American Trigger Corp SR Gold Trigger

[edgecrusher]

way to go roger, now go shoot greg!  <thumbsup>

[392heminut]

way to go roger, mow go shoot greg!  <thumbsup>

Why would he want to shoot Greg? <dontknow>  :cookoo:  <laughs>

[Battle Arms Dev]

Lol, shooting customers = not good business practice  <lmao>

;D

[Gregrachelle]

haha. please don't shoot. i promise ill do better next time.  American trigger also called me with a follow up to make sure everything was ok.  they are a top notch company.  He explained how their trigger is made and why they did it the way they did.  The main difference with the safety function is....  when you turn to safe mode, and the flat part of the cam is now rotating away from the trigger tail..... the round part is supposed to engage the tail of the trigger.  Two things happen,  1 you feel increased resistance, this is due to the round part of the cam actually pushing on the trigger tail which is loaded by spring tension, 2 as the video shows, it actually separates the hammer from the sear.  I think this is a great feature, from what i can see it would be near impossible to get the gun to fire, and there is absolutely no trigger movement due to the tail having positive pressure applied by the safety cam.

Modifications.

So a few things were mentioned about what the instructions say in regards to removing material to make the trigger work better with the safety.  I will try to explain the best i can.

The problem i had, was that in fire mode i did not have enough movement AT and AFTER the point the hammer sear released the hammer. HOWEVER when put into safe mode, the engagement of the trigger tail begin pushed down and the sear being disengaged from the hammer was working perfectly.  i just want everyone to realize that if i was to removed material from the trigger tail, it may have fixed the problem of trigger pull but would have caused a problem with the gun being put into safe mode.

Suggestion. 

when installing this trigger with the safety, first step should be to make sure the sear will disengage properly when being put into safe mode.  If this works then you know you have the right size diameter of safety cam (per ATC there are several different sizes out there depending on manufacture of safety) Second would be to test the trigger to see when the sear releases in relation to when you can't pull the trigger any more.  If you have the problem i had you simply need a safety with a taller notch, or more material removed from the flat section of the safety.

Also, when asking ATC about removing material from the trigger to accommodate different a "out of spec" safety, the concern i have heard was that you will go through the work hardened outer layer, they said "our triggers are "through hardened" which mean hard all the way through.  That is top grade material guys.  ATC truly built an incredible piece and didn't cut any corners on material thats for sure, and the service has been great also from everyone.

Hope this helps <munch>

[imschur]

Thanks for the update

[Battle Arms Dev]

We do not recommend modification of our selector centers, they work with in spec triggers, and almost ALL third party triggers, therefore no fitting is ever necessary, or suggested.

I have no problems with aftermarket triggers, they work better than factory triggers with hard military trigger pull, all of my ARs have Wilson, JP, and Geissele triggers.  I only wish trigger manufacturers would try not to make their triggers so different as to cause tolerance stacking issues.  By definition, any changes made to the trigger will render it "out of spec", also by definition, our selectors are also "out of spec" in that they do differ from factory selectors.  What we take pains to do though, is to ensure critical dimensions STAY in spec.

Tolerance stacking is not uncommon, we've made numerous changes to the selector center so it would be more tolerant.  The most notable changes involve making the flat section wider to accommodate out of spec triggers when Geissele DMR or NM triggers (with very wide trigger tang) are in use, and reducing the center flat's diameter, to the point it is now out of spec, as milspec centers flat section diameter is larger.

[survivalshop]

Lets try to keep the shooting of others out of the discussion .

[Matt.Cross]

Lets try to keep the shooting of others out of the discussion .

I agree on this one. It's all in good fun, but shouldn't become a topic taken lightly.

[soofley]

What's the next best 2 stage trigger after SR gold trigger?  was think WC TTU 2Stage

Will the AR gold work on 308ar rifle?

it appear's that the next stock is coming in on August.

[98Z5V]

What's the next best 2 stage trigger after SR gold trigger? 

After the SR Gold, or before it?  I have a very difficult time between the SR Gold, and the Geissele SSA-E.  Both are very, very comparable, and I don't want to say which one I prefer.  You can't go wrong with either.  <thumbsup>

If someone else here wants to get into the merits of each, or debate the two against each other, then I'll gladly jump into that one.  Bring it.  ;)

If you don't own both, then don't even get in here are argue about stuff "you read."  Talk about what you have, and what you shoot. 

[ipsick]

I'll give it a go.

So although trigger preference is very subjective, I think the thing I  am niggling on the most at this point is the fact that I am paying a lot for investment cast parts (Geissele) as opposed to barstock tool steel (SR Gold).  Also if I were to make comparisons, I'm not sure if SSA-E is appropriate as opposed to a Geissele Hi-Speed which seems more comparable in performance and function.

