Aero M5 build. Buffer spring options

[ShadowAviator]

Sorry if this has been answered, but I wasn't able to search up the info I wanted yet.   This will be a short post, since I am busy trying to haul hay in the snow.

Aero M5 Upper,Lower, handguard

Aero Carbine enhanced buffer tube (7" I assume, will check this evening)

KAK heavy buffer (2.5", 5-ish oz)

18" BSF 308 barrel, rifle gas

toolcraft BCG

Waiting for paint job to dry, and headspace gauges, so have not shot yet.

Figured the Aero buffer spring would not be the best.  Picked up Tubbs Flatwire for large frame AR.  The spring had the coating flaking off which I wasn't thrilled by.

For my question:

The coating flaking kinda bothers me, plus I see on here where the flatwire spring was not recommended.  So I was thinking EA1095, or Sprinco Orange. 

However, during my reading, I see where people have had trouble with the CS springs rusting, so I has wondering if there was a good stainless option for the buffer spring? 

I am not too familiar with the EA1095 spring, is it stainless or something more corrosion resistant that CS?  Would it be okay in a 7" receiver extension?

This will be more of a hunting/target rifle, which wont see a super high round count.

 

[shooterrex]

Springco orange.

The Armalite spring is made for a longer buffer tube.

[98Z5V]

6 hours ago, ShadowAviator said:

Aero Carbine enhanced buffer tube (7" I assume, will check this evening)

KAK heavy buffer (2.5", 5-ish oz)

 

6 hours ago, ShadowAviator said:

The coating flaking kinda bothers me, plus I see on here where the flatwire spring was not recommended.  So I was thinking EA1095, or Sprinco Orange. 

 

5 hours ago, shooterrex said:

Springco orange.

^^^  What he said.  Here's what's on Sprinco's website:

Extra Extra Power Buffer Spring. The Orange spring is much stouter than the Red spring. The Orange buffer spring was originally engineered for the demands presented by.308 / 6.5 CM / .260 Rem, etc., heavy BCG carbine DPMS Pattern applications using standard 7" Depth M4 extension tubes and short 2.5" buffers (Including aftermarket "heavy buffers") in robustly gassed 16” - 18” ML gas carbine platforms, but has been proven to be a requirement for tuning over gassed carbines of any equivalent heavy calibers in AR-10 pattern tubes with 3.25" buffers or lesser calibers (5.56, etc.). Color Coded ORANGE.

Nobody else on the market makes a spring specifically for the 7" receiver extensions and short 2.500" buffers for the large frames.

EA-1095 and the Sprinco Red are direct equivalents, and function great in large frame rifle recoil systems, and carbine systems with the 7 5/8" internal depth carbine extensions running 3.250" buffers, as well as running in the rifle recoil extensions (9 11/16" internal) running 5.200" long large-frame rifle buffers. 

Sprinco Red works great in my 9mm PCC, too.  7.000" internal carbine extension, Sprike's 8oz longass pistol buffer.  I haven't tried the EA-1095 in it yet, but I will.  Just to confirm it.  Right now, it eats anything you throw in it, suppressed or unsuppressed. 

[ShadowAviator]

Did a little checking and my Tubbs spring is stainless and the coating is a dry lube of some sort, I believe.  I might give it a go for now.

Some don't recommend the flatwire springs.  Why is that?

[98Z5V]

1 minute ago, ShadowAviator said:

Did a little checking and my Tubbs spring is stainless and the coating is a dry lube of some sort, I believe.  I might give it a go for now.

Some don't recommend the flatwire springs.  Why is that?

I've never tried the flat wires. Have no input on them.  My rationale is simple  - Don't complicate shiit with complicated shiit.  Don't need anything fancy, bougie, or anything else - just use what works, every time.  I only recommend and use what I've seen that works, and it works.

That's my $0.02.

[jtallen83]

7 hours ago, ShadowAviator said:

Some don't recommend the flatwire springs.  Why is that?

I've used Tubbs and Strike industries and never had an issue. The LGS was building uppers for those .458 caliber wildcats  on a large frame, they were having function issues with the aero lowers, they added a Tubbs and they ran, correct fix would have been some weight in the buffer but the flat wire had to have added some resistance. I have not wore one out yet.

[Albroswift]

I ran a Tubs in one of my 308's w/ 7-5/8 tube, worked fine but a pain to get the whole thing stuffed into the extension. won't work with a 2-1/2" buffer, almost 3-1/4" fully compressed. Sprinco red or EA1095 as stated above is the gold standard. 

[ShadowAviator]

1 hour ago, Albroswift said:

I ran a Tubs in one of my 308's w/ 7-5/8 tube, worked fine but a pain to get the whole thing stuffed into the extension. won't work with a 2-1/2" buffer, almost 3-1/4" fully compressed. Sprinco red or EA1095 as stated above is the gold standard. 

I will have to measure my spring.  I know I can lock the bolt back with my Tubbs spring, so the one I have appears to work with the 2.5" buffer.

[jtallen83]

22 minutes ago, ShadowAviator said:

one I have appears to work with the 2.5" buffer.

What I have as well, three of them first hand, one mine, couldn't talk any of them into switching to the proper Armalite system, LGS had already sold the spring to them, I just like to experiment for myself, I've never actually put a flat wire spring on a build list beyond a low power one for a low mass race gun build but if it's what's on the shelf and I need one they have worked fine for me, but always use the Armalite spec system when possible is my advice, it's the gold standard.

[Albroswift]

Maybe they have different variations, site down right now, but for sure my 308 Tubbs spring will not work in a 7" tube/ 2.5" buffer. (Well, almost sure memory ain't what it use to be) Anyway, a solution looking for a problem as some would say. 

