survivalshop Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I know you didn't mean the words " Battle Rifle " , because why would any PD in the USA need a Battle rifle , since they are policing Citizens , but I see your point that they can be used for general purpose rifle . Someone could have talked them into these rifles & since it didn't turn out they way they intended , they don't want to hear about the screw up. You can tell they didn't talk to other SRT's , because they wouldn't have recommended that particular system for the intended purpose of a Sniper rifle. Someone may be butt hurt & doesn't want to hear about it . I also find it strange that thats the best that rifle/Barrel combo can do. I have hand loaded for rifles that the Manufacturer said the same about group size for a normal factory rifle & through my testing I can cut in half the factory published normal group size . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I know you didn't mean the words " Battle Rifle " , because why would any PD in the USA need a Battle rifle , since they are policing Citizens . refreshing to know I wasn't the only one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted March 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 True but they are not using hand loads. I'm not sure the brand but I know its some factory load that they could get the best deal on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 There would be too much liability in using handloads for LE work. I can only imagine the lawsuits now... That's the very reason I only carry factory ammunition in carry-weapons. No handloads. That way, it would never, ever be "another factor" in a trial down the road... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 I know you didn't mean the words " Battle Rifle " , because why would any PD in the USA need a Battle rifle , since they are policing CitizensWell the ACC does stand for "Advanced Combat Carbine"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) There would be too much liability in using handloads for LE work. I can only imagine the lawsuits now... That's the very reason I only carry factory ammunition in carry-weapons. No handloads. That way, it would never, ever be "another factor" in a trial down the road... Using Match/Target bullets ? Doubt it would cause a stir. Besides , if you find a hand load that will work out , it can be duplicated by a Manufacturer . There is nothing in a match or Target ammo that could get you into trouble with a law suite . That went out when LE stopped using FMJ for duty use in their handguns I have no problem carrying hand loads in my carrie pistols . They are tame , compared to what the Critical Defense ammo types are loaded to ,out there . True but they are not using hand loads. I'm not sure the brand but I know its some factory load that they could get the best deal on. That could be part of the problem . I would hope its some kind of Match ammo . . Edited March 22, 2015 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Using Match/Target bullets ? Doubt it would cause a stir. Besides , if you find a hand load that will work out , it can be duplicated by a Manufacturer . There is nothing in a match or Target ammo that could get you into trouble with a law suite . That went out when LE stopped using FMJ for duty use in their handguns . Read up - these are just examples of defensive situations - now imagine it as an offensive situation, conducted by trained law enforcement. The prosecution team would LOVE your handloads... http://www.gundigest.com/gun-blogs/books/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry http://john-ross.net/comments.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 your special custom made paralyzing racist murder bombs!!! I'm with 98 100% on this. buy a box of TAP or gold dots for carry guns. give them one less thing to railroad you with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Z5V Posted March 22, 2015 Report Share Posted March 22, 2015 Just the forensics of it - especially low-power loads. Typical load should travel at "x" speed, cause "x" type of injury at "x" distance, leave "x" amount of powder at "x" distance... Low power loads - just like the example in the article linked above - you cap a shitbag at 7 yards, but the low-power load leaves residue like factory ammo at 20 yards... You say you shot the shitbag at 7 yards. His two buddies say you were arguing at 20 yards, and they weren't approaching you. What does the data say? Can the defense team recreate the situation, with the remaining ammo in your firearm? Nope, you emptied the mag. Now, you go home to grab more ammo - and everything has been confiscated already... You tell them that the load you shot the shitbag with was from "xxx" batch. Prosecution says, "He can create any deadly combination he wants, obviously..." Bottom line, if they push it, is that you're fucked. Stick to factory ammo in carry guns and duty work. One less thing for them to F you in the A with. Besides, you won't look "shady" to the jury - the prosecution is going to try to make you look shady as fuk anyway, you can count on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Well , I'd rather fight , then switch ! <laughs> I will carrie anything I feel will protect my life & I do carrie some Factory ammo , but mix it up with Hard Ball hand loads or vice versa & it has nothing to do with the probability of evidence , one way or the other . <dontknow> Edited March 23, 2015 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Bad Wolf Well im glad we got some Fed money flowing into our state,but I must say on this deal it got misused ....Its always the top of the food chain that has no clue, and buys like a drunken sailor....no offense to sailors....no fault of yours of course, and you are going above and beyond trying to see whats wrong. ill bet you a dollar to a doughnut that most all of our members rifles shoot sub moa ....why not yours?....cause its the wrong piece thats why :) Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 As a former drunken sailor I do take offense to that. When I ran out of money as a drunken sailor, I quit spending...not so with the feds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 Amazing thread, it baffles me how a 3 grand rifle no matter what it's intended purpose will not do better than 1and 1/2 MOA at 100 yards yet my$ 995.00 DPMS 16 inch carbine shoots 1 hole groups at 100 yards...... that is amazing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 lets not forget high end optics and night vision, and the "were not paying for it, taxpayers are" surcharge. say 10k each? not bad for something downgraded to patrol duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaRKle! Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) Amazing thread, it baffles me how a 3 grand rifle no matter what it's intended purpose will not do better than 1and 1/2 MOA at 100 yards yet my$ 995.00 DPMS 16 inch carbine shoots 1 hole groups at 100 yards...... that is amazing...Closer to 4-5 grand... lol Edited March 23, 2015 by FaRKle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted March 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) lets not forget high end optics and night vision, and the "were not paying for it, taxpayers are" surcharge. say 10k each? not bad for something downgraded to patrol duty. You are correct they were approx 10K a piece. What baffles me is why would KAC sell a gun that is only capable of 1/5-2 MOA? My department has never been smooth with its spending. I'm hoping and pretty sure my new AR10 will be a sub MOA gun, that way I can go rub it in their faces, lol. Edited March 23, 2015 by Bad Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKSHEEP Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I'm hoping and pretty sure my new AR10 will be a sub MOA gun, that way I can go rub it in their faces, lol. Right on brother! <thumbsup> >:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue109 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 You are correct they were approx 10K a piece. What baffles me is why would KAC sell a gun that is only capable of 1/5-2 MOA? My department has never been smooth with its spending. I'm hoping and pretty sure my new AR10 will be a sub MOA gun, that way I can go rub it in their faces, lol. because they can and people will still ooh and ahh over the rollmark on the magwell. I have no doubt your build will run circles around a 2moa rifle. the fun part will be getting it out to the range next to them :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planeflyer21 Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 because they can and people will still ooh and ahh over the rollmark on the magwell. I have no doubt your build will run circles around a 2moa rifle. the fun part will be getting it out to the range next to them :D One of our instructors in Ohio had an FFL, got in 3 KACs. We pushed him several times on "What makes this worth three times more?" Just kept repeating "It's a Knight Armament!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
392heminut Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 SS, Tom is dead on with his stance on reloads for LE. Back in the 80's we were told by the state's Risk Management attorneys that we were not to carry handloads for duty use. They said that if they were used in a shooting they basically couldn't defend the use of them. Our department policies forbid the use of anything but factory ammo for duty because of that. I load thousands of rounds every year but, like Tom, I only use factory stuff in any carry gun out of habit and paranoia. Fukin defense attornies will latch onto the use of handloads like a pitbull and do everything they can to turn that against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washguy Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 I dont think we should call em Kac's anymore.......I think KaKa is better :P Wash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 23, 2015 Report Share Posted March 23, 2015 SS, Tom is dead on with his stance on reloads for LE. Back in the 80's we were told by the state's Risk Management attorneys that we were not to carry handloads for duty use. They said that if they were used in a shooting they basically couldn't defend the use of them. Our department policies forbid the use of anything but factory ammo for duty because of that. I load thousands of rounds every year but, like Tom, I only use factory stuff in any carry gun out of habit and paranoia. Fukin defense attornies will latch onto the use of handloads like a pitbull and do everything they can to turn that against you. Just to be sure you know what I was speaking of ,my advice about hand loads had nothing to do what the dept. uses. I was trying to see what the rifles could do with precision ammo , if precision ammo, custom made , could not do any better in these rifles , I would send them both back for a rifle that will at least shoot MOA. I'm not worried about using my hand loads for carrie , at all & if they are going to throw the book at me for defending my or my families lives , so be it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Armory Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 What's wrong with Rangers , HydroShok's ,HST's and Golden Talons ! Any of those will ruin your day if you got hit with one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivalshop Posted March 24, 2015 Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) What's wrong with Rangers , HydroShok's ,HST's and Golden Talons ! Any of those will ruin your day if you got hit with one. Nothing wrong with those ammo types , use them if it suites you . I use 230 gr. FMJ in my carrie weapon & some are WWII era ammo ( yes they work just fine ) & some 230 gr. FMJ Hand Loads . Here's a thought on the Forensic aspics of the WWII Ball ammo , how would they test it or compare it if they don't have any to compare it to ? Edited March 24, 2015 by survivalshop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted March 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2015 We are only allowed to carry soft point or hollow point. Nothing wrong with carrying hand loads per our department SOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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