Is Hornady load data conservative?

[.308LiteHunter]

My hunting load is 155Amax on top of 43g of R12. Since that powder has been discontinued I need a replacement. I picked up some Varget and IMR4895 from my lgs. 

Looking at the load data in the Hornady manual the ranges are

 

Varget.       35.9-42.6 and 37.6-41.8 (service rifle)

IMR 4895. 37.7-43 and 37.6-42.2 (service rifle)

 

This data was obtained over the phone from a friend's manual, not sure what edition.

 

Ive checked other manuals and for 150-155g projos the max loads seem to be higher.

 

I'm pretty sure my gun will like these loaded toward the upper end of the range but these seem to low.

 

What am I missing? Or this old data?

[shibiwan]

I did 41.7gr of Varget with 168gr A-MAX, straight out of the Hornady book (standard 308 Win) and my primers showed some cratering. I backed it off a little bit, down to 41.2gr and gonna see if that improves this weekend.

Edited March 15, 2014 by shibiwan

[planeflyer21]

I believe all load data is conservative, as are the scales on volumetric powder dispensers.  

 

Lawyers run the show these days.

[survivalshop]

  All loading Data , as said above is & as far as Max loadings , is on the conservative side . There load data is just for reference for starting loads , every barrel/chamber will give some what different results , as would different manufacturers bullets . They may be close , but some bullets because of there make up ( jacket thickness ,lead core hardness ect.) ,can give different results in pressure ,velocity & grouping on target. This may be the reason of different published data for the same weight bullet from different manufacturers, they test there bullets with the various powders.

 

  So you use published data as a guide & experiment with loadings , safely , of course . In my experience , max loadings , have not been the most accurate in my rifles. Nor do they produce the best ES & SD on the Chronograph, which produce the most consistent ammo.

[.308LiteHunter]

 

  So you use published data as a guide & experiment with loadings , safely , of course . In my experience , max loadings , have not been the most accurate in my rifles. Nor do they produce the best ES & SD on the Chronograph, which produce the most consistent ammo.

 

Where would you start, if using the load data given above? 

 

I was thinking of loading a few groups of 39.5-40.5-41.5 and going from there.

[survivalshop]

   Start low & work your way up in small increments & only a few reloads in each weight , so if there is one that shows high pressure signs , you have less bullets to pull . <thumbsup>   

    Nice if you have a Chronograph available .

 

I would stay with in there published data &  see how they work & shoot. . Its all about consistency . You can experiment outside there parameters when you have an established load .

Edited March 16, 2014 by survivalshop

[Tripledeuce]

   Work up loads in NO MORE than 1/2 grain increments!   One grain is to much of a difference.

   Benchresters work up in .3 loasd, and refine from there.

    Respectfull

   Terry

[planeflyer21]

   Work up loads in NO MORE than 1/2 grain increments!   One grain is to much of a difference.

   Benchresters work up in .3 loasd, and refine from there.

    Respectfull

   Terry

 

I would add, for .308 Winchester.  In other calibers, half a grain difference can be catastrophic.

[.308LiteHunter]

   Work up loads in NO MORE than 1/2 grain increments!   One grain is to much of a difference.

   Benchresters work up in .3 loasd, and refine from there.

    Respectfull

   Terry

 

 

I would add, for .308 Winchester.  In other calibers, half a grain difference can be catastrophic.

 

So you wouldn't use 1 grain increments even if the test loads are still less than the recommended max? Have you come across issues while remaining under max recommendations? 

[Tripledeuce]

  In a word, YES!   But rember, there is a HUGE difference between loading a 17 hornet, and a 50 BMG.

   Also, with a full grain, you might miss "the sweet spot".

   Respectfully

   Terry

Edited March 16, 2014 by Tripledeuce

[N Jensen]

I agree, .3 increments is a waste of time, 1/2 bump up will move the process along much quicker and get the same results.. Use Remington 9 1/2 primers, after firing they look retain a normal shape after firing. I would not use Federal 210 M because of the primer cup is softer and flattens out when the Remington will look normal.. Starting at 40.0 g and 1/2 at a time it would take 10 shots to get to 45.0g, You will see the primer change over the 1/2 g bump and stop when looks a little bad or when you hit the FPS that you want.

 

Federal 210M also prone to slam firing as well, as the bolt hits home the firing pin will also hit the primer. Then goes off before bolt rotates and locks up. NEVER put the round into the chamber and let the bolt slam fwd, M-1 Garand would do it easily, free floating firing pins.

