alternative chamberings

[308lrnewb]

Hey there everyone! So.. I was looking in to an AR45 DI build.. Except, I was looking at the 45super chambering. Then, things ran all amuck. Could not get the velocity I was wanting out of it according to quickload, after playing with plenty of powders.

I am well aware of this wondrous cartridge known as the 45 win mag. Maybe someone else here knows of it.. Well... where to start;

So.. I am able to modify ar15 GI mags into being single stack and holding seven or ten rounds (20rd or 30rd magazines). I like the ballistic advantage the winmag offers over the 45super. But, being 0.300" longer in brass length will assist in many facets.

I realized while investigating that, the 45winmag happens to be very similar in dimensions to the 308/30'06 brass diameters..

Has anyone done a 45 winmag, 45 wildey or 475 wildey on the ar308 platform? The ar308 magazines offer a substantial increase of capacity. I know, the longer and heavier bolt carrier coupled with stiffer springs make issues. Though, with proper timing of gas port locations and buffer mass it should be manageable. Not wanting to get in to the thicket of the sciences.

As for reasoning - Was initially looking at an AR pistol build for competition and hunting use. When packing around the hills and brush, range is limited and a full length rifle is a bit challenging in some ways.

[Robocop1051]

Why not stick with the tried and true .450 or .458.... Or even the .50 Beo?

[MikedaddyH]

Stick on a caliber that will fit into a magazine that exists now ! KISS !!!!!!!!! 

[308lrnewb]

Thanks robocop! I like the input. I forgot all about those chamberings..

Anyone have experience with reloading quality of the 450BM brass by hornady? I know starline does not produce any.. they do the 458 socom but, I think the 450 seems better. Longer length, more velocity.

[shepp]

1 hour ago, 308lrnewb said:

Thanks robocop! I like the input. I forgot all about those chamberings..

Anyone have experience with reloading quality of the 450BM brass by hornady? I know starline does not produce any.. they do the 458 socom but, I think the 450 seems better. Longer length, more velocity.

A member just did a socom build there's a decent thread on it in the black rifle section

[308lrnewb]

http://www.45raptor.com/45RAPTOR/

So... I am not asking who has one - because my bank roll is a bit tight right now.. BUT... anyone heard of this yet?

 

[shepp]

There was talk of it somewhere I just can't seem to find it

[shepp]

Lol I knew I saw it some where

 

 

[308lrnewb]

It goes without saying... I am saving up for an extra mega MKM upper... Going to carry the 308 upper in a backpack while hunting. Use the 45raptor for the humping, the 308 for the distance. This looks pretty slick. Also, looks nice for short rifle bay work when at multi-gun. A quick upper swap and I can cover distance at the next bay. Is anyone else getting a woody over this chambering?

[98Z5V]

I don't understand the rationale of building another upper, only.  At that point, you have 1.5 rifles.  Spend the money on another lower, and you have 2 rifles.  You and a friend can shoot 2 rifles - you and a friend cannot shoot 1.5 rifles at the same time...

[Tripledeuce]

My wife has a 45 raptor.   Its a 460 S&W   Without the rim.   Only problem is finding mags for it.

  Uses the same loading data as the 460 S&W.

   Respectfully

   Terry

[Robocop1051]

Are .308 mags too wide?

[Robocop1051]

The Lancer L5 works so well on heavy bore loads.... I wonder if their L7 would do the same? 

[shepp]

1 hour ago, Tripledeuce said:

My wife has a 45 raptor.   Its a 460 S&W   Without the rim.   Only problem is finding mags for it.

  Uses the same loading data as the 460 S&W.

   Respectfully

   Terry

I had seen that you said she had those parts ordered in that thread I linked but I really didn't wanna dig up that old thread 

[308lrnewb]

That 45raptor uses the same dimensional box magazine. look at the weblink I posted. they simply cut the follower and install a spacer up front allowing hollowpoints to feed.

I want 1.5 rifles because, I am able to carry on a prolonged hike 1.5 rifles much easier in a backpack than I am to sling and drag two. Think of it like this.. one bolt carrier group, one lower, one sling. the lower shares the same box mag platform. how long will it take to remove a backpack, open it.. remove a magazine and upper from bag, utilize the take down pins and swap uppers. Zero is retained for each 'rifle'. Finish with packing away the other upper and magazine.

Far less weight to carry and use. It allows very powerful brush gun usage with an ability to precision shoot out to medium range. Finally, because I can spread half the load onto my back and shoulders it is going to be much less fatiguing than two rifles.

...

I have no friends. ;-) Reason being: 'get yer own damn rifle!' Jokes aside, I am likely to use a standard maten upper with a carbon float tube for the 308. The keymod rail will be for the raptor. Do not really need flashlights for a feral hog on the 308 with the 45raptor doing what it does out to 150 yards easily.

[planeflyer21]

/\/\/\/\ Finally got someone that doesn't give a fat hoot about carrying rifle weight!

Keep on keepin' on!

[shepp]

6 hours ago, planeflyer21 said:

/\/\/\/\ Finally got someone that doesn't give a fat hoot about carrying rifle weight!

Keep on keepin' on!

Run ridges and mountain terrain for a day and that will change. There are guys shaving off tooth brush handles packing it to save ounces, OUNCES!! Every once helps

 

**your always good at catching my miss spelling plane

Edited August 28, 2016 by shepp

[planeflyer21]

Onces?

Manly men carried Garands and a buttload of 8-round clips!

The weight whiners traded scotch for a M-1 Carbine.