[98Z5V]

All Geissele triggers are tool steel, brother.  None of them are investment cast, in the least.  <thumbsup>

http://geissele.com/pdfs/TriggerSummarySheet.pdf

EDIT - I was also gone for awhile, right before I struck a deal with you for one of the S3G triggers...  My apologies for that, in many ways.  If you still have that trigger, and still want to let it go, I'll still take it. 

Again, sorry for the months-long response.    :-[

[ipsick]

All Geissele triggers are tool steel, brother.  None of them are investment cast, in the least.  <thumbsup>

http://geissele.com/pdfs/TriggerSummarySheet.pdf

EDIT - I was also gone for awhile, right before I struck a deal with you for one of the S3G triggers...  My apologies for that, in many ways.  If you still have that trigger, and still want to let it go, I'll still take it. 

Again, sorry for the months-long response.    :-[

Straight from the horse's mouth, unless major changes have been made since this post (Doesn't look like it because his triggers still have cast marks):

http://www.m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=65982&postcount=62

sagmill = Bill Geissele = investment cast trigger parts

I get that investment cast is not necessarily inferior but I don't think the cost should equal or exceed high (similar) quality forged or barstock parts. 

*As for the S3G, if you're still interested it is still for sale.  I still have it and it's been sitting with other unused parts this whole time.  No apologies necessary and thanks for the trigger discussion.

[98Z5V]

Strange - that is one awesome writeup on the manufacturing of his triggers, very impressive!  It goes against the info on his website though, in the trigger descriptions.  I was getting my info from that.  I actually like his explanation alot better...  ;D

I'll get ahold of you in the coming week, and go ahead with the S3G purchase - for sure this time.  <thumbsup>

I snatched my G Trigger info off this chart:

[ipsick]

I looked at your chart in the prior post.  However, I believe tool steel can be used in injection molding or casting.  Tool steel just refers to the blend of carbon and steel alloy present in the metal.  Also, you still can't deny the cast marks shown on his trigger parts.

At this point, I really won't argue the quality of G triggers or their capabilities.  Triggers are very subjective and unique to the shooters' preferences.  You might prefer most of Geissele's offerings while I prefer the AR Gold or the JP.  The thing that bothers me now is how much he charges for triggers that use metal made from cheaper processing.  In his m4carbine post he's saying that investment cast saves him up to 50% on steel processing costs.

[soofley]

Well i got my SRgold yesterday. I was playing around with it straight out of the box and i accidentally pressed the trigger then WHAM it it released!

I was like whoooooooooa..... then i realized i wet my pants a lil bit....  ;D <laughs>

I installed in lastnight and it felt great. did you guy's salector switch tightened a little bit with the SRgold(switching from safe/fire)?

[98Z5V]

I installed in lastnight and it felt great. did you guy's salector switch tightened a little bit with the SRgold(switching from safe/fire)?

Yes, it did, even on a BAD-ASS.  Rotating the BAD-ASS into Safe, you contact the trigger safety area.  I could still rotate mine into safe, so I didn't need to modify the trigger.  Seeing how the trigger is a drop-in, also, that's something that you have to refer to the SR Gold instructions about - it's nothing to do with individual parts, in a drop-in, housed trigger group. 

[ipsick]

Has anyone tried adjusting the SR Gold?

Embarrassingly, I must admit that I just completed my 1st 308 AR build (all my comments on the Gold thus far based on my .223 AR Gold) and I've noticed a bit of creep (not confused with 1st stage take-up) in the trigger (creep present in 308 SR but not in 223 AR).

Anyhow, I ended up adjusting the sear engagement (increased I believe,  turning adjustment COUNTER-clockwise) and the creep is now gone.  SR now about as good as AR.  AR still slightly smoother but SR slightly lighter (nearly imperceptible difference).  Just wondering if anyone else had to do this.

ETA:  Well after playing around with the AR Gold adjustments, I think I finally may have it setup how I like.  I've decreased the sear engagement instead of increasing as I've located where what I thought was creep is coming from (more on that later).  I've also figured out how to adjust the over travel as well.

*************

If any of you are curious the adjustments are as follows:

Sear Engagement (Lower Screw) --

Clockwise decreases engagement.  You will realize you have gone too far when the trigger becomes single stage only as the primary sear is no longer engaged and only the secondary intercepting sear is engaged.  Turn screw counter-clockwise and push hammer down to check for primary sear re-engagement.