[planeflyer21]

So you wouldn't use 1 grain increments even if the test loads are still less than the recommended max? Have you come across issues while remaining under max recommendations? 

 

  In a word, YES!   But rember, there is a HUGE difference between loading a 17 hornet, and a 50 BMG.

   Also, with a full grain, you might miss "the sweet spot".

   Respectfully

   Terry

 

Yup.  I should have said "Larger case rifle calibers" instead of just .308 loads.  1/2gr in .223 is a much higher percentage of the total load than in .308 caliber.

[Tripledeuce]

   Most loading manules have a little star or dot next to the most accurate load in thier test bbl.

   Again, most are among the lower  limits of the charge ratio.

     I  Usually start i grain under the "manuels best load> Whatever  that is,and try to eliminate excessive wear on the rifle.

    Respectfully

   Terry

Edited March 17, 2014 by Tripledeuce

[Dane Armory]

All this talk about incriments of charge and you are missing the point. The A-max bullet is long and sets deeper in the casing than a regular Hpbt match bullet. Causing a higher pressure.

Just Saying !

[.308LiteHunter]

All this talk about incriments of charge and you are missing the point. The A-max bullet is long and sets deeper in the casing than a regular Hpbt match bullet. Causing a higher pressure.

Just Saying !

 

Good point. Do you think this is why the load data seems lower for the A-max than other bullets of similar grain weight?

[.308LiteHunter]

   Most loading manules have a little star or dot next to the most accurate load in thier test bbl.

   Again, most are among the lower  limits of the charge ratio.

     I  Usually start i grain under the "manuels best load> Whatever  that is,and try to eliminate excessive wear on the rifle.

    Respectfully

   Terry

I've seen this in my Sierra manual, but like I said in the OP I don't have a Hornady manual. I would definitely like to know if they have a most accurate load if anyone would like to share.  <thumbsup>

[shibiwan]

I got a Hornady book and have shot 168gr A-Max and found that the loads were a little on the hot side (one load down from the max load).

[Sisco]

Had a frind run some reload data on Quick Load. For military brass Hornady data is spot on . 42 gr RE15 behind a 175 grain SMK puts you in the "caution " zone. And Hornady was recommending 41.5 grains max. When I used 42 grains I got immediate flattening of the primers for first two shots. Went back and went down to 41 gr. And will be starting from there. 168 grains SMK with 42 gr RE15 showed a good pressure curve with peak right at max, and indeed turned out to be an excellent accurate combination.

[.308LiteHunter]

Thanks for that. I finally picked up a Hornady reloading manual, since I shoot a lot of Hornady, and also since my Dad just bought a 6.5 Creedmoore.

I haven't found any R15 yet, but with IMR 4895 and 4064 the Hornady load data for 155 Amax has been good at 40.5gr. 

 

I ran some 168 FGMM since everyone seems to say they shoot the best in their guns, but mine puked them out all over the place. 

 

Mine shoots the 155s real well and lately I've been loading some 180grain Sierra Pro Hunters that shoot very good. I'm also dialing in some 165grain Interlocks.

 

Maybe I should try something at 175, that's one I haven't tried yet.

Edited July 7, 2014 by .308LiteHunter

[MONTANA308]

I roll a 168SMK in front of 44g of Varget in my gas rifle with a 155 lapua scenars in a bolt gun running 46g of Varget. Haven't tried this load in my gas gun. But im gonna start at 44.5 and work up with the 155s

[98Z5V]

All this talk about incriments of charge and you are missing the point. The A-max bullet is long and sets deeper in the casing than a regular Hpbt match bullet. Causing a higher pressure.

Just Saying !

 

 Same exact situation with the Barnes TSX, brother.  I ended up running an identical load for the 5.56 70gr TSX as my 75/77 loads.  That's a damn long projo.

[Gibbs]

You can find some load data from Hodgon and Alliant online for your loads. 

[Cali_Ed]

Anyone got the numbers for the 178amax?

[Cali_Ed]

So I found a page it seems super low. I know the bullet is longer so does this hold true.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/attachments/f28/5552d1326313832-178gr-amax-308-load-data-help-hornady.jpg

[98Z5V]

^^^  That's from an older version of the Hornady manual, but the data is still good.  9th Edition as 3 more powders listed, but it's the same info for what you have there.

 

The higher you go in bullet weight, the lower your powder charge is.  Is taht what you're talking about?  Low charge weight based on bullet weight?