gnatshooter Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Friends, You may have read about my unfortunate experience with putting a muzzle brake on my DPMS LR 308T and running it without ear protection. (It will be a hunting rifle this winter and I'll be working the woods with my ears out.) Well, after removing the brake, I was still wondering what might be done about the recoil. I came across a product called the "Enidine AR-10/.308 AR-Restor Hydraulic Recoil Buffer Full Stock", which you can find at http://bit.ly/13nnggv The theory looks good, and the claims for it are great, too. Oh, if only we could all believe everything out there on the web. Looking for reviews on the hydraulic buffer, I came across this YouTube video comparing it to the standard buffer. http://bit.ly/14TJ6n6 Sure wish more people would do comparisons like this. It looks like the hydraulic buffer might be just as effective as a muzzle brake. Has anyone here tried the hydraulic buffer on the DPMS 308? What did you think? I don't want to waste $100 -- about what I already wasted on a muzzle brake. Edited July 4, 2013 by gnatshooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 2 things on that particular one. Made for AR15, and made to replace full length rifle units. I don't know how well it might hold up or whether it will work all that well in the 308 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Food for thought. I had the Enidine hydraulic buffer in my .308 and it worked fine. I now have a stainless/tungsten heavy buffer (CAR-10) from www.heavybuffers.com. I use the heavy buffer exclusively now. I sold the hydraulic buffer long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 I've tried the hydraulic buffer as well. It introduced malfunctions into a weapon that functions perfectly absent only the hydraulic buffer. I've held onto it only because I want to test it's function with a suppressor in the system. If you really want to try one I'd gladly ship it for trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Food for thought. I had the Enidine hydraulic buffer in my .308 and it worked fine. I now have a stainless/tungsten heavy buffer (CAR-10) from www.heavybuffers.com. I use the heavy buffer exclusively now. I sold the hydraulic buffer long ago. You're right, that is food for thought. Hmm... Does that mean the heavy buffer works better than the hydraulic unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Seems like I read somewhere that cold weather has an adverse affect on it, IF that's true I wouldn't consider it for hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 General opinion is that the heavy buffers work a bit better for the casual shooter. The way I understand it, the hydraulic buffers were originally designed for suppressed, full-auto fire. Since I shoot neither suppressed, nor full-auto, I didn't feel I gained enough benefits to continue use. Only one person on this site has ever voiced a problem with a heavy buffer. He was having a lot more issues than his buffer though (CMMG issues if I remember correctly). I definitely wouldn't let one misguided review dissuade my decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 A match trigger, a BattleComp BABC and a heavy buffer are the first three upgrades I think a person should do to his rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Seems like I read somewhere that cold weather has an adverse affect on it, IF that's true I wouldn't consider it for hunting. It makes sense... if the hydraulic oil gets cold, it could get thicker and not work as well. Same thing happens with the shocks on your car. Although, it has to get pretty darn cold to notice the shocks are stiff. But yeah, for a hunting rifle, it's not something you want to worry about. I suppose the hydro buffer is probably lighter than the heavy buffer, too -- just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 The hydraulic buffer is lighter. I think the hydraulic buffer is near the same weight as a standard buffer. If the hydraulic fails, it doesn't effect anything. It just becomes a very expensive, regular buffer. Besides that, it's gotta be DAMNED cold to be an influence on hydraulic fluid. I have to question the sanity of anyone hunting in that kind of weather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 The heavy buffer is an awful pricey unit considering, no offense intended, the... complexity of the technology involved. Has anyone ever tried drilling out the middle of one and filling it up with lead shot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Tungsten powder is the preferred medium for home brew heavy buffers from what I've read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Tungsten powder is the preferred medium for home brew heavy buffers from what I've read. Good idea. People have done some experiments, you can read about them here and here, for instance. All of this makes me wonder, if a heavier buffer is better, why doesn't DPMS have heavier buffers installed as original equipment? Are they saving the cost of $3-$4 per rifle? Hardly worth the savings, if the result is a better rifle that will get better reviews from reviewers and owners. Some wise engineering heads decided on the weight of the standard buffer and had reasons for not choosing other weights. Sure would be nice to know what the reasons were. Maybe just lower overall weight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcangel167 Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I run a hydraulic buffer on one of my AR15's (the one pictured in my avatar) from Enidine and have had no issues with it. I noticed the difference after installation, mostly that it shot smoother and got back on target quicker. I'll be running one on my 308 build and hope for the same results, but realize that the difference between a 223 round and 308 will definitely have an impact (no pun intended) on it's performance. Regards, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I'm with Robo on this issue. I run nothing but buffers from heavybuffers.com. Mostly for use with suppressors, but they really make things run smoother when running without the cans. Just an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Diss Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I've never understood the point of a heavy buffer. I always run adjustable gas blocks. I went with a light BCG and a standard .308 buffer. I just turn the gas down. 100% reliable. If you want to reduce felt recoil, you could just as easily add weight to the buttstock or go with a heavy forearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I agree that an adjustable gas block and lightweight BCG and buffer assembly are likely a softer recoil. That being said, even JP Rifles (who probably makes the best damned lightweight system available) does NOT recommend their system for duty/combat use. Instead they use a "full mass" system for anything remotely combat related. If the man who makes it, says it's not 100%, I tend to agree. It may be 99.999%, and that's just not good enough when your life depends it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 I've never understood the point of a heavy buffer. I always run adjustable gas blocks. I went with a light BCG and a standard .308 buffer. I just turn the gas down. 100% reliable. If you want to reduce felt recoil, you could just as easily add weight to the buttstock or go with a heavy forearm. I have to wonder if a heavier buffer might slow down the bolt/carrier and increase the odds of short-stroking. But I'm still learning, that's why I started this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 I run heavy buffers and adjustable blocks on all of my 10's. Yes, you can adjust the gas down to a point, but then you run the risk of not having enough cycling "Hmmmphhh". With the heavy buffer, you still get enough power out of the action of the gas system, to cycle the carrier, while smoothing it out utilizing the buffer. All of my 10's run smoothly.....while not wearing out your shoulder.......even suppressed. I suppose that this topic will end up just like any other "opinion based" theory. It all comes down to what works for the individual. What may work for one, doesn't necessarily work for another. where'd I leave my beer at before sitting down to type this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 If short stroking were an issue, I doubt there would be such a resounding fellowship of support for the product on this site. Like I said... I owned both... Used both in the same rifle... Now I own one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 If short stroking were an issue, I doubt there would be such a resounding fellowship of support for the product on this site. ^^^ Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatshooter Posted July 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 I suppose that this topic will end up just like any other "opinion based" theory. It all comes down to what works for the individual. What may work for one, doesn't necessarily work for another. So, in your opinion, why do rifle makers ship rifles with light buffers when most agree that heavy buffers are better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 Reliability , expense , take your pick . Heavy buffers don't work in some AR rifles . Depends on a couple of factors . They have tested & this is what works . Now that doesn't mean you can't tweak them , to make them function better( reduce the pounding the components take ) or lessen recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robocop1051 Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 It's the same reason why car companies have an "economy" option. Not everyone wants to drop the $$$ for a GT500 Cobra, when they are perfectly fine driving a V6 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted July 6, 2013 Report Share Posted July 6, 2013 That's pretty much where I was gonna go with my answer Rob. Manufacture's pretty much put out products that work and function reliably (not counting CMMG <laughs>) It's the aftermarkets, just as with car parts, that people use to tweak and tune their individual equipment. And, just as with car parts, everybody has opinions on which ones are made, and work the best. And to keep with the automotive analogy...........performance equals $$$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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