Overtravel and Pull Weight (Upper screw) **Pact actually says this adjusts sear spring but to me it seems to affect overtravel--

Clockwise reduces overtravel but seems to increase pull weight.  You'll realize you've gone to far when the trigger will no longer release the hammer.  Turn counter-clockwise to re-enable trigger release of the hammer.  Also confirm the reset works when backing off the overtravel adjustment.

**********

Now regarding the creep.  It wasn't necessarily creep at all but hitching at the end of the trigger pull.  What I am/was experiencing is the trigger would require a bit more force to release the hammer during the last few thousandths of the trigger pull.  Getting to that point and breaking the hammer did not make for a smooth trigger pull.  The problem stems from contact between the trigger tail and the selector (BAD-ASS in this case).  This was deduced from email exchanges I am having with Ronin Coleman at Pact.  Currently, I am considering sending it back to Pact to see if can be fixed.  However, I have also contacted Roger at BAD (I was having a loose detent fit issue) and it seems like there have been changes to the BAD-ASS since I first bought it.  From Roger's description, it seems as if the changes may even help me with my AR Gold hitch as the changes relate to dimensions on the selector drum/shaft.  He is sending me the updated shaft.

Besides the AR Gold/BAD-ASS issues I am experiencing, I am writing this post to applaud the EXCELLENT CS I am receiving from Pact and BAD.  They have been superb as far as contact and listening to my concerns.

Will likely comment again when I get everything close to perfect.

[sikocycles]

So this is the trigger is was going to use with my Mega build and was going to use a BAD ambi safety since my fiance is a lefty.

So what is the final word on this?

Will it work or do I need a special one from Battle Arms to make it work?

Thanks

Siko

[ipsick]

So this is the trigger is was going to use with my Mega build and was going to use a BAD ambi safety since my fiance is a lefty.

So what is the final word on this?

Will it work or do I need a special one from Battle Arms to make it work?

Thanks

Siko

I now have two versions from Battle Arms.  An earlier version that worked but made the trigger have a little hitch at the end of the pull and a later version I just received from Roger at Battle Arms that does not work at all.  The later version makes it almost impossible to break the trigger without fully backing out the top screw and it does not function as a safety at all as I am unable to rotate it to safe.  The latter is what user "gregrachelle" seemed to be experiencing.  It seems as if Roger sent me the shaft with the shallower notch and not the deeper notch.  You might want to try and get into a collaborative discussion with Greg and Roger on how they worked around this issue and to see if you can get a shaft that will work.

For myself, although I appreciate Roger's assistance so far, I will work a little more closely with ATC and see what they can do to get it to work for me.  I have a relatively early version of the AR Gold and I believe I had to buy a selector directly from them that would work with their trigger.  Thus far it is the only selector that works perfectly with the AR Gold. I have not tested that selector yet with the SR Gold.

Although I still believe the Gold products to be superior triggers to Geissele, I will have to give it up to Geissele that I am not experiencing these types of issues with the S3G.  I am starting to wonder if anyone is experiencing any issues with the Wilson TTU as that is another design that intrigues me.

[98Z5V]

I'll look into the ATC trigger in my 308, and see what's really going on there, with the BAD-ASS.  I don't have any issues with trigger pull in mine, but putting it on Safe Requires a little extra pressure.  The safety contacts the tail on the trigger, so it's a little more than "normal" pressure to get t into Safe.  It flicks out of Safe just fine - pressure working the other way.  I've just never felt like pulling everything apart to shave the tail on the trigger housing, to clear the safety.

Roger has talked about these issues, with non-standard triggers.  The BAD-ASS is not the issue, rest assured (not a comment aimed at ipsick - just a general comment, for the general population...  <laughs> )

[ipsick]

You're probably right, that the issue lies with the Gold trigger.  As I've said, even my AR Gold has safety fit issues where the only one that would reliably return the hammer to the primary sear from the secondary intercepting sear was a safety that ATC sourced themselves.

The tightness when putting the trigger on safe is partially related to this double sear design.

That being said, I still feel the mechanics of the Gold triggers are still superior to anything that is available.  I'm still hoping that ATC can work up a solution by possibly finding a safety that better fits the trigger.

If not, I will likely open up my considerations to either the Wilson TTU 2-stage or a JP trigger.

[Matt.Cross]

It's worth reiterating that PACT has specifically stated that the SR Gold is manufactured to be modified if the fitment is too tight to the safety lever. They leave extra material on that trigger tang, nothing wrong with doing your own fitment if you feel comfortable doing so.

[98Z5V]

^^^ Yep.  I think they have instructions posted on their website...

[carbon9]

Has anybody tried the Noveske 60 degree safety with the SR Gold yet?