98Z5V Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 ...because this is bullshiz... http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2014/09/08/teacher-invention-may-keep-kids-safer-at-school/ "The Sleeve" is a waste of time, when a teacher should be engaging targets. It's sad how this has come about, because it's borne of weak people seeking a non-firearm solution. Someone attacking a school is more than worthy of a response with firearms. That's truly the only thing that stops attackers, and it's already proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rsquared Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Right there with you brother. +1 <thumbsup> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 This is one fukked up situation! At the high school were I substitute teach they figured out "Hey, the subs can't lock the classroom door on lockdown drills. they don't have any keys!" Their solution? The janitors put a piece of duct tape across the striker of the door when they open the rooms up for the subs in the morning and leave the door locked! Half of the time the striker slips into the striker plate and you can't open the door from the outside so you can't close up the room at lunchtime and you have to leave the door open during classes because of students going to the restroom. Duct tape! And these people think it's a brilliant idea! Don't even get me started about myself and both of the security personnel at the school being retired cops and unable to carry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamO Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 All I read was the thread title.. All I have to say is "Agreed!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 +4 The only winners here are those making this device.Got a friend that works for Walgreens in a $hitty neighborhood and they cannot defend themselves with anything or risk getting fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 My classroom doors had locks on them and could not use the Sleeve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainTrain Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) I am all for arming teachers (at least those that are willing to be) and I see where this unit (as well as others designed to rapidly secure entryways) has some value when implemented as an overall strategy (along with armed personnel). The issue I see here is that such a unit could be used for an opposite role. Edited September 13, 2014 by StainTrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unforgiven Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 ^^^^ Hostage...barricade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTXshooter Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 Nice idea, What are they going to do about the glass window next to it? Replace it with bullet proof glass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 (edited) Its this easy , make all our schools un-soft targets . Make sure everyone sees armed guards are present at all times that Children are present . I know some are going to say ,the kids will see guns & be scared of the guns , well that BS , they see LE all the time . Make a LE force just for Schools ! There are plenty of ex-military needing jobs . Money , well if you can find millions to see what happens to monkeys getting drunk , they can find it for the protection of our children ! This country seems to be upside down in there thinking , its almost like they want this stuff to happen & in part ,some may benefit from it politicly . Edited September 13, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasprite Posted September 13, 2014 Report Share Posted September 13, 2014 How much force to snap the arms of the closer ::) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Its this easy , make all our schools un-soft targets . Make sure everyone sees armed guards are present at all times that Children are present . I know some are going to say ,the kids will see guns & be scared of the guns , well that BS , they see LE all the time . Make a LE force just for Schools ! There are plenty of ex-military needing jobs . Money , well if you can find millions to see what happens to monkeys getting drunk , they can find it for the protection of our children ! This country seems to be upside down in there thinking , its almost like they want this stuff to happen & in part ,some may benefit from it politicly . We do it for every Embassy, every Politician, every Hollywood Celeb (personaly paid, on their part, I get it). Bloomberg hates guns, but he's got armed security. That's a fucking oxymoron. Or, just a MORON. Bottom line is this - there's lot's of poop that is pretty damn important to protect with guns, but politicos don't think out children are one of those things. They'll BANKROLL all kinds of protection, but they're all the more ready to say that schools are no - NO - place for any kind of firearms or security. Almost every bigger school I have seen in the past 8~10 years now, they have a SRO - "School Resource Officer." Policeman, armed, at school. Why not have MORE of them? They don't even need to come from the Local PD, and tax the hell out of the PD. Make them contractors, as stated above. You won't find a more qualified person to handle an attack on a school, than a retired military member that's been downrange in the last 12 years. That's a pretty big field to pick from - schools can be selective if they want. Qualified applicants are out there... a plenty... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Almost every bigger school I have seen in the past 8~10 years now, they have a SRO - "School Resource Officer." Policeman, armed, at school. Why not have MORE of them? They don't even need to come from the Local PD, and tax the hell out of the PD. Oro Valley, Arizona provides SROs for all publicly-funded schools in their city limits now. When they did the study on cost they found that it would be an additional average of $18/per year/per home owned within their city limits. What we need to do is turn it around on the anti-gunners..."Do it for the children!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seasprite Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Well we finally bypassed some of Nixon's (D) crap with a few vetoes: SCHOOL PROTECTION OFFICERS - 160.665, 571.107, 590.010 to 590.207 This act allows a school district to designate one or more school teachers or administrators as a school protection officer. School protection officers are authorized to carry a concealed firearm or self-defense spray device. This act requires a school board that is seeking to designate a school protection officer to hold a public hearing on the matter. Notice of the hearing must be provided by publication in a newspaper of general circulation in the city or county in which the school district is located at least 15 days before the hearing. The board may meet in a closed meeting to determine whether to allow the school protection officer to carry a concealed firearm or self-defense spray device. The officer must keep the firearm or device under his or her personal control at all times while on school property. Violation of this provision is a Class B misdemeanor and may result in the immediate removal of the officer from the classroom and the commencement of employment termination proceedings. School protection officers have the same power to detain and arrest as any other person would have under current law regarding defense of persons and property. Upon detention, the protection officer must immediately notify school administrators and school resource officers. If the person detained is a student, then the parents of the student must also be immediately notified. Those seeking to