44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 So I'm looking around and I don't see any other vice blocks except the DPMS "panther claw" (and the $200 Geissele rod, but I'm not gonna pay $200). Am I missing some choices? Did a search here but didn't turn anything up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 What platform ? 308 ? 5.56 ? etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 .308; I'm pretty well set for 5.56 tools. Was hoping to find a clamshell vice block like I have for 5.56 but I just don't see it. I do see that I should have posted this under the "tools" section. Mod: please move if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Actually, now that I see there is a "tool" section, I see there are already threads about this topic. Not sure why my search didn't turn them up. /thread closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 All you need is the claw .....rod? thats what they slide up ur azz for 200 bills,,,lol :) Wash http://www.jsesurplus.com/dpms308pantherreceiverclaw.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 So I'm looking around and I don't see any other vice blocks except the DPMS "panther claw" (and the $200 Geissele rod, but I'm not gonna pay $200). Am I missing some choices? Did a search here but didn't turn anything up. Forget the Geissele AR10/SR25 reaction rod and get the Knight's one instead for only $81.25. That's what I use and Boltcarrier.com has excellent service! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I had looked at that, but was concerned about compatibility: We're found that it is not compatible with standard AR-15 barrel extensions with square lugs. Only works with KAC barrels. For a similar product for standard AR-15 pattern guns, try the Geissele Reaction Rod. Wasn't sure it would work with my non-KAC rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 (edited) Dave you just dont need that rod....the clam shell/claw will do you right..i went and read bout that rod...the tester said it prevented flex of the receiver at 1oo lbs torque....if you are at 100lbs torque..you are over the limit anyway....I've always used the claw,,,,it works everytime...dont waste ur money :) Wash Edited February 12, 2014 by washguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I had looked at that, but was concerned about compatibility: Wasn't sure it would work with my non-KAC rifle. It works on all .308 ARs. It's better to use a tool that locks into the barrel extension because no torque is placed on the barrel indexing pin that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 I'm going with the KAC tool then (sorry Wash). I specifically wanted to avoid the Claw, and no one seems to make clam shell types. Very interested in these rod type tools anyway; Geissele would have been a no brainer if it hadn't cost so freaking much, don't understand why it would cost that much more than the 5.56 rod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 44 lemme know how it works for you :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 44 lemme know how it works for you :) Wash For the price it better give me a reach around while it goes up my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 don't understand why it would cost that much more than the 5.56 rod.Probably because the demand/volume of the .308 one isn't half of what the AR-15 one is. Knight's can probably keep their cost lower since it works with .308ARs and their SR-15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wait a second here. Are you trying to being logic and reason to my discussion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 All you need is the claw .....rod? thats what they slide up ur azz for 200 bills,,,lol :) Washhttp://www.jsesurplus.com/dpms308pantherreceiverclaw.aspx 44 like I said in my first post Ha you will get this...not a reach around...lol my quizzical mind wants to know why you dont want the claw? at proper torque value you wouldn't flex your upper .....the barrel nut is very close to the position of the end of the claw...and the claw holds the upper firmly in position inside the upper :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt.Cross Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 Wait a second here. Are you trying to being logic and reason to my discussion? It's either that or derail it by commenting on whether or not clowns are scary... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted February 12, 2014 Report Share Posted February 12, 2014 This ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Are you looking to remove or install barrels ? If so, the Knights tool Reads it is designed for install & replacing " Muzzle Devices " . As far as these tools that lock on to the Barrel extension , what's the difference between them & attaching or removing a barrel with " Vice Blocks " ? As far as barrel work. The same problems with potential Upper Receiver Tweaking , using the Vice blocks or a tool that attaches to the Barrel extension ? Same thing can happen . As far as removing/installing a Muzzle Device , clamping the barrel in some way , is the only safe way to do it . Edited February 13, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) 44 here's some info This is not the optimal method of securing upper receiver for any work where the barrel nut is involved. Contrary to author's claims, it DOES put additional stress on the receiver extension index pin and the upper itself when the barrel nut is tightened. Think about it: you are fastening the barrel nut to the upper receiver. These are the two parts that torque needs to be applied to for that nut tightening action to occur. If you don't use the traditional method (the upper receiver clamped in the vice using a receiver block), and instead fix the barrel extension in the vice by using this tool, then the barrel extension would have to transfer full torque that you apply to the barrel nut wrench (up to 80 ft-lbs) to the upper receiver through that little index pin and square notch cut in the receiver (made of aluminum alloy)! Not a good idea. This simply CAN'T HAPPEN HAPPEN when using the traditional method (upper receiver clamped in a action block) as there is very little to no torque applied to that pin when tightening the barrel nut. All interaction is between