards on my Oracle.  Down the road I may buy something more high end but that will just be because I will want too not because I believe what I have is junk!  Thanks for the quality info from all of you.

[Retired JM]

I'm not so snobbish that I'll dismiss DPMS rifles as sub-par. I will say that -IME - DPMS/Bushmaster products tend to have a higher "lemon rate" than other (usually) more expensive brands. I attribute this to poor QA/QC before the rifle ships. Things I have seen:

- Canted FSBs and gas blocks

- Mis-timed flash hiders/flash supressors

- Pinched gas tubes

- Poor or no staking of carrier key screws

- Out of spec roll pins

- Out of spec/rough chambers

- Loose receiver extensions/castle nuts

- Poor quality LPKs - I've seen everything from chipped and sheared hammers, broken triggers, to hammer springs breaking prematurely. 

If your DPMS rifles run reliably and fit your needs and intents - good on ya. Keep driving on and don't let an internet commando tell you what's good or bad - Only you can determine that. And with the amount of aftermarket parts available, you can change out specific items without breaking the bank. It might say "DPMS" on the receiver, but everything else can be completely different.

[MaDuce]

Lew, my suggestion is to take a break from upgrading and spend some time on this forum researching the different options for your guns. Know what you're getting in to before you get in to it. There is no perfect answer to all .308 AR needs. Your upgrades should reflect what it is you wish to get out of your gun. For that, there is no substitute for taking some time to learn and know your way around the .308 AR world before making any decisions.

That all said, you may want to look in to a barrel maker called black hole. I have one of their barrels on my AR-15 and it's performance is exceptional to say the least. I've never fired them but my friend has a couple AR-15s with ASA barrels on them and says they are easily the most accurate barrels he's ever tried.

As far as length goes, unless you plan on keeping your gun primarily a heavy load gun, you may want to stick to a 20 inch barrel. Most standard .308 loads peak in pressure at 20 inches and start to loose pressure and become less stable with longer barrels.

Ultimately you'll want to get a barrel for your preferred load. If it's too long it will wobble a bit and reduce pressure. If it's too short it may not peak in pressure. So either way, a barrel best for one load is going to be limited for another. So choose your barrel length wisely according to your preferred loads.

I like 20 inch because it peaks most standard loads. 18 inch makes very little difference on standard loads but 20 inch is more compatible with the heavier loads when you need them. So basically, 20 inch is great for versatility. Perfect for very little, great for everything.

[KillShot]

The guy who told you that anyone who doesn't shoot 10,000rds a month doesn't have a say in quality/dependability is full of poop...period. As someone else posted, that is spending THOUSANDS of dollars each month on CHEAP ammo. Sounds to me like he's a self important douche bag.

For what it's worth, DPMS will do you fine, but if you're wanting a top-shelf AR-10 then a POF*USA P308 or GAP-10 from G.A. Precision will serve you well. The POF exceeds mil-spec and I'm sure the GAP probably does, too.

10,000rds a month...wish I could find out what forum that guy is on and call him out on his BS.

[planeflyer21]

10K rounds in .22 Long Rifle would be $400.

In .308, if you're lucky, you would be at about $5,000.

Not impossible...if you work at the Mustang Ranch.

Jon

[KillShot]

10K rounds in .22 Long Rifle would be $400.

In .308, if you're lucky, you would be at about $5,000.

Not impossible...if you work at the Mustang Ranch.

Jon

Impossible, no. Improbable, yes. There aren't many people who can afford to blow $5,000/mo on ammo or should I say, there are very few people who would do that.

[planeflyer21]

Of the few people I've known that fired 3,000 to 5,000 a month, all reloaded that ammo, worked for sheriffs' departments here in AZ, and spent consdierable amounts of time on shift in the middle of nowhere, shooting.

Jon