be designated as school protection officers must make a request in writing to the superintendent of the school district along with proof of ownership of a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit, if the person is seeking to carry a firearm, and a certificate of completion of a school protection officer training program. The school district must notify the director of the Department of Public Safety of the designation of any school protection officer. The department must make a list of all school protection officers available to all law enforcement agencies. This act requires the Peace Officer Standards and Training Commission to establish standards and curriculum for training of school protection officers. The director of the Department of Public Safety must develop, and make available to all school districts, a list of approved school protection officer training instructors, centers, and programs. In order to attend a school protection officer training program, a person must submit to a criminal history background check and, if the person will carry a firearm, prove he or she has a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit. This provision is similar to a provision of SS/SCS/HB 1539 (2014), the perfected SS/SCS/SB 613, CCS2/SS/SCS/HCS/HB 1439 (2014), SB 603 (2014), SB 744 (2014), HB 1474 (2014), HB 436 (2013), and SB 352 (2013). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I just don't think arming our Teachers is the answer , they are teachers , not LEO's & putting them in this situation is not really fair to them & the Students , even if the Teacher wants to be part of the program, they would be putting a lot on the line for this. Constant training , just to keep up on protocols/weapon handling would be time consuming , well they do have a lot of time off every year though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) alot of teachers keep up that training anyway...and are more than willing to take the responsibility. why not use them? I have several friends at my weekend job who are educators. one is a UA professor who teaches guard and CCW classes on the side. one is a combat vet who teaches 6th grade. those two in particular already break certain rules that could get them fired in the name of safety. why not make them legit? im willing to bet there are people of similar mindset everywhere. Edited September 14, 2014 by blue109 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 I just don't think arming our Teachers is the answer , they are teachers , not LEO's & putting them in this situation is not really fair to them & the Students , even if the Teacher wants to be part of the program, they would be putting a lot on the line for this. Constant training , just to keep up on protocols/weapon handling would be time consuming , well they do have a lot of time off every year though . I know some teachers that shoot and are proficient with firearms and tactics that I would trust more than some police officers I've known! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 ^^^ I'm with him. I'm waiting for the mainstream news article about a "teacher" shooting an armed school asssailant. What we'll never see is the real info that the particular teacher in question is a NRA High Master or USPA champion, or something like that. WAY more proficient than any local LEO would be, had the local LEO made it to the scene in time to do anything in the first place... (Not the fault of local LEO response times...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) I see your point , but why let it get to a point that a Teacher has to use deadly force . Its also for show to have armed guards out in the open , on display & on the front line, so to speak. Before the the building can be breached . A better deterrent than , a teacher , that may or may not have combat or LE training or may or may not be where the breach has occurred . I don't put a target shooter in those categories , unless, they to have prior training . Edited September 15, 2014 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I'm all for arming teachers...if they are willing to train train train. Unfortunately, most "gun owners" are still working on the first two boxes of ammo they purchased with their firearm. We gave what was supposed to be a 2 1/2-3 hour seminar on responding to an active shooter, that was pared down to 45 minutes with less than half the staff. Anything remotely related to a violent act against an(some) agressor(s) wasn't to be discussed. That left us with "awareness training". Pay attention, watch the cues, the mood changes, pay attention to the kids and their adults. Report it "We can't do that, as it is a violation of district policies and opens us up for liability." "Well, whatever your policies may be, you had best get it through your proper channels or you may be dealing with an event similar to what we are going to talk about next...actual past incidents." That certainly wasn't the rainbow unicorns and bubblegum farts they wanted to talk about. Stockton, California; Jonesboro, Arkansas; Columbine in Colorado, and Virginia Tech. Most teachers don't want to hear it ("Lalalalalalalalalalala"), let alone prepare for it. After ranting to a friend I grew up with about this, who was raised to shoot and is now a teacher, she was surprised they let us speak at all, let alone for 45 minutes. SROs and the Israeli method...armed parents with a vested interest in stopping attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ^if I'm not mistaken, Israeli parents are disarmed. very restrictive gun laws. all those pics of "civilians" with M16s are just off duty IDF or hired security, and most of those pics show the rifles unloaded using those mag block things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I see your point , but why let it get to a point that a Teacher has to use deadly force . We don't have that choice anymore. It's been brought to our shores, and to our schools. We can't "wish" that away. All we can do now is find a way to mitigate it in the future. We can't prevent it - we can only hope to contain it when it happens. Not my choice, brother, not anyone's choice. It's already here. What to we do NOW?... Fight it. That's what we do. We can ignore it as long as we want, and we can "wish it away" by clicking our heels together three times... We can "want or wish" anything we want, at this point. That doesn't save our kids, in schools. Reality fucking sucks, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 survival...your comment is getting dangerously close to "why let people defend themselves with guns...we need more police" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Teachers need - TRAINING ON - LAW Rockets. I'll train them. Fuckface enters your classroom, hell-bent on killing everyone there, in the classroom. Don't hesitate, blast that motherfucker with the m72A2 LAW Rocket. When he breaches the door, unload right at the doorway. Have your kids back - they need to clear the backblast area. Put those little fuckers in the classroom bathroom, or get under ALL the desks. The backblast on this thing is no joke. Problem solved. Armed attacker enters classroom, gets turned into pink mist. If that's too harsh for public reality then maybe we need to put armed motherfuckers into schools to protect our kids. We do it for out money trucks, which are WAY more important than our kids... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 cmon tom...a LAW is a bad idea for civies. that stupid trigger pad sucks. lets go the extra mile and get them some AT5s. only slightly more complicated to operate, but so much nicer to fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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