the upper receiver and the barrel nut, the barrel extension simply sits in between. Yes you might mar the finish. Oh the tragedy. This "reaction rod" could be suitable for working with muzzle devices though: it would put zero torque on that pin when you tighten the muzzle brake. But clamping the barrel in a barrel block works just as well. Or stepping on the FSB, for that matter ;) and this: RocketScientist thatguy • a year ago − Cthulhu is correct. The Geissele website can say whatever it likes, the simple laws of mechanics say otherwise. Drawing a free-body-diagram of the three-member system comprising the barrel/extension, the reciever, and the barrel nut make what Cthulhu is saying clearly true. An attempt to describe the relationship in wirting: As you apply torque to the barrel nut, it attempts to rotate and once snugged up this angular (rotational) motion is resisted (via the engaging threads) by the upper receiver. If the receiver is instilled in a typical clamshell vise block, the applied torque is transferred through the receiver into the vise-block, to the vise, to the workbench, etc. If instead the Geissele Reaction Rod is used, the torque must be transferred from the receiver to the receiver index pin on the barrel extension, to the Reaction Rod, to the vise, etc. In the first instance (using the common clamshell vise block) the barrel/extension see no torque (and hence no stress applied to the receiver index pin) and is simply compressed between the receiver and the barrel nut. When using the Reaction Rod, ALL off the torque passes through the barrell/extension, placing significant shear stress on the pin and tear-out stresses on the cutout in the receiver. Conversely, when applying torque to the barrel itself (muzzle device installation, etc) using a clamshell vise-block puts the stress through the index pin, while using the Reaction Rod would keep it stress free. and I dont want anything locking into my new chamber unless its the new bolt that is going to be used with that chamber :) Wash Edited February 13, 2014 by washguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
44Dave Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I've read many pages of forum debate on this type of tool. I've read enough opinions that I am willing to take the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolndie7 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 44 here's some info This is not the optimal method of securing upper receiver for any work where the barrel nut is involved. Contrary to author's claims, it DOES put additional stress on the receiver extension index pin and the upper itself when the barrel nut is tightened. Think about it: you are fastening the barrel nut to the upper receiver. These are the two parts that torque needs to be applied to for that nut tightening action to occur. If you don't use the traditional method (the upper receiver clamped in the vice using a receiver block), and instead fix the barrel extension in the vice by using this tool, then the barrel extension would have to transfer full torque that you apply to the barrel nut wrench (up to 80 ft-lbs) to the upper receiver through that little index pin and square notch cut in the receiver (made of aluminum alloy)! Not a good idea. This simply CAN'T HAPPEN HAPPEN when using the traditional method (upper receiver clamped in a action block) as there is very little to no torque applied to that pin when tightening the barrel nut. All interaction is between the upper receiver and the barrel nut, the barrel extension simply sits in between. Yes you might mar the finish. Oh the tragedy. This "reaction rod" could be suitable for working with muzzle devices though: it would put zero torque on that pin when you tighten the muzzle brake. But clamping the barrel in a barrel block works just as well. Or stepping on the FSB, for that matter ;) and this: RocketScientist thatguy • a year ago − Cthulhu is correct. The Geissele website can say whatever it likes, the simple laws of mechanics say otherwise. Drawing a free-body-diagram of the three-member system comprising the barrel/extension, the reciever, and the barrel nut make what Cthulhu is saying clearly true. An attempt to describe the relationship in wirting: As you apply torque to the barrel nut, it attempts to rotate and once snugged up this angular (rotational) motion is resisted (via the engaging threads) by the upper receiver. If the receiver is instilled in a typical clamshell vise block, the applied torque is transferred through the receiver into the vise-block, to the vise, to the workbench, etc. If instead the Geissele Reaction Rod is used, the torque must be transferred from the receiver to the receiver index pin on the barrel extension, to the Reaction Rod, to the vise, etc. In the first instance (using the common clamshell vise block) the barrel/extension see no torque (and hence no stress applied to the receiver index pin) and is simply compressed between the receiver and the barrel nut. When using the Reaction Rod, ALL off the torque passes through the barrell/extension, placing significant shear stress on the pin and tear-out stresses on the cutout in the receiver. Conversely, when applying torque to the barrel itself (muzzle device installation, etc) using a clamshell vise-block puts the stress through the index pin, while using the Reaction Rod would keep it stress free. and I dont want anything locking into my new chamber unless its the new bolt that is going to be used with that chamber :) Wash You took the words out of my mouth. Its very simple if you think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 The stress on the cutout for the barrel pin was the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw these rods. The second thing was the piece of metal shoved into my shiny chamber and torqued on. Probably not an issue either way if you do things "correctly" but I am a disciple of the church of big fkn hammer, so probably not a good option for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyEJL Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 yeah, I seriously see far more likelihood of harm using these. Granted 30-80 ftlbs isn't really a ton, but still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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