 

[Matt.Cross]

On 1/26/2023 at 1:03 AM, ShadowAviator said:

Did a little checking and my Tubbs spring is stainless and the coating is a dry lube of some sort, I believe.  I might give it a go for now.

Some don't recommend the flatwire springs.  Why is that?

I ran a Tubbs flat wound for years with no issues. There's nothing wrong with them. They simply don't work with some other things, like Enidine hydraulic buffers, which also don't work with anything else. My Tubbs flat wound also didn't play well with my heavy buffer, so there's that too. Standard buffer worked like a charm with it, no issues at all.

[ShadowAviator]

25 minutes ago, Matt.Cross said:

I ran a Tubbs flat wound for years with no issues. There's nothing wrong with them. They simply don't work with some other things, like Enidine hydraulic buffers, which also don't work with anything else. My Tubbs flat wound also didn't play well with my heavy buffer, so there's that too. Standard buffer worked like a charm with it, no issues at all.

When you say heavy buffer, do you mean the ~5.4 oz one?

[98Z5V]

5 minutes ago, ShadowAviator said:

When you say heavy buffer, do you mean the ~5.4 oz one?

Nope, the really heavy one from heavybuffers.com.  This one, first on this page, the 10oz one:

https://heavybuffers.com/ar10rifle.html

 

[98Z5V]

8 minutes ago, ShadowAviator said:

Standard buffer worked like a charm with it, no issues at all.

By "standard buffer", he's referring to a 5.40z buffer, that should be used in these things from the get-go.

[ShadowAviator]

57 minutes ago, 98Z5V said:

By "standard buffer", he's referring to a 5.40z buffer, that should be used in these things from the get-go.

That's what I was wondering. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[98Z5V]

4 minutes ago, ShadowAviator said:

That's what I was wondering. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Just for clarification, he's not using a 5.4oz buffer.  I shoot with him twice a year, and know his gun, intimately,

1 hour ago, 98Z5V said:

Nope, the really heavy one from heavybuffers.com.  This one, first on this page, the 10oz one:

https://heavybuffers.com/ar10rifle.html

 

He's using this 10oz buffer in his gun. 

[Matt.Cross]

On 1/27/2023 at 12:49 AM, ShadowAviator said:

That's what I was wondering. Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

I probably shouldn't have used the word "standard" so casually, I've come to think of the Armalite recoil spec as the industry standard, as it's what works across the board. However, as Tom has already stated, I'm using Clint's excellent "heavy" buffer, which reduces the recoil impulse to the extent I can follow my shots through the optic.

[jtallen83]

10 hours ago, Matt.Cross said:

My Tubbs flat wound also didn't play well with my heavy buffer

Curios, a mismatch for function or just don't fit together? I'm being lazy here and not checking myself on the fit. Not trying to be a Tubbs fanboy but that is the best option my LGS stocks so if I need one right now that's the one I grab.

[Matt.Cross]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:47 AM, jtallen83 said:

Curios, a mismatch for function or just don't fit together? I'm being lazy here and not checking myself on the fit. Not trying to be a Tubbs fanboy but that is the best option my LGS stocks so if I need one right now that's the one I grab.

it turned out to be a function mismatch in a build that had run thousands of rounds reliably previous to adding the heavy buffer.

simply put, I wouldn't recommend it to complete a functioning gun. however, if somebody already had a functioning gun and they were interested in the flat wound spring, I'd recommend trying it.

 

[ShadowAviator]

Just thought I would post some additional info.

The receiver extension depth seems to measure no more than 7", maybe under 7".  Didn't have a super exact way to measure.

Checked the distance from bolt face to the bolt catch, and appeared to be between 3/16" and 1/8".

Also the gas port size on the BSF barrel appears to be slightly greater than a 3/32" drill bit (0.09375).  7/64" drill but would not fit, so I would assume its close to 0.096".

 

[ShadowAviator]

Forgot to add that the gasblock diameter is 0.875".

[98Z5V]

On 1/25/2023 at 12:23 PM, ShadowAviator said:

18" BSF 308 barrel, rifle gas

 

19 hours ago, ShadowAviator said:

Also the gas port size on the BSF barrel appears to be slightly greater than a 3/32" drill bit (0.09375).  7/64" drill but would not fit, so I would assume its close to 0.096".

 

19 hours ago, ShadowAviator said:

Forgot to add that the gasblock diameter is 0.875".

18' rifle gas .308 Win barrels with 0.750" journals need 0.095" minimum to run, sometimes larger, up to 0.098" that I've seen.  You're running the barrel that has the 0.875" journal, so you'll need 0.090" minimum, maybe a touch higher. 

I think you're there.  Shoot the gun.  As long as you have the recoil system straight, it should work right.  If your recoil system isn't fixed, as stated here in the thread, then don't even shoot the gun - fix the recoil system first, as described above.  After that - let us know how it does. 

[ShadowAviator]

I think everything looks good. The Tubbs spring should work, the buffer weight seems appropriate, everything measures out okay.

 

Now I just need to find and shoot the crappiest ammo I can find, and then come back here to complain about it not working.

[dpete]

21 minutes ago, ShadowAviator said:

 

 

Now I just need to find and shoot the crappiest ammo I can find, and then come back here to complain about it not working.

Sarcasm and snark are strong in this one!

[98Z5V]

22 minutes ago, ShadowAviator said:

The Tubbs spring should work

This is the only thing standing on your way of "what we've figured out as a Standard" to making these things run.  The only thing.

If your gun doesn't run - replace the spring with one of the known good springs we'e mentioned, and try again. 

1 minute ago, dpete said:

Sarcasm and snark are strong in this one!

He gets it...