[jtallen83]

4 minutes ago, planeflyer21 said:

 

The weight whiners traded scotch for a M-1 Carbine.

What kind of scotch?.......never a fan of that anemic caliber anyway..........

[planeflyer21]

1 minute ago, jtallen83 said:

What kind of scotch?.......never a fan of that anemic caliber anyway..........

What ever they found out in the farm fields and houses.

I'd trade them the Carbine straight across for the Garand anyway.  Better to hit with, better to shoot with, at healthier (to me) distances, making short work of cover like walls and berms.

[survivalshop]

 Same BCG , maybe same type , your betting they Head Space the same ? 

   Why even carry a half rifle , its not about weight , the 308 will do anything you need , so why bother with another caliber , your not gaining anything  . I'd be more inclined to carry other things I would need , more ammo , food , water , shelter , communications , etc.  

 

[beantown]

40 minutes ago, survivalshop said:

 Same BCG , maybe same type , your betting they Head Space the same ? 

   Why even carry a half rifle , its not about weight , the 308 will do anything you need , so why bother with another caliber , your not gaining anything  . I'd be more inclined to carry other things I would need , more ammo , food , water , shelter , communications , etc.  

 

I'm with ya SS. A 168grain GMM should stop anything in North America. I'm confident with my little 16" barreled HBAR LR308 out to 400 yards. I can't see me hunting at longer ranges than that. At my age seeing past 400 yards is a damn challenge any way.

[308lrnewb]

Have any of you checked out the photographs page on the 45raptor webpage? I mean... it seems like none of you are actually looking at what this is.

Why would I want to use a chambering that produces 1/2" holes guaranteed.. that will blow through steel plates and small trees to boot? Never mind it produces more muzzle energy than the 308 winchester? Or.. that it fires fairly flat for it's initial trajectory? Let me think...

Because.. While yes the 308 does produce reasonable results from 200-800yards, it still is not in the same ballpark as a 460S&W magnum from closed chamber in close quarters.

It runs on the ar308 platform. enough said. same box magazines, just modify the follower. It uses the same bolt. A barrel change and modified magazine is all you need. a 20round 308 magazine = 20 rounds of 45raptor (rimless 460 smith wesson magnum). 

It is easier to shoot through brush when fired from short barrels using heavy and large diameter projectiles. Never mind aim, transition and otherwise traverse.

Not only those reasons but.. For the cost to build a second lower, I can have two or three uppers matching my single 'multi-cal' lower. Yea, the extra ten pounds for an upper and a few magazines is extra.. You have very little real-estate consumed when packed properly. Most packing gear will easily fit those shapes, while leaving ample room for 10yards of 550 cord, a few various fire starters, a life straw, multi-tool, carbide dogtag sharpener and three liters of water. Throw in a few bags of jerky and dried goods.. We are not talking a full battle rattle loadout here. My SOC four panel sack still has room for a thermal blanket, small binoculars, collapsing saw and a few other ends. I am pretty positive that is plenty when leaving basecamp.

[308lrnewb]

http://www.45raptor.com/45RAPTOR/performance/

For those of you who still will not read:

Using a 16.0 inch barrel, the following performance has been obtained keeping within the designed pressure specifications of the cartridge and the rifle.

• 200-Grain Hornady FTX = 2650-2850 FPS
• 225-Grain Honorary FTX = 2400-2600 FPS
• 230-Grain Sierra FMJ RN = 2400-2600 FPS
• 240-Grain Hornady XTP MAG = 2400-2600 FPS
• 250-Grain Hornady FTX = 2300-2500 FPS
• 300-Grain Hornady XTP MAG = 2000-2300 FPS

--------------------------

This cartridge is producing 3000lbs+ of energy in most full load settings. 230gr @ 2600fps = ~3400lbs of muzzle energy.

[shepp]

46 minutes ago, 308lrnewb said:

Have any of you checked out the photographs page on the 45raptor webpage? I mean... it seems like none of you are actually looking at what this is.

Why would I want to use a chambering that produces 1/2" holes guaranteed.. that will blow through steel plates and small trees to boot? Never mind it produces more muzzle energy than the 308 winchester? Or.. that it fires fairly flat for it's initial trajectory? Let me think...

Because.. While yes the 308 does produce reasonable results from 200-800yards, it still is not in the same ballpark as a 460S&W magnum from closed chamber in close quarters.

It runs on the ar308 platform. enough said. same box magazines, just modify the follower. It uses the same bolt. A barrel change and modified magazine is all you need. a 20round 308 magazine = 20 rounds of 45raptor (rimless 460 smith wesson magnum). 

It is easier to shoot through brush when fired from short barrels using heavy and large diameter projectiles. Never mind aim, transition and otherwise traverse.

Not only those reasons but.. For the cost to build a second lower, I can have two or three uppers matching my single 'multi-cal' lower. Yea, the extra ten pounds for an upper and a few magazines is extra.. You have very little real-estate consumed when packed properly. Most packing gear will easily fit those shapes, while leaving ample room for 10yards of 550 cord, a few various fire starters, a life straw, multi-tool, carbide dogtag sharpener and three liters of water. Throw in a few bags of jerky and dried goods.. We are not talking a full battle rattle loadout here. My SOC four panel sack still has room for a thermal blanket, small binoculars, collapsing saw and a few other ends. I am pretty positive that is plenty when leaving basecamp.

I've dropped every deer I've very shot in its tracks with a 30 cal round my hunting partner has also. Blowing a big ol hole in an animal isn't practical for harvesting an animal. And you still got to get to base camp. But we've all got our own opinions, good luck!!